Is Social Security Welfare?

[HikerGuy83]

I disagree with your premise "of course it is welfare", but agree that money is "redistributed", because, of course, all taxes work that way (it's the very point of taxation). You are, of course, entirely correct that the term is used for disparagement and for the reasons you posit.

What do you mean it is "very point of taxation" ?

Of course not all taxes go back into the pockets of individuals.

How is building a road "redistributing". If you built a private road you'd be doing the same thing.

In effect, every transaction is a redistribution of sorts.

That is the not the same thing.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Are you aware of how many people are living paycheck to paycheck?

78% Of Workers Live Paycheck To Paycheck​

• Nearly one in 10 workers making $100,000+ live paycheck to paycheck
• 
  More than 1 in 4 workers do not set aside any savings each month
• Nearly 3 in 4 workers say they are in debt - and more than half think they always will be
• More than half of minimum wage workers say they have to work more than one job to make ends meet
• 28% of workers making $50,000-$99,999 usually or always live paycheck to paycheck, and 70% are in debt

The survey also found that 32% of the nearly 3,500 full-time workers surveyed use a budget and only 56% save $100 or less a month.

78% Of Workers Live Paycheck To Paycheck

Here's what to do if you're living paycheck to paycheck.

www.forbes.com

Social Security isn't going anywhere nor should it.

You ever asked just WTF they are doing with their money ?

How can someone making 100 K be living paycheck to paycheck ?

 

[Nickyjo]

Are you aware of how many people are living paycheck to paycheck?

78% Of Workers Live Paycheck To Paycheck​

• Nearly one in 10 workers making $100,000+ live paycheck to paycheck
• 
  More than 1 in 4 workers do not set aside any savings each month
• Nearly 3 in 4 workers say they are in debt - and more than half think they always will be
• More than half of minimum wage workers say they have to work more than one job to make ends meet
• 28% of workers making $50,000-$99,999 usually or always live paycheck to paycheck, and 70% are in debt

The survey also found that 32% of the nearly 3,500 full-time workers surveyed use a budget and only 56% save $100 or less a month.

78% Of Workers Live Paycheck To Paycheck

Here's what to do if you're living paycheck to paycheck.

www.forbes.com

Social Security isn't going anywhere nor should it.

The point you replied to appears often, the notion that one could make more money by reading prospectuses and investing money by oneself, as if my non English-speaking grandparents and 8th grade educated parents could do that. Social Security is a safety net like thing, much like Medicare. If one wants to supplement it with private insurance as I do, go ahead, no one is stopping you. But at the same time, we’ve decided to require all of us to contribute to the common good. Yes, some on the right will get apoplectic at the last sentence, but they’ve been doing that since Franklin Roosevelt, or perhaps even since trust-busting Teddy R.

 

[NWRatCon]

What do you mean it is "very point of taxation" ?

Of course not all taxes go back into the pockets of individuals.

How is building a road "redistributing". If you built a private road you'd be doing the same thing.

In effect, every transaction is a redistribution of sorts.

That is the not the same thing.

How is it different? The government takes funds, and distributes it as it wishes to - to contractors, employees, vendors, citizens. Not all "redistributions" are to individuals, but individuals are certainly within the scope of such distributions.

Building a road "redistributes" wealth in a great many different ways. Say you're a billionaire that earned your money the old fashioned way - by the labor of others. You are taxed on your income. That money is then spent by the government for the purpose of building the road. That money is "redistributed" to the landowners over whose land the road is built; for gravel and tar, and profits to the vendor; to the contractor who bid on the project, again including profit margin; to the employees, for income, to pay their income taxes, FICA, funding their pension system (if they have one), 401(k)s. All of those are redistributions, as are the tax breaks for various businesses involved in the process.

Yes, "In effect, every transaction is a redistribution of sorts."

 

[HikerGuy83]

How is it different? The government takes funds, and distributes it as it wishes to - to contractors, employees, vendors, citizens. Not all "redistributions" are to individuals, but individuals are certainly within the scope of such distributions.

Building a road "redistributes" wealth in a great many different ways. Say you're a billionaire that earned your money the old fashioned way - by the labor of others. You are taxed on your income. That money is then spent by the government for the purpose of building the road. That money is "redistributed" to the landowners over whose land the road is built; for gravel and tar, and profits to the vendor; to the contractor who bid on the project, again including profit margin; to the employees, for income, to pay their income taxes, FICA, funding their pension system (if they have one), 401(k)s. All of those are redistributions, as are the tax breaks for various businesses involved in the process.

