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Is religion about avoiding reality?

humorous
/ˈhjuːm(ə)rəs/
adjective
causing laughter and amusement; comic.
"a humorous and entertaining talk"
synonyms: amusing, funny, entertaining, comic, comical, chucklesome, diverting, witty, jocular, light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek, wry, waggish, whimsical, playful

Trust me, humor isn't always funny. But then again, I'm sure you're already aware of that. Or we could just go with "light-hearted" or "witty", or "tongue-in-cheek".


OM
 
I'll tell you what. How about you do two things. Define 'Free Will'. Which variety. Then, show it exists. Do you know the two major concepts of free will (which are mutually exclusive to each other?)

Free will is the ability for people to make their own decisions. Now...this doesn't mean that everyone can literally do anything, I cannot just become an astronaut because I want to....I'd have to do a bunch of training and have years of experience in aviation, science, or engineering field, which would put me at an age where I'd most likely be disqualified if I started now. I can, however, make decisions within my means and the options before me are significantly built upon the totality of my life's decisions to this point.

Now it's your turn...what did you mean by "excuse the inexcusable"?
 
So god will give man "the gift" of "free will" for roughly the 50 to 100 years while they're alive on Earth, and then eternally punish the overwhelming majority for rationally utilizing that "gift"?

Nope...you got it wrong.
 
Just because the though experience is real does not make that evidence of God though.

I never said it was, I was only saying that an experience of God would be that way. So a person sating their is no evidence of God to a person who, for the sake of argument, actually DID experience communion with God, would be as meaningless to them as telling them that there is no France because you've never been there.

They can induce that feeling of being enraptured by God with brain stimulation in labs.

I don't think anyone ever attempted to argue that the joy of communion with God has no natural mechanism. We can assume that a God who created us would know these mechanisms and use them.
 
I never said it was, I was only saying that an experience of God would be that way. So a person sating their is no evidence of God to a person who, for the sake of argument, actually DID experience communion with God, would be as meaningless to them as telling them that there is no France because you've never been there.



I don't think anyone ever attempted to argue that the joy of communion with God has no natural mechanism. We can assume that a God who created us would know these mechanisms and use them.

There are 2 possibilities;

1, That humans have a mechanism in our brains which can, when stimulated, produce the feeling of communing with God. That this is just one of those physiological things, like your arm tingling after hitting your funny bone.

or

2, That God put this mechanism into us in order to use t at will as a short cut to doing all that communing thing.

Except that there is no requirement to believe that 1 is at all unlikely so there is no need to reach for the second. We can go with the simple one.
 
There are 2 possibilities;

1, That humans have a mechanism in our brains which can, when stimulated, produce the feeling of communing with God. That this is just one of those physiological things, like your arm tingling after hitting your funny bone.

or

2, That God put this mechanism into us in order to use t at will as a short cut to doing all that communing thing.

Except that there is no requirement to believe that 1 is at all unlikely so there is no need to reach for the second. We can go with the simple one.

Well, I am not presenting an argument that the existence of a joy mechanism in the brain as proof of God, I am rejecting the argument that proof that such a mechanism exists is proof that God doesn't.
 
Well, I am not presenting an argument that the existence of a joy mechanism in the brain as proof of God, I am rejecting the argument that proof that such a mechanism exists is proof that God doesn't.

But as always it is upon you who makes the positive claim to provide the evidence to back it or it is put into the same category as the Flying Teapot God.
 
But as always it is upon you who makes the positive claim to provide the evidence to back it or it is put into the same category as the Flying Teapot God.

No, it really isn't. I have only presented the argument that the experience of God is personal, and non-transferable. That is it. I don't need to prove that which I have stated is unprovable.
 
No, it really isn't. I have only presented the argument that the experience of God is personal, and non-transferable. That is it. I don't need to prove that which I have stated is unprovable.

Does this mean that God can be anything to anybody?


OM
 
Does this mean that God can be anything to anybody?

OM

A brief perusal of the world's religions would say yes. Whether their is a practical difference in God between people is another question. It's interesting that for the vast majority of believers of all faiths God is a power for good and peace... which is a strange anomaly in a species that seems so inclined to death and violence.
 
No, it really isn't. I have only presented the argument that the experience of God is personal, and non-transferable. That is it. I don't need to prove that which I have stated is unprovable.

And I present the information that your personal non-transferable experience can be switched on like a light bulb.
 
A brief perusal of the world's religions would say yes. Whether their is a practical difference in God between people is another question. It's interesting that for the vast majority of believers of all faiths God is a power for good and peace... which is a strange anomaly in a species that seems so inclined to death and violence.

That most present religions don't try to be as nasty as possible is a reasonably recent thing, last couple of thousand years or so. Societies which had such touchy feely co-operative means running through them were far better at mobilizing larger armies than the followers of Herne, God of the Wild Hunt.
 
That most present religions don't try to be as nasty as possible is a reasonably recent thing, last couple of thousand years or so. Societies which had such touchy feely co-operative means running through them were far better at mobilizing larger armies than the followers of Herne, God of the Wild Hunt.

But they acted in ways that were actually counter to the teachings of their religious faiths. If you wrote a book that said "be nice to everyone" and someone used that book to beat someone over the head, it's not you or the book at fault, but the person who didn't follow it.

We are in fact a species prone to tremendous violence, but, using the Christian example, the wisdom by which our relative peaceful disposition was built today was actually written at the beginning... we just got around to actually following it, for the most part. We're still a work in progress.
 
