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Is the goal now to overwhelm everyone with atrocities and war crimes?

Dans La Lune

Dans La Lune

Do you read Sutter Cane?
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Having lost the moral argument and abandoned any pretense that this isn't a free-for-all mass slaughter, it appears that the goal now is to overwhelm the senses of people (with a conscience) so that we turn away out of sheer mental preservation. Does anyone get the sense that this is happening? I have to admit, it's almost working. I having a hard time staying updated on this stuff.

A fog of outrage begins to cloud my brain when I see incidents like armed 'Humanitarian Relief' cheering that they gun down Palestinians desperate for food.

 
Dans La Lune said:
Having lost the moral argument and abandoned any pretense that this isn't a free-for-all mass slaughter, it appears that the goal now is to overwhelm the senses of people (with a conscience) so that we turn away out of sheer mental preservation. Does anyone get the sense that this is happening? I have to admit, it's almost working. I having a hard time staying updated on this stuff.

A fog of outrage begins to cloud my brain when I see incidents like armed 'Humanitarian Relief' cheering that they gun down Palestinians desperate for food.

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Has Hamas released the hostages?
 
Fledermaus said:
Has Hamas released the hostages?
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These are civilians desperate for food. I know the nature of the right-wing, but it serves your argument to feign humanity.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Having lost the moral argument and abandoned any pretense that this isn't a free-for-all mass slaughter, it appears that the goal now is to overwhelm the senses of people (with a conscience) so that we turn away out of sheer mental preservation. Does anyone get the sense that this is happening? I have to admit, it's almost working. I having a hard time staying updated on this stuff.

A fog of outrage begins to cloud my brain when I see incidents like armed 'Humanitarian Relief' cheering that they gun down Palestinians desperate for food.

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What is the expectation here? That security wouldn't be armed? Or that their weapons would only be loaded with blanks?
 
Fledermaus said:
The question was.... Has Hamas released the hostages?
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You have my answer. Please address the topic, not what you want to talk about. You can't throw this on Hamas. Israel has the power, America has the power, and they're using that power to target civilians desperate for food.
 
Fledermaus said:
The question was.... Has Hamas released the hostages?
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No. They have not. How does that justify the IDF massacring people lining up for aid? Or reducing most of Gaza to rubble killing anywhere from at minimum 60,000 civilians to over 100,000?
 
lwf said:
What is the expectation here? That security wouldn't be armed? Or that their weapons would only be loaded with blanks?
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Why are heavily armed mercenaries handing out aid?
 
Felis Leo said:
No. They have not. How does that justify the IDF massacring people lining up for aid? Or reducing most of Gaza to rubble killing anywhere from at minimum 60,000 civilians to over 100,000?
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In addition:

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www.reuters.com


CAIRO, April 17 (Reuters) - Hamas wants a comprehensive deal to end the war in Gaza and swap all Israeli hostages for Palestinians jailed in Israel, a senior official from the Palestinian militant group said, rejecting Israel's offer of an interim truce.
In a televised speech, Khalil Al-Hayya, the group's Gaza chief who leads its negotiating team, said the group would no longer agree to interim deals, adopting a position that Israel is unlikely to accept and potentially further delaying an end to the devastating attacks that restarted in recent weeks.
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Instead, Hayya said Hamas was ready to immediately engage in "comprehensive package negotiations" to release all remaining hostages in its custody in return for an end to the Gaza war, the release of Palestinians jailed by Israel, and the reconstruction of Gaza.
"Netanyahu and his government use partial agreements as a cover for their political agenda, which is based on continuing the war of extermination and starvation, even if the price is sacrificing all his prisoners (hostages)," said Hayya, referring to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
"We will not be part of passing this policy."

Egyptian mediators have been working to revive the January ceasefire agreement that halted fighting in Gaza before it broke down last month, but there has been little sign of progress with both Israel and Hamas blaming each other.
"Hamas’s comments demonstrate they are not interested in peace but perpetual violence. The terms made by the Trump Administration have not changed: release the hostages or face hell," said National Security Council spokesperson James Hewitt.
The latest round of talks on Monday in Cairo to restore the ceasefire and free Israeli hostages ended with no apparent breakthrough, Palestinian and Egyptian sources said.
Israel had proposed a 45-day truce in Gaza to allow hostage releases and potentially begin indirect talks to end the war. Hamas has already rejected one of its conditions - that it lay down its arms. In his speech, Hayya accused Israel of offering a counterproposal with "impossible conditions."
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Fledermaus said:
Food riots.

Ever see one?

I was involved in a small scale food riot where the locals took up rocks and stones to assault us.