Yes, "In effect, every transaction is a redistribution of sorts."

And each comes with it's own set of supporting "principles" or "premises" if you will.

Redistribution is typically referenced as something where money is taken from one person and given to another.

 

[Loulit01]

Any discussion of Social Security is basically academic. We all know it's the third rail of U.S. politics: Any politician seriously suggesting the end of S.S. is dog meat.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Nah, it’s welfare, if by that one means that one gets something from the government one didn’t pay for. I’ve gotten way more back in benefits than I paid in SS taxes. Welfare, but we can’t admit it.

I never asserted whether social security is welfare in this forum, much less this thread. Seems like a pointless question IMO.

I do assert that without it millions of people would probably die; young and old.

 

[NWRatCon]

You ever asked just WTF they are doing with their money ?

How can someone making 100 K be living paycheck to paycheck ?

Well, let's consider this:
First, reduce that $100,000 by 18% for income taxes (effective tax rate). You're at $82k. Next, Forty-three states levy individual income taxes. Forty-one tax wage and salary income. Knock off another 5% (on average). Now it is only $77k. Then FICA, another 7.65%, down to $69k. Now, you need to pay your mortgage, or other housing cost - another whopping $27k, you're down to $32k. Of course, to be making $100k, you have to have gotten a college degree. That's going to take another $3k. $29k left for car payments, food, insurance, utilities, phone... Oh, and anything you have to spend for child care, on the $2400/month you have left.

Here’s What A $100,000 Income Gets You Around The US In 2022

“Why is it still this hard when we have so much?”

www.buzzfeednews.com

Eight People Share What It’s Like To Live On $100,000 A Year (Buzzfeed)​

 

[NWRatCon]

Redistribution is typically referenced as something where money is taken from one person and given to another.

True, but is that an accurate conception? Or, is it just a "convenient" word used to make a political point?

 

[Super Chief]

How is working and paying into social security equal to "resting on your laurels."

It is if a person never went beyond relying on SS for retirement, and failed to make investments through their lives which go far beyond the measly chump change which is a monthly SS check.

 

[Nickyjo]

I never asserted whether social security is welfare in this forum, much less this thread. Seems like a pointless question IMO.

I do assert that without it millions of people would probably die; young and old.

Agreed. Again I repeat that if poor people pay taxes, then have to go on welfare, they have been scorned by people like Reagan. If I pay SS taxes, then get more back than I put in, I am not attacked for having done so. Just about all of us get something from some government teat, even if it’s as simple as the ability to incorporate, or move goods to market through the interstate. But some are so disingenuously blind, they will not see… or admit.

 

[Super Chief]

Your answers indicate a clear disconnect between what you think, and what actually is.

Many can/should make better choices throughout their lives to prepare themselves for an independently funded retirement.

For many more, that isn’t an option.

Since when is failure considered an option? Here in the USA you get free pubic education, and just about everyone is entitled to free junior college where they can at least learn enough to get a basic trade job. Then after that you scrimp, you save, and you invest for your future. That is why it is called building a nest egg, you have to start working at it early.

 

[Super Chief]

There isn't an infinite supply of "good" paying jobs. If everyone made "good" life choices, there would still be people who have to work minimum wage service jobs. It is baked into the system. Structural.

What was it that P.T. Barnum used to say?

If not having goals or ambition is something "baked into" an individual.... well, that is on them. Nothing says they can't work hard to do better than a minimum wage job. They aren't forced to work those jobs, most people settle for them.

 

[reflechissez]

It is if a person never went beyond relying on SS for retirement, and failed to make investments through their lives which go far beyond the measly chump change which is a monthly SS check.

What "laurels" are they resting on? That makes no sense.

 

[holbritter]

This doesn't sound right though. Nobody should be forced to finance someone else' retirement. People should only fund their retirement with their own money, nobody else'.


That sounds interesting! How would it work?

Personal Social Security accounts, and options to permit you to use a portion of their Social Security tax into secured investments.

 

[holbritter]

It is if a person never went beyond relying on SS for retirement, and failed to make investments through their lives which go far beyond the measly chump change which is a monthly SS check.

There are so many people that don't have that option. Being a male and apparently well off, you wouldn't understand.

 

[holbritter]

Since when is failure considered an option? Here in the USA you get free pubic education, and just about everyone is entitled to free junior college where they can at least learn enough to get a basic trade job. Then after that you scrimp, you save, and you invest for your future. That is why it is called building a nest egg, you have to start working at it early.

What planet are you living on? On one hand you're saying people should save get a better than minimum wage job, etc... but you don't even know that getting financial aid for a young student who's parents are making a decent living (what you said they should do) would not be eligible for it.

