Is more stringent gun control inevitable?[W:1622]

[AmericanSpartan]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

How can you say that when you have both the highest gun crime and incarceration rates in the developed world.

International Comparison '.org': Crime and Incarceration Statistics per Country

Pretty compelling evidence that your system certainly doesn't work

USA: First in World in Gun Ownership – Not Even in Top 100 Countries for Murder Rate - Freedom Outpost

And more then 1/3 of all people in our jails are immigrants...

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

The point being such laws are worthless unless they are made universal across all states

Well that is not going to happen we have the 10th Amendment and the concept of Federalism.

Do not like it? Deal with it.

 

[flogger]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

Mother Jones: Fewer Deaths Per Mass Shooting in U.S. Versus Attacks Abroad - Breitbart

2012 is tragic, but mass shootings not increasing, experts say - latimes

We have more then 3 times the population, more over have you seen the common factor? SSRI meds.

Every mass shooting over last 20 years has one thing in common... and it's not guns - NaturalNews.com

Better take it up with your own FBI and your Congressional Research Service then because they disagree

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/25/us/25shooters.html?_r=1

There were, on average, 16.4 such shootings a year from 2007 to 2013, compared with an average of 6.4 shootings annually from 2000 to 2006. In the past 13 years, 486 people have been killed in such shootings, with 366 of the deaths in the past seven years. In all, the study looked at 160 shootings since 2000.

Report: Mass public shootings on rise

Mass public shootings have increased in frequency from 1.1 a year to 4.5 a year since the 1970s, according to a new report by the Congressional Research Service.

The research found that a dozen mass public shootings since 1970 have had double-digit death tolls. Seven of those have occurred since 2007.

Pardon me if I don't take reports from sources like 'AmmoLand.com' too seriously :lamo

 

[haymarket]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

Well that is not going to happen we have the 10th Amendment and the concept of Federalism.

Do not like it? Deal with it.

Neither prohibit national laws dealing with a national problem. We have national laws today and have had them for a very long time now in addition to states having their own laws. National laws dealing with firearms have passed Constitutional muster and are perfectly valid and proper.

 

[flogger]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

USA: First in World in Gun Ownership – Not Even in Top 100 Countries for Murder Rate - Freedom Outpost

And once we filter out the tinpot third world banana republics from your pro gun blog and compare it with devoloped nations this is what we find

And more then 1/3 of all people in our jails are immigrants...

You think your are the only country with an immigrant problem ? You lock up vastly more people per capita then even Russia or China and incarcerate more people than any other nation on earth !

Whatever happened to 'give me your tired huddled masses yearning to be free' ?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

And were people or cars coming into that zone searched for guns before they entered then ? If they weren't then theres no such thing as a gun free zone then is there ?

so you are now saying its not really a gun free zone unless there are armed authorities to guarantee that?

 

[haymarket]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

so you are now saying its not really a gun free zone unless there are armed authorities to guarantee that?

The poster is merely pointing out the reality of life in a nation with some 300 million firearms.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

The poster is merely pointing out the reality of life in a nation with some 300 million firearms.

GFZs normally are based on the hope that people will actually obey them. Now gun free zones like courthouses where there are armed security and screening with metal detectors are a different matter.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

GFZs normally are based on the hope that people will actually obey them. Now gun free zones like courthouses where there are armed security and screening with metal detectors are a different matter.

I believe you and I have covered this topic before - the distinction between legally designated gun free zones and the reality of hardly any actual place in America being actually gun free.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

I believe you and I have covered this topic before - the distinction between legally designated gun free zones and the reality of hardly any actual place in America being actually gun free.

well we know that active killers bring firearms into gun free zones where they can kill lots of disarmed victims

 

[haymarket]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

well we know that active killers bring firearms into gun free zones where they can kill lots of disarmed victims

Killers bring firearms into areas where others carry weapons and they can attempt to kill lots of victims - both armed and unarmed.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

Killers bring firearms into areas where others carry weapons and they can attempt to kill lots of victims - both armed and unarmed.

but most of the places where the most people were killed were ones where the victims were unarmed. That is the real point

armed victims-less victims

unarmed victims-more killed

 

[flogger]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

so you are now saying its not really a gun free zone unless there are armed authorities to guarantee that?

I'm saying gun free zones are a myth in the US for reasons already explained

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

I'm saying gun free zones are a myth for reasons already explained

so why have an area where the only people who are disarmed are potential victims? I am not the one who supports such zones but in areas where they may have validity-like inside a prison or a courthouse, proper armed agents and access control are needed.


nonsense like the laws of Chicago or DC or places like the Aurora theater should be eliminated

 

[flogger]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

so why have an area where the only people who are disarmed are potential victims?

Statistically people who are armed are far more likely to be victims and usually from the firearms allegedly being kept at home for defence. As well you know there have been multiple studies linked here in the past confirming this. Not that it will make the slightest difference to you but here is another

http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable15.pdf

The study, which was released Wednesday, shows that gun owners committed only 259 “justifiable homicides” involving a gun, compared to 8,342 criminal gun homicides in 2012. This brings the ratio to about 32 criminal gun homicides for every one justifiable gun homicide.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

but most of the places where the most people were killed were ones where the victims were unarmed. That is the real point

armed victims-less victims

unarmed victims-more killed

I have provided you with a detailed study showing names and dates and places which show that your statement is a falsehood.

