How often do police officers arrive at a scene where someone has shot to death another person and take the killer's word for how the other person ended up dead instead of letting a jury decide?
that's three responses in a row from you ... I'm going to have to get a restraining order to get you to stop following me ... after several exchanges with someone, a rolling of the eyes is all that is left ... you cons don't seem to understand how difficult it is to try to have an intelligent conversation with you guys ... it's hard work (to quote Bush) ... it's hard ...
Last I checked Im a Libertarian, not a conservative.......
But please, do keep calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a "con". It works wonders for your credibility.............
Yes, you can. Why do people always say this? Tell me what HARM there is in treating 16 year olds as adults for the purposes of the criminal justice system while not giving them voting, drinking, and marriage privleges (because they can already drive you know..... hell 15 year olds in SC can drive without supervision).
All things MORE government can't help.
The only thing that can help this is good parenting.
What you are basically advocating if I am getting this right is because modern parenting has been a general FAIL to teach responsibility to teenagers, that we should treat them like babies longer because it will take them longer to figure it out on their own.
You are "subsidizing" parental apathy.
And usually more experience in the Real World.
Again.... Why can't you?Because, you can't hold them criminally responsible as an adult and yet not consider them adults with adult rights. Yes, they can drive, and that is where the automobile accident statistics come in.
Again.... Why can't you?
Because if they are to be considered adults, then they are entitled to all the rights or privileges of adults.
Punishment for the purposes of the criminal justice system and privileges as adults have two completely separate set of parameters and purposes......
Why do you think they should be as one?
Because how can you call someone an adult just when it's convenient for you and when it becomes inconvenient call that same person a child? It doesn't make sense and is too arbitrary. A person is either an adult or a child, not going in between both for purposes of convenience.
I am starting to wonder if you are an adult, if you are, you obviously know NOTHING about criminal justice.
If you don't charge someone as an adult, they go virtually unpunished. Do you know what the "Juvenile Justice" system is?
You are aware that it does absolutely NOTHING for serious crimes right? What you are advocating is that 16 year old murderers get a 2 year sentence and be set free?
Serious crimes are not the place for the juvenile justice system.
What age group is being recruited into violent gangs? Do you know why?
Do you honestly think that 14,15,16 year olds do not know right from wrong when it comes to murder, robbery, rape, etc? If your answer is that they do, then they belong in the regular criminal justice system... not the "juvenile" one.
To understand what being "tried as an adult" is..... you have to understand the difference between the Juvenile Justice System and the regular Justice System.
Do you?
As for convenience......... Its not what is convenient for me, it is what is necessary for society.
As per your comment about being either an adult or a child...... that is about the most assinine thing I have ever heard. One doesn't suddenly "become" a being capable of knowing right from wrong at an arbitrary age. Thus the purpose of trying "minors" in the regular justice system for particularly serious felonies.
You have to draw a line between adult and child somewhere.
Also, in my earlier posts on this thread I said that if it was a crime of a violent or serious nature that they should be able to extend their sentencing so that they do have to serve more than say 2 years for a murder or something like that.
There was a killer Craig Price in the state next to mine who was committed as a juvenile but because he was so violent and uncooperative during his time in juvie (I think he might have killed someone in prison - not sure - I'd have to look it up), he was tried for those crimes as an adult and is still in jail now I believe, so there are things that could be done in cases of serious and violent crimes besides just trying them as an adult off the bat.
I also mentioned that it should be dependent upon whether or not they have priors and what those would consist of. Sorry, but I just don't believe in trying a 12-year-old as an adult.
There are no such things as "Priors" when you are charged in the Juvenile Justice System and then turn adult.
A 12 year old is pushing it I agree.
But a 16 year old? Even a 15 year old...... You betcha.
We didn't hear or see the kid breaking into our house because we were sound asleep. I only started asking questions when I couldn't find my purse.
The thing is though that juveniles are capable of being rehabilitated. Sometimes they're violent because of an abusive home situation or whatever, and they ARE young enough that rehabilitation apparently works VERY well, so if we could rehabilitate a minor to become a productive member of society rather than a leach in the prison system, I think that would work out well. Of course, this all would be dependent on the level of violence and other such factors. If it is a person who is of 15 or 16 years of age and they are involved in crime (yes, they can have "priors" as long as they aren't actually an adult yet - juvenile record isn't sealed until you are 18 in most places I believe), say this particular person is a gang member and has priors, then perhaps that person should be tried as an adult if only to protect society.
Of course these are just my opinions. I'm not a lawmaker or anything so . . .
The thing is though that juveniles are capable of being rehabilitated. Sometimes they're violent because of an abusive home situation or whatever, and they ARE young enough that rehabilitation apparently works VERY well, so if we could rehabilitate a minor to become a productive member of society rather than a leach in the prison system, I think that would work out well. Of course, this all would be dependent on the level of violence and other such factors. If it is a person who is of 15 or 16 years of age and they are involved in crime (yes, they can have "priors" as long as they aren't actually an adult yet - juvenile record isn't sealed until you are 18 in most places I believe), say this particular person is a gang member and has priors, then perhaps that person should be tried as an adult if only to protect society.
Of course these are just my opinions. I'm not a lawmaker or anything so . . .
Actually a juvenile record is sealed period..... only the relevant juvenile justice system and "counselors" (and I don't mean attorneys) get to see it. By "relevant Juvneile Justice System" I mean whatever it may be called in a particular state, like the "North Carolina Department of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention" (if that doesn't tell you how worthless they are at actually handling serious crimes I don't know what will).
I understand many juveniles can be rehabilitated. However, murder, ADWISI, ADWIKISI, and multiple armed robbery/rape charges are things that should not be handled by the DJJDP.
Of course, these are also just my opinions...... as an ex-cop who has seen how worthless Juvenile Justice is....
I wouldn't argue that it probably needs improvement. There's always room for improvement.
Well, I'm sure you know more about it than I do then. Where would you draw the line between charging one as a juvenile as opposed to an adult. If a 12-year-old child commits a murder, should that child face the rest of his/her life in prison like an adult, or perhaps even execution?
Oh lord..... that decision would have to take into account SO many more variables and aggravating/mitigating circumstances more than just age and crime.....
Those states wouldn't put a 15 year old to death either.Well I for one can't imagine putting a child of even 15 years old to death, and some states have the death penalty, so there is always the possibility that if a child is charged as an adult he or she could face the death penalty. I also would think that penalizing a child so young to the rest of his/her life in prison is penalizing them even more than an adult because they would have a lot more years to serve.
But I agree that the crime and other variables have to be considered.
Those states wouldn't put a 15 year old to death either.
Often young murderers don't serve life sentences for that matter.
Well I for one can't imagine putting a child of even 15 years old to death, and some states have the death penalty, so there is always the possibility that if a child is charged as an adult he or she could face the death penalty. I also would think that penalizing a child so young to the rest of his/her life in prison is penalizing them even more than an adult because they would have a lot more years to serve.
But I agree that the crime and other variables have to be considered.
Don't you oppose the death penalty anyway? Or I could have that wrong.
now if you had rigged up a trip wire with a flare or better yet a claymore mine, not only would you have heard the little miscreant breaking in, you'd still have your purse:mrgreen:
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?