 

[Simpletruther]

Are you aware of how many people are living paycheck to paycheck?

78% Of Workers Live Paycheck To Paycheck​

• Nearly one in 10 workers making $100,000+ live paycheck to paycheck
• 
  More than 1 in 4 workers do not set aside any savings each month
• Nearly 3 in 4 workers say they are in debt - and more than half think they always will be
• More than half of minimum wage workers say they have to work more than one job to make ends meet
• 28% of workers making $50,000-$99,999 usually or always live paycheck to paycheck, and 70% are in debt

The survey also found that 32% of the nearly 3,500 full-time workers surveyed use a budget and only 56% save $100 or less a month.

78% Of Workers Live Paycheck To Paycheck

Here's what to do if you're living paycheck to paycheck.

www.forbes.com

Social Security isn't going anywhere nor should it.

Yet they obviously vsn afford to pay 6% of their income, becasue they do.

And they would have been much better off investing that themselves in a market fund.


Plus millions of those live paycheck to paycheck (not all sure) do so because they like excess consumption. And could easily build a savings with prudent financial decisions.

 

[Simpletruther]

You don't really grok math all that well, do you? "Median income" does not represent  most income earners, nor earnings history. How many people do you think are represented in the number? How many years of employment did it take to reach that "median income"? There are so many errors in your presentation, correction of it would be well beyond the thread scope.

It's a good approximation. Many make mire and many less but it's a good estimate.

And the very fact that employers pay half demonstrate beyond any doubt it's partially. Subsidized and is akin to a form of welfare.

Either we are getting way more on average than we put on, or the government is lying about the purpose of employers matching.

 

[bave]

Well, let's consider this:
First, reduce that $100,000 by 18% for income taxes (effective tax rate). You're at $82k. Next, Forty-three states levy individual income taxes. Forty-one tax wage and salary income. Knock off another 5% (on average). Now it is only $77k. Then FICA, another 7.65%, down to $69k. Now, you need to pay your mortgage, or other housing cost - another whopping $27k, you're down to $32k. Of course, to be making $100k, you have to have gotten a college degree. That's going to take another $3k. $29k left for car payments, food, insurance, utilities, phone... Oh, and anything you have to spend for child care, on the $2400/month you have left.

Here’s What A $100,000 Income Gets You Around The US In 2022

“Why is it still this hard when we have so much?”

www.buzzfeednews.com

Eight People Share What It’s Like To Live On $100,000 A Year (Buzzfeed)​

Get better at math.

First off, your eFIT is wrong. Assuming zero deductions at any level it is 15%, which is still highly unlikely.

Second off, state/local taxes are a classic example of a deductible expense.

Third, $2400 a month after mandatory expenses is a pretty good chunk. If you are living check to check with $2400/month in discretionary income then that's your fault.

 

[Razoo]

Social Security Insurance is Insurance not welfare and it is paid for UNLIKE corporate welfare and special interest tax deductions.

Medicare Insurance is Insurance and it is paid for UNLIKE corporate welfare and special interest tax deductions.

 

[911Sparky]

I’m very familiar with CSRS. How about you? The newer system FERS pays a pension and SS

My knowledge is a bit outdated, since it is based on conversations with a postal employee customer whom I have not seen since 2012.

 

[Communist Front]

Nope.

You pay into it during your working career. Those with more work/money made, receive more.

Social Security isn't a savings account you deposit into when you're working, only to withdraw what you deposited when you retire. You can and probably will receive a lot more than what was deducted from your paycheck. Same applies for Medicare. The US federal government will never go insolvent because it's the exclusive issuer of the dollar. It will never run out of money to pay you your social security. So yes indeed, Social Security is a type of social welfare program for our elderly, in order to take care of them when they're no longer working and earning a wage. There's nothing wrong with that. Didn't they raise us, and support us when we were young? Are we going to abandon our parents and grandparents when they're older and no longer employed? No we're not, if we're a civil society.

 

[ScrambledEggs]

and one more thing people who receive welfare do NOT pay anything in to it
people who get SS have paid into it most people like me have paid into it for over 50 years
have a nice day

Not true. For example, you could work for 5 years, pay taxes, then fall on hard times, receive food stamps or assistance. You also need to be working or applying to jobs to recieve food stamps.

 

[jonny5]

What "laurels" are they resting on? That makes no sense.

To be satisfied with one’s achievement, by implication enough so as not to expend further effort.

The laurels are SS. No further effort to create a real retirement savings.