Is Obama is a racist because he goes to TUCC?

[Hatuey]

The facts :

Barack Obama's Church [p. 2]

It is true that Barack Obama belongs to Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ, which he joined in the early 1980s. It is also true that TUCC describes itself as "unashamedly black," and as having a "non-negotiable commitment to Africa."

It is not true, however, that one must be black in order to attend. TUCC is located in a predominantly African American neighborhood in Chicago's South Side and most of its parishioners are black, but there is no racial litmus test for joining. As Christian Post columnist Martin E. Marty observed in April 2007, "being 'unashamedly black' does not mean being 'anti-white.' My wife and I on occasion attend, and, like all other non-blacks, are enthusiastically welcomed."

Martin E. Marty :

And before any of you even get ahead of yourselves and call Marty an Obama sympathiser :

The University of Chicago Martin Marty Center

April 2, 2007 printer-friendly version
Keeping the Faith at Trinity United Church of Christ

— Martin E. Marty

Note: This is not an endorsement of Senator Obama as a candidate.

Note: This is not a non-endorsement of Senator Obama as a candidate.

Note: I don't do endorsements.

Note: This is not even about Senator Obama.

It is about Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, where the Senator was converted and is a member. Some editorials and the more strident TV networks and radio talkmeisters tell its story wrong, no doubt intentionally. Friendship for the church and its staff, and a desire to help set the church-reporting record straight, impel some comment here.

My sources for this Sightings are, of course, personal experience of the place and the people of Trinity — plus a dissertation and a book: Chicago Theological Seminary Professor Julia Speller's Walkin' the Talk: Keepin' the Faith in Africentric Congregations. I read the manuscript with care to write the foreword, and was familiar with the subject of the chapter on Trinity, since Speller was my dissertation advisee when she wrote a full-length work on the suddenly lime-lighted church. Not that it has ever been a shrinking violet, thanks to the energies of the people and the personalities on the staff, including the soon-retiring Pastor Jeremiah Wright. But now it's on the spot.

Just because I want to smack a little further those who will attack Martin and call him a liberal :

Martin E. Marty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Martin Emil Marty (b. February 5, 1928, West Point, Nebraska) is an American Lutheran religious scholar who has written extensively on 19th century and 20th century American religion. He received a Ph.D. from the University of Chicago. He served as a Lutheran pastor from 1952 to 1962 in the suburbs of Chicago. From 1963 to 1998 he taught at the University of Chicago Divinity School, held an endowed chair, and now holds emeritus status. He has served Saint Olaf College in Northfield, Minnesota since 1988 as Regent, Board Chair, Interim President in late 2000, and now as Senior Regent. He has been a columnist for The Christian Century magazine since 1956. He has authored over 5,000 articles and been conferred with 75 honorary doctorates. His published works include Righteous Empire: The Protestant Experience in America (1970), for which he won the National Book Award, the encyclopedic five-volume Fundamentalism Project[1], co-edited with historian R. Scott Appleby, and the biography, Martin Luther (2004). Marty is the father of Minnesota State Senator John Marty.

The man knows his stuff.

 

[the makeout hobo]

The facts :

Barack Obama's Church [p. 2]





Martin E. Marty :

And before any of you even get ahead of yourselves and call Marty an Obama sympathiser :

The University of Chicago Martin Marty Center

I think its just funny to even suggest that a mulatto (note: is it still alright to use the word mulatto?) man who was raised by his white grandparents in the white/islander state of Hawaii, is racist against white people.

 

[Hatuey]

I think its just funny to even suggest that a mulatto (note: is it still alright to use the word mulatto?) man who was raised by his white grandparents in the white/islander state of Hawaii, is racist against white people.

It is. But I love hearing conservatives suggest it.

Shortly after he put on his black panther limited edition track suit and while he slashed their throats, he screamed "Under any means necessary!!!"

 

[the makeout hobo]

It is. But I love hearing conservatives suggest it.

I remember you mentioning you were mixed race. Is mulatto still an acceptable term?