The word is resurrected. The resurrection of Jesus is well-attested to. Jesus also raised Lazarus from the dead. If you have evidence it's a myth please show it.

Do you have any evidence that ANYONE else has ever been "resurrected" like Lazarus or Jesus? No.
 
Religion really is in large part a set of narratives that gave our best understanding of the world at the time.
 
Free will is the ability for people to make their own decisions. Now...this doesn't mean that everyone can literally do anything, I cannot just become an astronaut because I want to....I'd have to do a bunch of training and have years of experience in aviation, science, or engineering field, which would put me at an age where I'd most likely be disqualified if I started now. I can, however, make decisions within my means and the options before me are significantly built upon the totality of my life's decisions to this point.

Now it's your turn...what did you mean by "excuse the inexcusable"?

There are many bad things in the world. When I ask about 'why is the disease', or if someone brings up the problem of evil that Epicurus brought up, it gets hand waved away with the words 'free will' with no further explanation or discussion. When the xmas tsunami happened, and the question of 'why did god allow that pain and suffering', the answer was 'free will'
 
Why Is There So Much Suffering?
MEMBERS of the clergy who claim to know the answer to the question posed at the left often teach that suffering is punishment from God. Days after Haiti’s earthquake, for example, a priest in the capital told his congregation that the disaster was a message from God. Others are less dogmatic. An American associate professor of religion says that many people seem to view it this way: “Why God ordains such disasters is a mystery that is not ours to question. It is only our job to have faith.”

Does God really “ordain” human suffering? The Bible emphatically answers no! Suffering was not part of Jehovah God’s purpose for mankind. However, the first human couple rebelled against God’s rule, choosing to set their own standards of good and bad. They turned away from God and suffered the consequences. Today we are experiencing the effects of their bad choice. But in no way did God originate human suffering. The Bible says: “When under trial, let no one say: ‘I am being tried by God.’ For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.” (James 1:13) Suffering can afflict anyone​—even those who are favored by God. Consider the following examples:

The prophet Elisha had a terminal illness.​—2 Kings 13:14.

The apostle Paul wrote that he continued “to hunger and also to thirst and to be scantily clothed and to be knocked about and to be homeless.”​—1 Corinthians 4:11.

The Christian Epaphroditus was sick and “depressed.”​—Philippians 2:25, 26.

Nowhere do we read that these three men were being punished by God for their sins. Yet, the Bible does more than simply reveal who is not responsible for suffering. It also identifies three basic factors that often cause suffering.

Personal Choice
“Whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap.” (Galatians 6:7) Certainly, a person who chooses to smoke, drive recklessly, or squander his income must bear some responsibility for any suffering his decisions may cause.

We may also suffer because of the selfish choices of someone else. Indeed, humans have perpetrated the most disturbing evils, from Nazi atrocities to the abuse of children. By misusing free will, some make decisions that bring suffering to others.

Random Events
In the first century C.E., a large tower in Jerusalem fell, killing 18 people. Referring to the victims of this incident, Jesus said: “Do you think they were more guilty than anyone else who lived in Jerusalem? Certainly not!” (Luke 13:4, 5, The New American Bible) Jesus knew that the victims were not punished by God. He knew what God’s Word had earlier stated: “Time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:11) Many tragedies occur because a victim is in the wrong place at the wrong time or because of human error. For example, reports show that there is much more suffering when people ignore warnings and where buildings are not constructed to withstand severe weather or earthquakes. In such cases, random events affect more people and thus cause more suffering.

“The Ruler of This World”
The Bible states: “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (John 12:31; 1 John 5:19) That “wicked one” is Satan the Devil, a powerful spirit creature who is described as “the ruler of the authority of the air.” Satan promotes “the spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience.” (Ephesians 2:2) Some crimes, such as genocide and child abuse, have been so horrific that many find it hard to attribute them to mere human origin.

Why Is There So Much Suffering? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
 
Do you have any evidence that ANYONE else has ever been "resurrected" like Lazarus or Jesus? No.

Read the rest of the Bible for more examples. Then do a thorough study on the life of Smith Wigglesworth and the people he raised from the dead.

All it seems you have is a biased case of denial.
 
Does this mean that God can be anything to anybody?


OM

The obvious answer to this is yes. And evidence strongly supports this. It has to do with what the word god actually represents.
 
Beethoven was deaf. He composed music. He played music.

His ability to appreciate music did NOT depend on his sense of hearing.

His ability to experience music transcended his lack of hearing. I can't explain how or why he was so good at this.

I am not able to explain my experience to you and I accept that. I apologize.

Beethoven lost his hearing. He knew how to write music and knew what the notes would sound like. He was not deaf from birth. And still, how is music analogous to god?
 
Beethoven lost his hearing. He knew how to write music and knew what the notes would sound like. He was not deaf from birth. And still, how is music analogous to god?

lol...you brought it up 1st so you tell us...:roll:
 
Read the rest of the Bible for more examples. Then do a thorough study on the life of Smith Wigglesworth and the people he raised from the dead.

All it seems you have is a biased case of denial.

You actually believe the gobblegook?
 
But they acted in ways that were actually counter to the teachings of their religious faiths. If you wrote a book that said "be nice to everyone" and someone used that book to beat someone over the head, it's not you or the book at fault, but the person who didn't follow it.

We are in fact a species prone to tremendous violence, but, using the Christian example, the wisdom by which our relative peaceful disposition was built today was actually written at the beginning... we just got around to actually following it, for the most part. We're still a work in progress.

Druids who sacrificed people did not act in ways contrary to their faith.

Not all religions are nice at all.
 
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