Thankfully it ended peacefully.
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So Israel cuts off food to Gazans, starving them, and then shoots hundreds of people dead for rioting over food. How exactly do you justify this to yourself, Fledermaus, other than a conscious or subconscious belief that Palestinians are sub-human or uniquely evil and worthy of such casual violence being inflicted upon them? What libertarian principle guides you to the conclusion that the Palestinian civilians deserve their deaths at the hands of the Israeli military?
 
Felis Leo said:
So Israel cuts off food to Gazans, starving them, and then shoots hundreds of people dead for rioting over food. How exactly do you justify this to yourself, Fledermaus, other than a conscious or subconscious belief that Palestinians are sub-human or uniquely evil and worthy of such casual violence being inflicted upon them? What libertarian principle guides you to the conclusion that the Palestinian civilians deserve their deaths at the hands of the Israeli military?
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A question was asked....

Why are heavily armed mercenaries handing out aid?

A question was answered....

Food riots.
 
Fledermaus said:
A question was asked....

Why are heavily armed mercenaries handing out aid?

A question was answered....

Food riots.
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The Israelis have killed upwards of 600 Palestinian civilians coming to these GHF centers and after creating the conditions leading to starving the people of Gaza. The IDF has made no attempt to justify this or punish anyone responsible. Just like the only thing that happened to the officer responsible for ordering 15 unarmed aid workers shot and buried in shallow graves was his demotion. So I am asking you directly, Fledermaus: By what principle(s), as an individual rights-loving libertarian (and one of the few remaining pro-Ukrainian libertarians to boot), do you remain so staunchly and unquestioningly pro-Israel?
 
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Felis Leo said:
The Israelis have killed upwards of 600 Palestinian civilians coming to these GHF centers. The IDF has made no attempt to justify this or punish anyone responsible. Just like the only thing that happened to the officer responsible for ordering 15 unarmed aid workers shot and buried in shallow graves was his demotion. So I am asking you directly, Fledermaus: By what principle(s), as an individual rights-loving libertarian, do you remain so staunchly and unquestioningly pro-Israel?
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Have you ever seen a food riot?

In Somalia we had to deploy AH-1W helicopters when food riots happened.

I am AGAINST West Bank Settlements.

I am AGAINST war crimes committed by the IDF. The problem is every person shot by the IDF is an innocent Palestinian going about his daily routine*.

I am AGAINST Human shield actions committed by the IDF. Remember only the IDF has punished their own for doing so.

I am AGAINST "carpet bombing" by the IDF. The problem is no one is carpet bombing.

I am AGAINST terrorist organizations targeting innocent civilians. By design. For a decades.

I do believe had Hamas cared about Gaza as a whole there wouldn't be this issue. Gaza had so much potential.



*Slight hyperbole
 
Dans La Lune said:
Having lost the moral argument and abandoned any pretense that this isn't a free-for-all mass slaughter, it appears that the goal now is to overwhelm the senses of people (with a conscience) so that we turn away out of sheer mental preservation. Does anyone get the sense that this is happening? I have to admit, it's almost working. I having a hard time staying updated on this stuff.

A fog of outrage begins to cloud my brain when I see incidents like armed 'Humanitarian Relief' cheering that they gun down Palestinians desperate for food.

Click to expand...

You're not alone my friend. ☮️
 
Dans La Lune said:
You have my answer. Please address the topic, not what you want to talk about. You can't throw this on Hamas. Israel has the power, America has the power, and they're using that power to target civilians desperate for food.
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So no. Hamas hasn't released the hostages which in turn keeps the hell that is now Gaza boiling.
 
Fledermaus said:
So no. Hamas hasn't released the hostages which in turn keeps the hell that is now Gaza boiling.
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I think we are past that point, Fledermaus. We have been given no reason to believe the IDF would stop killing Gazans by the thousands even if the last Israeli hostages were released or their bodies recovered. The Israel government has made it clear that the hostages are no longer their top priority. They will use the pretext that they are going to eliminate Hamas to prevent another October 7th do so. And since all civil services in Gaza were ultimately controlled by Hamas, Israel can always say whenever they kill a doctor or engineer or nurse along with their entire family and their neighbors that they were only going after a nascent terrorist cell.
 
Fledermaus said:
So no. Hamas hasn't released the hostages which in turn keeps the hell that is now Gaza boiling.
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So you admit that Israel commits war crimes as a weapon of war.
 
'Nothing justifies October 7th, but everything justifies the response to October 7th.'

Those who represent this argument don't see Palestinians as equal humans. Necessarily.
 
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