 

[1069]

I think its just funny to even suggest that a mulatto (note: is it still alright to use the word mulatto?) man who was raised by his white grandparents in the white/islander state of Hawaii, is racist against white people.

It's white people who are racist.
They don't care about Obama's white mother or the fact that he was raised by his white grandparents.
They look at him, see brown skin, and think "black".
He could be one-sixteenth black, a white guy with a dead black great-great grandmother somewhere far, far back in history... and people would still look at him and think "black".

 

[Hatuey]

I remember you mentioning you were mixed race. Is mulatto still an acceptable term?

Truth be told I don't really care. I call myself biracial and have no shame in the fact. Neither does Obama apparently. It can be strenuous because factions in both sides expect you to act a certain way but I don't really let it get to me.

 

[Thorgasm]

Thanks for the great homework Hatuey! :2wave:

 

[The silenced majority]

You guys can spin this however you want - patting yourselves on the back as you do so...


It still doesn't diminish the facts that: 1.) the pastor of Barak Obama's particular TUCC church has proved demonstrably to be a stone-hearted racist & 2.) Barak was a member of the church for a long enough time to realize exactly the type of garbage this guy was spewing forth from the pulpit...

 

[Hatuey]

You guys can spin this however you want - patting yourselves on the back as you do so...

Who spun anything? Martin E. Marty? I presented his findings and the facts. No spin son.

It still doesn't diminish the facts that: 1.) the pastor of Barak Obama's particular TUCC church has proved demonstrably to be a stone-hearted racist & 2.)

1. Why would a racist allow whites to attend his church?

Barak was a member of the church for a long enough time to realize exactly the type of garbage this guy was spewing forth from the pulpit...

2. If so the same can be said about McCains relation to Hagee.

 

[the makeout hobo]

You guys can spin this however you want - patting yourselves on the back as you do so...


It still doesn't diminish the facts that: 1.) the pastor of Barak Obama's particular TUCC church has proved demonstrably to be a stone-hearted racist & 2.) Barak was a member of the church for a long enough time to realize exactly the type of garbage this guy was spewing forth from the pulpit...

I have a fairly good post on this topic in "elections" titled "my father". Give it a read sometime.

 

[Thorgasm]

You guys can spin this however you want - patting yourselves on the back as you do so...


It still doesn't diminish the facts that: 1.) the pastor of Barak Obama's particular TUCC church has proved demonstrably to be a stone-hearted racist & 2.) Barak was a member of the church for a long enough time to realize exactly the type of garbage this guy was spewing forth from the pulpit...

Does that mean that you still would never vote for him?

 

[The silenced majority]

Who spun anything? Martin E. Marty? I presented his findings and the facts. No spin son.

So what? He's a EDIT *WHITE* liberal appologist for black class warfare bigotry.

....Gigs of that sh!t on the INTERNET

1. Why would a racist allow whites to attend his church?

See above.

2. If so the same can be said about McCains relation to Hagee.

McCain attended his church for 20 years, baptized his children there & was married by him?

McCain Suck$ anyhow.

 

[The silenced majority]

Does that mean that you still would never vote for him?

Yes & it also means that I'm going to do whatever I can to shed the light on this vacuous character who has so many roused by his lofty empty speeches...


He isn't a very good judge of character, willing to sacrifice principle for 'street cred' or he's a racist too. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Any way you slice it, he has no business being the next president.

 

[Hatuey]

So what? He's a liberal appologist for black class warfare bigotry.

Still waiting for the part where you disprove anything he says.

...Gigs of that sh!t on the INTERNET

Which just happens to be written on the website of the university he teaches in.

See above.

I ask again. Why would a racist allow whites in his church?

McCain attended his church for 20 years, baptized his children there & was married by him?

No but he was apparently "proud" of Hagee and the way his church. At least from the 1st of March to the 6th.

McCain Suck$ anyhow.

Still waiting for the part where you show Obama is a racist.

 

[The silenced majority]

Still waiting for the part where you disprove anything he says.

Did he dispel the 'fact' that the 'white' government created AIDS to kill black people???

