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Is the Bladensburg Cross Unconstitutional?

Somerville

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Is a cross a purely Christian symbol when it is used as a fallen veteran memorial? The SCOTUS will be making a decision on this matter in the next couple weeks.


Reasons offered by the American Humanist Assn.

All quotes from [URL="https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2019/01/31/heres-why-the-supreme-court-must-say-the-bladensburg-cross-is-unconstitutional/]Here’s Why the Supreme Court Must Say the Bladensburg Cross Is Unconstitutional[/URL]
 
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The left's continue effort to destroy the Christian religion.
 
The cross was actually a pagan symbol long before certain Christian denominations adopted it, thanks to Constantine...


https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1987605?q=cross&p=sen
 
If Christmas (Christ's mass?) can be a declared a national holiday (holy day?) without that being considered establishment of religion then a local community can certainly erect and maintain a cross shaped war memorial. After all, the original cross was simply a secular device used to administer the death penalty - that it was also adopted by a group of religions does not invalidate (or patent?) that shape. If a religion was 'established' and chose to use the 5 pointed star as its official symbol would that require our nation (or the state of Texas?) to alter its flag?
 
It's worth noting that the American Humanist Association supported the Satanist statue of the deity Baphomet on public grounds.

Which is not to say that they support Satanists, but it is to say their objection to religious symbolism on public ground is selective and utilitarian.
 

No, their position is all or nothing when it comes to religious symbols on public grounds. They supported the Baphomet statue because Christian symbols were allowed. If Christian symbols were not allowed they would not support the Baphomet statue. Even the Satanists only wanted the statue to prove a point. And a valid point, IMO.
 
Today in 2019 and, more importantly, at the time of the making of this memorial the cross was, and is, definitely a Christian symbol. It isn't the kind of thing I lose sleep over, but I view the memorial as only paying respect to the Christians who died in WWI. It an exclusive memorial, not an inclusive one. As an atheist veteran I am not offended by it, but I wish they would just be honest about it. But then I guess if they were honest about it they would lose the court case.
 

No, they explicitly approved of the statue as part of an effort to get the Ten Commandments removed, not as part of an "all or nothing" argument.

https://americanhumanist.org/press-releases/aha-approves-satanist-intervention-in-arkansas-fight/
 
^^^ The right's pathological dishonesty in claiming the the left is trying to destroy the Christian religion.

Already know that we see things very differently.

So then prove that the left isn't, in context with the many anti-Christian legal suits brought, anti-Christians media attacks, the near constant elbowing of the Christian religion off of the public square.
 
Exactly, they were trying to prove a point. A fair one, too.

In which case their objection, or non-objection, is selective and utilitarian.

Even by this description, they don't hold the principle of "all or nothing." They simply argued that in order to get the Ten Commandments removed.
 

I don't have to prove a thing. You made the assertion in the positive. It's up to you to back it up.

There simply is no credible evidence, nor can you provide any, that 'the left' is trying to 'destroy the Christian religion'.

It's an asinine claim not moored in reality, but it's great for emotional outbursts intended to replace actual thinking.
 
No, they explicitly approved of the statue as part of an effort to get the Ten Commandments removed, not as part of an "all or nothing" argument.

https://americanhumanist.org/press-releases/aha-approves-satanist-intervention-in-arkansas-fight/

I do not see where you are gaining a belief that the AHA and the Satanic Temple want the statue of Baphomet to replace the Ten Commandment marker?

from the AHA link you provided
 

It's also innate in their beliefs that any change from their past superior position over all other beliefs is nothing more than persecution to be equated with the Holocaust.
 
In which case their objection, or non-objection, is selective and utilitarian.

Even by this description, they don't hold the principle of "all or nothing." They simply argued that in order to get the Ten Commandments removed.

I think we are talking past each other.
 
It's also innate in their beliefs that any change from their past superior position over all other beliefs is nothing more than persecution to be equated with the Holocaust.

LOL! Yep, it's all hyperbole, all the time. Rather like Kavanaugh.

YOU HAVE DESTROYED MY FAMILY!!!!!!
 

  • Persecution of the Christan baker in Colorado
  • Social media uproar over Pence teaching art at a private Christian school
  • Many other specific instances

Further:

And in addition

Regular Christians Are No Longer Welcome In American Culture | Time
time.com/4385755/faith-in-america/

Jun 29, 2016 - For many American Christians who lean in toward traditionalism, these are anxious times. ... have added to the sense that religious expression is under attack. ... Sign up to receive the top stories you need to know right now.

You can deny it all you want, but I'm not going to be easily convinced that its not as I've stated.

So, your turn.
 
I do not see where you are gaining a belief that the AHA and the Satanic Temple want the statue of Baphomet to replace the Ten Commandment marker?

I never said they wanted the Baphomet statue to "replace" anything.
 
  • Persecution of the Christan baker in Colorado
  • Social media uproar over Pence teaching art at a private Christian school
  • Many other specific instances

Which does not support your hair-on-fire, emotional claim about 'the left'. Whatsoever.
Yawn. That simply doesn't support your claim. I understand that's nice and comfy pretending that it does, but that won't change the reality of it. Regular Christians are everywhere and welcome in today's society, no matter how badly you and others need to pretend that they're being 'persecuted'.

What isn't respected, since it's missed your notice, is that laughable and rank public hypocrisy, dishonesty and biblical pig-ignorance of those who claim to be Christians but clearly aren't. Mocking, smearing and belittling, when deserved, and that's quite often, simply isn't 'destroying'.

You seem not to understand that wishing a thing were true will not actually make that thing true.
 

"You seem not to understand that wishing a thing were true will not actually make that thing true."
I'm seeing nothing but the same in your denials.

How about we try this for a change?
How about we leave Christians alone for awhile, and just let them practice their religion in peace?

Or is it that the secular left 'religion' is so fearful of anything that is not it, that it needs to promote itself, as well as the government, as the 'new' and only politically correct 'religion'?

Do recall that the separation of church and state was in response to state churches and state religion. It does not refer to freedom from religion in the public square.

Practice nearly whatever you will, however you will, in your home and in your optional place of worship. The government has no jurisdiction in these venues.
 
"You seem not to understand that wishing a thing were true will not actually make that thing true."
I'm seeing nothing but the same in your denials.

Indeed! I am denying that you've made any rational case supporting your asinine claim, and I'm right. Yay!
How about we try this for a change?
How about we leave Christians alone for awhile, and just let them practice their religion in peace?

That's already happening. They're free to practice their religion in peace. Your wish has already come true.
Or is it that the secular left 'religion' is so fearful of anything that is not it, that it needs to promote itself, as well as the government, as the 'new' and only politically correct 'religion'?

Irrelevant to anything I've stated.
Do recall that the separation of church and state was in response to state churches and state religion. It does not refer to freedom from religion in the public square.

I have not claimed otherwise, so spare me the strawman.
Practice nearly whatever you will, however you will, in your home and in your optional place of worship. The government has no jurisdiction in these venues.

OK. We agree. Nice place to end up.
 

OK Fair. Seems that the only real place we are disagreeing is about the attacks on Christians from nearly every angle.
This would be factual, so, not so sure about the foundation of your position. :shrug:
 
OK Fair. Seems that the only real place we are disagreeing is about the attacks on Christians from nearly every angle.
This would be factual, so, not so sure about the foundation of your position. :shrug:

Where we actually disagree is that those 'attacks' constitute an attempt by 'the left' to 'destroy' the Christian religion.

The foundation of my position is that there is no credible evidence to support that claim. Full stop.
 
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