I think your approach to this and my approach to this is vastly different - as is most of our views on guns - due to one thing above all other: you and I are the opposite in our view of the role of guns in America and if we want our nation to be a more gun centric country.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

Statistically people who are armed are far more likely to be victims and usually from the firearms allegedly being kept at home for defence. As well you know there have been multiple studies linked here in the past confirming this. Not that it will make the slightest difference to you but here is another

http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable15.pdf

The study, which was released Wednesday, shows that gun owners committed only 259 “justifiable homicides” involving a gun, compared to 8,342 criminal gun homicides in 2012. This brings the ratio to about 32 criminal gun homicides for every one justifiable gun homicide.

that is a false argument coming from the vile propaganda center which intermixes lawful gun owners with illegal gun owners.

sorry but The VPC has no credibility. They are the ones who told the press to deliberately confuse people between semi auto rifles and machine guns.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

I have provided you with a detailed study showing names and dates and places which show that your statement is a falsehood.

I think your approach to this and my approach to this is vastly different - as is most of our views on guns - due to one thing above all other: you and I are the opposite in our view of the role of guns in America and if we want our nation to be a more gun centric country.

no you haven't. what you have appear to have done is claim that because there are only a few mass shootings, they were prevented by gun free zones. I want more honest people who want to be armed to be able to be armed

 

[flogger]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

that is a false argument coming from the vile propaganda center which intermixes lawful gun owners with illegal gun owners.

Please illustrate where it got it wrong by citing the correct figures. It could have made it look four times worse still if it had chosen to reference all firearms deaths so I doubt its quite as 'vile' as you are painting it

sorry but The VPC has no credibility. They are the ones who told the press to deliberately confuse people between semi auto rifles and machine guns.

Only someone totally obsessed with the minutae of firearms nomenclature could get upset about something like that ! Do you think the victims families cared about such a distinction ? :roll:

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

Please illustrate where it got it wrong by citing the correct figures. It could have made it look four times worse still if it had chosen to reference all firearms deaths so I doubt its quite as 'vile' as you are painting it



Only someone totally obsessed with the minutae of firearms nomenclature could get upset about something like that ! Do you think the victims families cared about such a distinction :roll:

over 80% of murders with firearms are caused by those who cannot legally own guns. Defensive shootings-which are but a small part of Defensive gun uses-are by legal owners.


its not minutae, it was vile dishonesty. and trying to claim that the victims views somehow excuses that is the type of nonsense we see all the time from the most dishonest group in American politics-the gun ban movement

 

[flogger]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

over 80% of murders with firearms are caused by those who cannot legally own guns. Defensive shootings-which are but a small part of Defensive gun uses-are by legal owners.

And as was illustrated at great length and in great detail earlier its those same legal gun owners that are the primary source for those guns being in criminal hands. And before you ask . No .

I'm not going to post it all or repeat it all over again for you

ts not minutae, it was vile dishonesty. and trying to claim that the victims views somehow excuses that is the type of nonsense we see all the time from the most dishonest group in American politics-the gun ban movement

Vile dishonesty eh ? And this from someone who puts the rights of gun owners far above a victims right to life.

Sick :roll:

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

And as was illustrated at great length and in great detail earlier its those same legal gun owners that are the primary source for those guns being in criminal hands. And before you ask . No .

I'm not going to post it all or repeat it all over again for you



Vile dishonesty eh ? And this from someone who puts the rights of gun owners far above a victims right to life.

Sick :roll:

the vile dishonesty is pretending that honest gun owners are the same as criminals killing innocents

you are on record for wanting to ban all guns in private citizens hands. Thus every restriction you argue for is nothing more than another step towards a complete ban. You put your fear of honest citizens above the public good and freedom

 

[Crimefree]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

And as was illustrated at great length and in great detail earlier its those same legal gun owners that are the primary source for those guns being in criminal hands. And before you ask . No .

Criminals will simply get guns from the easiest most available source. There is absolutely no argument on that.

Your petty disdainful accusation that it is gun owners that supply criminals shows the kind of person you are. Nobody is or can be held responsible for the actions of others and the oppressive unnatural beliefs of gun control advocates are anti-social and dangerous to a safe society.

What next banks held responsible because they have money? You are not a nice person suggesting it is others fault. It is as much even more so yours for diverting police investigation and resources to chasing guns instead of arresting criminals.

I'm not going to post it all or repeat it all over again for you

Good because it is crap.

Vile dishonesty eh ? And this from someone who puts the rights of gun owners far above a victims right to life.

What can be more dishonest than creating safe shooting galleries for criminals and nuts. disarming the victims of crime so that a few rabid psychotic paranoid delusional people can demand their oppressive and foul agenda. All to make every day Christmas day for criminals and nuts. Yes the criminals friends, gun control want the victims of crime disarmed and want to be thanked for this psychotic disease they have.

Sick :roll:

On that I agree with you.

 

[flogger]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

the vile dishonesty is pretending that honest gun owners are the same as criminals killing innocents

I believe that its the views of people like you that protect and idolatrise firearms above all else that are the most dangeous issue your society faces

You put your fear of honest citizens above the public good and freedom

I believe the 'outing' of extremism wherever I find it and in whatever form it takes a laudable goal. I certainly can make no apologies for that

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Is more stringent gun control inevitable?

I believe that its the views of people like you that protect and idolatrise firearms above all else that are the most dangeous issue your society faces



I believe the 'outing' extremism wherever I find it and in whatever form it takes a laudible goal. I certainly can make no apologies for that

I believe people who falsely claim that crime control motivates their hysterical anti gun claims are the reason why good people need to be armed. Wanting to ban all citizen owned firearms is among the most extreme positions anyone can have. so if extremism is what you want to out, look to your own opinions first

remember, this is the USA, not some has been declining Eurosocialist nanny state where the people are Sheep and the government is full of cowardly inbreds who fear their subjects