Hey Hatuey, this may come as a surprise to you, but there are actually rather radical left wingers who use the Church to advance their agenda. It's not something that the religious right has a monopoly on.

That chick from the video you posted the other day was more of the same...

Which just happens to be written on the website of the university he teaches in.

Cool.

No leftists in academia - given.

I ask again. Why would a racist allow whites in his church?

See above.

No but he was apparently "proud" of Hagee and the way his church. At least from the 1st of March to the 6th.

McCain suck$.

Ask Galenrox.

 

[Hatuey]

Did he dispel the 'fact' that the 'white' government created AIDS to kill black people???

Wide held belief by pretty much all blacks who lived in the 60s. Doesn't make it and doesn't mean Obama agrees with such.

Hey Hatuey, this may come as a surprise to you, but there are actually rather radical left wingers who use the Church to advance their agenda. It's not something that the religious right has a monopoly on.

That chick from the video you posted the other day was more of the same...

Still waiting for the part where you disprove what they're saying.

Cool.

No leftists in academia - given.

You lost me now. Are you saying what he wrote is false because it was the internet?

See above.

So you're not going to answer?

 

[The silenced majority]

Wide held belief by pretty much all blacks who lived in the 60s. Doesn't make it and doesn't mean Obama agrees with such.

No, it doesn't mean Barak agrees with it.

His MENTOR does though.

Still waiting for the part where you disprove what they're saying.

They're entitled to their opinions. I have the opinion that Jeremiah Wright is a stone hearted racist. I use his words to come to that conclusion...

You lost me now. Are you saying what he wrote is false because it was the internet?

I never said anything he (Marty Martin) said was 'false'. He's entitled to his own opinion and judgment. He may not see a racist in Jeremiah Wright. He may also fall for all the "social/economic justice" crap too.

So you're not going to answer?

Obama's pastor is a racist, does that make Obama a racist?

No.

It just makes Obama either a poor judge of a character or someone chooses his associations on a basis of political expediency - in this case 'street cred'.

I said, as I have before, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe it's the former - not the latter.

 

[the makeout hobo]

No, it doesn't mean Barak agrees with it.

His MENTOR does though.





They're entitled to their opinions. I have the opinion that Jeremiah Wright is a stone hearted racist. I use his words to come to that conclusion...





I never said anything he (Marty Martin) said was 'false'. He's entitled to his own opinion and judgment. He may not see a racist in Jeremiah Wright. He may also fall for all the "social/economic justice" crap too.





Obama's pastor is a racist, does that make Obama a racist?

No.

It just makes Obama either a poor judge of a character or someone chooses his associations on a basis of political expediency - in this case 'street cred'.

I said, as I have before, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe it's the former - not the latter.

He chose his association on a basis of political expediency? What a bunch of bull. He started going to the church 20 years ago, most likely because he was a community organizer and this was where his community went. That's likely when he met Wright and started attending TUCC. To say it was due to his political ambitions is disingenuous.

 

[Hatuey]

No, it doesn't mean Barak agrees with it.

His MENTOR does though.

You're fond of the guilty by association fallacy aren't you?

They're entitled to their opinions. I have the opinion that Jeremiah Wright is a stone hearted racist. I use his words to come to that conclusion..

.

Oh so you mean you have nothing that would discredit Martin E. Marty, a known religious scholar and pastor, and show why you're more qualified then him to formulate such an opinion? Alright then.

I never said anything he (Marty Martin) said was 'false'.

You know he explained why the church wasn't racist right?

He's entitled to his own opinion and judgment. He may not see a racist in Jeremiah Wright. He may also fall for all the "social/economic justice" crap too.

So you have no idea how a Christian scholar & historian with nearly 40 years of experience in religious affairs arrived at such an opinion?

Obama's pastor is a racist, does that make Obama a racist?

No.

It just makes Obama either a poor judge of a character or someone chooses his associations on a basis of political expediency - in this case 'street cred'.

I said, as I have before, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe it's the former - not the latter.

