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Is man perfectible?

Is man perfectible or imperfect?


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reefedjib

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I was thinking these past few days about whether people can change their behavior, their choices and actions, for the better. Can man consistently make choices for altruistic reasons? Certainly there are some individuals who do it, but do you think the progress of the human race is such that more and more people will do so? Can man learn to act for social good, rather than personal interest? Or does man act only out of selfishness and self-interest and must be limited to the damage they cause one another? Is man perfectible?
 
Man is powerful but limited. The nature of man won't change until we completely evolve out of current biology.
 
The "Age of Ideology" proved that man is not to be perfected. Between 1789 and 1991, a select few decided that their systems of organization would bring utopia or a "perfect" society. Unfortunately for the hundreds of millions of corpses between Berlin and Cambodia, the imperfect man proved to always dissapoint the "perfect" system. There's a reason the word democracy is not an -ism. Only in a system where men are free to be imperfect can a society be the most healthy.
 
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Man is a curious primate with opposable thumbs and upright posture. We are what we are. Thinking about it in terms of perfect and imperfect is a false dichotomy.

Where is the thread on perfecting alligators?
 

In western societies:

What you called selfishness saved the lives of all those miners in Chile. It encouraged the production of technology that saved lives. Capitalism brings out the greater good of people. Not all, but better than any other system. It's why Americans are the most philanthropic of people.

Communism at the other end created barbarism.

Socialism destroys philanthropy and altruistic behavior, as people have less, struggle more, and point to the state when someone needs "help". This leads to corruption, favoritism and resentment.

Tell me, what is more compassionate? Reducing investment because the investors might make fantastic profits, and spreading the wealth around; being hostile to business and individuals making great profits, and having people die because of it? Or allowing people to profit from their ingenuity, fostering the creation jobs and life saving technology?



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Is man perfectible?

My dog thinks so.
 

Man is imperfect. In fact, nature is imperfect.
The Greeks spent years and years trying to define perfection - and what did it do for them?

People are better off when they accept their imperfections and weaknesses and then embrace those weakenesses and call them uniquenesses.
 
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As a general rule, humans act in whatever manner they believe will best serve their own best interest.
This is as far as predicability can go, given that everyone's perception of their own best interest varies.
 
As a general rule, humans act in whatever manner they believe will best serve their own best interest.
This is as far as predicability can go, given that everyone's perception of their own best interest varies.

How often do you think society's best interest and individuals' best interest match up? If other words, how often will a person's self interest be harmful to society? As so to the primary question, can man learn to align his self interest with society's?
 

I believe most people seeking their self interest, benefit society.
Not necessarily align with what society wants but definitely benefits it.
 
How often do you think society's best interest and individuals' best interest match up?
I'd say they generally do, though that is dependent on the society.

As so to the primary question, can man learn to align his self interest with society's?
Ultimately, self interest is derived from emotional attachment; man's actions are based on those attachments. You do not generally 'align' your emotional attachments - they are a product of who you are, something people rarely decide to change - and as such are unlikely to 'align' your self-interest with anything or anyone.
 
Only God is perfect but we are incapable of understanding that perfection, as we are imperfect beings. That does not mean we cannot strive toward love and goodness though. In fact, it is the only route to our elevation.
 
Perfection is perhaps an incorrect term for describing the maximum capabilities of a human being, however, since age fourteen, I myself have been striving to find out how close i can get.


It is possible to disregard your own self interest and use your BRAIN to figure the best choice you could make in any given situation, I live my life this way, and I would like to believe that others could just as well, it just requires a small change of perspective.

I have have spent years studying the thoughts, morals, and philosophys of the greatest men the earth has seen, such as: Socrates, Plato, & Aristotle. Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, Isaac Newton, Benjamin Franklin, Albert Einstein, and Jesus Christ, just to name a few.

None of whom were perfect in the literal sense, but I am one who believes that everyone can be perfect in their own way. None the less I feel that we should all strive to be like these people, using intelligence and intellect to solve our problems. We can live life honestly, and do more good for others than we do for ourselves.

A perfect human would consist of what traits?

I think;
Unbiased honesty, justice, compassion, respect, intelligence, and logic. &the names i mentioned above would agree.
 
It sounds like perfectibility in Tocqueville: always improving, but never reaching "perfection."
 
It sounds like perfectibility in Tocqueville: always improving, but never reaching "perfection."

That was my thoughts about it as well. What does Tocqueville have to say about it?
 
First, one would have to define perfection. That may be harder than a person actually striving for that perceived 'perfection'.

A person could strive for perfection, but at what point would that be reached and who defines what that even is?
 
That was my thoughts about it as well. What does Tocqueville have to say about it?

It's an interesting section.


 
It's an interesting section.

This is interesting. It sounds to me as if he talks about both systemic knowledge, as well as intellectual capacity and evolution. It is through the combined efforts of the classless people that improvements are made. Am I wrong in my interpretation?
 
Nah, you are about there. The only things is that with Tocqueville, he believes there is often a give-and-take situation with democracy. Part of him believes that democracy, or, rather, equality, gives you a favorable disposition that believes much is possible and with their system, much does change and perhaps improves. Then, the other half of him believes that democracy either overemphasizes just how much perfectibility can be had, and I guess not put in that section (but discussed later..I always forget that about the guy-he revisits a topic without warning) he says that democracy removes the degree to which an individual can make a difference.
 
Perfection is impossible, but I think that is beside the point of the question.

Man is improvable, but only in accordance with his nature. The failure of previous attempts at building a utopia lies squarely on the fact that previous utopias sought to improve Man without understanding him.
 
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