So a half white man gets the benefit of the doubt that he's not racist. :roll: kk.

 

[Tashah]

I personally wouldn't characterize Obama as a closet racist. Nevertheless, as a presidential candidate, I think Obama must certainly be held accountable for his associations with unsavory characters such as with Rezko and Wright.

This isn't about Clinton or McCain and their foibles. At core, the Wright fiasco is about Obama's judgement, and being satisfied with a faux equivalency of each candidate's foibles is disingenuous and dishonest.

After consecutive twin terms by Clinton and Bush, I want my next president to have high integrity, excellent judgement, and the moral fiber to actually live by the convictions that he or she publicly espouses.

To imagine that Wright had no connection whatsoever with Obama's political ambitions is not true. In his 2004 US Senate victory speech, Obama thanked Wright for his contributions to the successful campaign. Obama knew of Wright's basic socio-political philosophy for at least the past year. He has previously described Wright as his spiritual mentor and a political advisor. Yet at no time previous to this past week did Obama repudiate Wright's more outrageous remarks, or disassociate himself from this political albatross.

At the very least, this points to either an inability or an unwillingness to see the bigger picture. I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican, and I endeavor to always embrace the best candidate regardless of their political affiliation, ethnicity, or gender. I hold every candidate accountable to the exact same rudimentary and core expectations.

Like it or not, Barack has suffered extensive political damage this past week. Without doubt, his staunch supporters will continue to support him, and his naysayers will of course continue to attack and ridicule. His possible November fate however, will in all probability be decided by the independent non-aligned swing block. People like me. In all honesty, I truly hope he rebounds and can realize his promise. Just my :twocents:

 

[The silenced majority]

He chose his association on a basis of political expediency? What a bunch of bull. He started going to the church 20 years ago, most likely because he was a community organizer and this was where his community went. That's likely when he met Wright and started attending TUCC. To say it was due to his political ambitions is disingenuous.

Then he chose the church, because he must agree with the message there, how hard is that for you to conclude?


Why else would you stay at a church pastored by a racist for 20 years?

Either that or he's (Barak) to oblivious to realize after 20 years what Jeremiah Wright is all about.

I was willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt.

You won't let me.

Either way you slice it he's unfit to be president.

 

[The silenced majority]

You're fond of the guilty by association fallacy aren't you?

No I'm fond of hold a vacuous politician accountable for the associations that he freely chose, touted and held until it started to hurt him politically.....

.

Oh so you mean you have nothing that would discredit Martin E. Marty, a known religious scholar and pastor, and show why you're more qualified then him to formulate such an opinion? Alright then.

C'mon man. I'm supposed to be beholden to this guy because he says Wright isn't a racist?

I have 2 ears thanks...

You know he explained why the church wasn't racist right?

He explained *in his opinion why the church isn't racist. I don't thin it's a *racist church myself & that all of the attendees are *racists. The pastor has proved demonstrably to be quite capable of going on racially charged tirades on more than one occasion.

I question anyone's judgment who would continue to attend that church or allow Wright to remain as the pastor.

So you have no idea how a Christian scholar & historian with nearly 40 years of experience in religious affairs arrived at such an opinion?

He's a Christian theologian. Does that make him an expert on geopolitics, society, political science and psychology as well?

I care not to deduce how Martin arrives at his conclusions. He could be a left-wing crack-pot (and probably is) for wanting to give a bigot like Wright a pass.

So a half white man gets the benefit of the doubt that he's not racist. :roll: kk.

No he's a 1/2 white politician who has to throw a bone to fringe elements like Wright in order to demonstrate that he's 'down with the struggle'. That really explains it all.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

YouTube - Jeremiah Wright on Fox

 

[Thorgasm]

YouTube - Jeremiah Wright on Fox

So a minority can't speak on behalf of a minority?

 

[The silenced majority]

So a minority can't speak on behalf of a minority?

Sure.

And a racist can speak out on behalf of his race, just as we can speak out on behalf of common sense and fairness.


I :kissy: Amendment I