Is it fair to the child?

"Former claim," I believe, referred to the existence of the ideal family. "Latter" claim was that you knew what the ideal family was.

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Precisely.
I'm extremely dubious of the claim that there is an empirical "ideal" family.
Therefore, it's not possible for me to accept that Felicity or anyone else knows what is ideal for every family.

disneydude said:

Oh...I see, when a right-winger makes a baseless claim that a loving hard working mother is selfish for wanting to have a child.....that is opinion....or as you would call it fact.

When I say that you are selfish for attempting to impose your narrow-minded view of what constitutes a family on everyone....that is a personal attack.

Sounds like you can dish it out but can't take it.

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Proving my point.

I just purchased three books for my children whom are all new parents. For the boys.

"Why a son needs a Dad"

For my daughter

"Why a son needs a Mom"

Everyone who choose to attack the young women who wrote a heartfelt essay on what it is like for a child to never have had a father and choose to attack me rather than the issue would do themselves well to read them. Perhaps a little compassion would be learned from the experience.

Stinger said:

I just purchased three books for my children whom are all new parents. For the boys.

"Why a son needs a Dad"

For my daughter

"Why a son needs a Mom"

Everyone who choose to attack the young women who wrote a heartfelt essay on what it is like for a child to never have had a father and choose to attack me rather than the issue would do themselves well to read them. Perhaps a little compassion would be learned from the experience.

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I recommend you read "The Demon-Haunted World" by Carl Sagan. It'll teach you how to construct a rational argument devoid of these kinds of logical fallacies. Perhaps a little critical thinking would be learned from the experience.

I recommend you read "The Demon-Haunted World" by Carl Sagan.

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I used to love Sagan when I was a kid.
Have you read "The Dragons of Eden"?
Fascinating.

1069 said:

Precisely.
I'm extremely dubious of the claim that there is an empirical "ideal" family.
Therefore, it's not possible for me to accept that Felicity or anyone else knows what is ideal for every family.

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Any child abandoned by their biological parents feels something in regard to that abandonment. There may be degrees in how much they feel or how much they let it affect them and that is probably greatly dependent on the strength and compassion of those who have stepped in to take the biological parents obligations over. So adopted children can have wonderful lives and be incredibly happy people as can anyone who was raised by someone other than their biological parents.

However the idea that your biological mother or father has choosen for whatever reason not to be involved in your life has got to have some amount of "sting" and whether the sting is great or a small nuisance that they rarely think about I'm sure it's there. I'm certain they'd rather have that sting than be dead though.

Kandahar said:

I recommend you read "The Demon-Haunted World" by Carl Sagan. It'll teach you how to construct a rational argument devoid of these kinds of logical fallacies. Perhaps a little critical thinking would be learned from the experience.

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Since Carl Sagan was never an expert in child development......

Hey I am more than happy to let you statements stand. The lack of compassion is blaring. And anyone who would state that mothers and fathers have no unique specific roles in the rearing of children is either ignorant or speaking like a fool. Next time you go to a funeral and a young boy is crying because he has lost his daddy just go up to him and tell him to "suck it up".

How would a child lose a daddy if he never had one to begin with? Your statement is completely irrelevant.

It's like me saying "You don't think gays should have kids? Next time you see a Burger King you should go through the Drive Through and buy a Whopper!" Unrelated.

It's like me saying "You don't think gays should have kids? Next time you see a Burger King you should go through the Drive Through and buy a Whopper!" Unrelated.

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... :2rofll:

Good one.

Skip said:

How would a child lose a daddy if he never had one to begin with? Your statement is completely irrelevant.

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Every child has a biological father. Even if the child doesn't know the father they eventually understand and are well aware that their father is absent. It's not as if they are unaware of a biological father's existance. There is no such thing as a child who never had a dad just a child who doesn't know his dad.

Stinger said:

Perhaps a little compassion would be learned from the experience.

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Yes....I am so very sorry that she grew up in a loving home with a mother who obviously loved her and worked hard to provide for her. The picture of her having to endure that type of home environment is almost too much to bear.

disneydude said:

Yes....I am so very sorry that she grew up in a loving home with a mother who obviously loved her and worked hard to provide for her. The picture of her having to endure that type of home environment is almost too much to bear.

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Yeah, just suck it up.

Kelzie said:

I find it so odd that someone is bitching about being alive. Forced to choose between being conceived through science and not being conceived at all...well let's just say this poor girl needs to grow up, be thankful for what she's got and stop whining.

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I don't know. She's not bitching about being alive. She feels she has a right to her "ancestry" so to speak. A right to know who created her. She's saying that even though her biological father is a donor and that both parents agreed his donation would be all that was required of him she wants more. It's not such a ridiculous or absurd request to know your biological parents as well as your family history. In fact for medical reasons knowing your genetic background is quite useful, how else are you gonna fill out those long arse questionaires at the drs. office?

Basically the writer is saying, "Who the hell are you all to agree that I don't need to know about my father, my past, my ancestry, ect." And I think it's a valid and legitimate question.

People often whine about alot less. Knowing your family history is important to many many cultures around the world so it's not such a shocker that a sperm donor's child will grow up wanting to meet daddy donor.

Hatuey said:

I have a question : If a straight couple have a child and the father dies in an unforseen event leaving the mother to take care of the baby. Should the mother be forced to remarry?

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You're missing the point I think. If you know your father is dead that's one thing. If you know he is walking around completely oblivious to you, ignoring you if you will, and paying no regard or respect to the fact that he is your father that's naturally going to provoke a whole different set of feelings. And if you don't know anything about your biological parents and aren't even sure if they're alive or not you may try and find out. That's completely normal behavior.

Kandahar said:

Since when did having a father become a "basic right"?

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It's not a basic right it's a fact of life. We all have or had fathers. Their level of participation varies but there is noone who wasn't fathered.

talloulou said:

It's not a basic right it's a fact of life. We all have or had fathers. Their level of participation varies but there is noone who wasn't fathered.

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The bolded text undermines your point.

Skip said:

Allright I'm reposting this question so Stinger can't claim he didn't see it when he finally returns. This question is also open to everyone who voted "No" on the poll.

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Your question was should a woman whose man left her abort his child?

I'd say no. But even though that man just up and left and even if that woman finds a new man or raises the kid alone and gives the kid a happy stable home the kid very well may want to track down his biological father at some point. That's human nature. Most people have a drive to know where they came from. That's not saying their life isn't worth living if they don't know where they come from but the desire to know is natural.

I didn't view the article as being against same sex couples so much as viewing it as being against anyone abandoning their child completely. If I were part of a lesbian couple and wanted to have a baby I'd try to find a man who wanted to be a father and have him be involved in the kids life. That's not because I believe lesbians can't raise kids on their own I just believe kids benefit from not being abandoned by their bioligical parents. And yes there are situations where the biological parent is so rotten that the kid may well be better off abandoned by that person but the idea of setting up a situation where everyone involved agrees the biological parent is not going to be around.....setting up that situation on purpose is like giving the kid a scar right from the get go. And yeah kids are gonna get scars and they can overcome and adjust depending on how great their support system is but still why do it?

Men should probably know and understand if they give up some donor sperm they may very well end up with kids on their doorstep in the future trying to get a look at "daddy." The same goes for adoptive parents. Adoption is great! I fully support it. But people who give babies up for adoption have to be prepared for the possibility that the kid may come looking for them eventually no matter how great the adoptive parents were.

Kandahar said:

The bolded text undermines your point.

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Hmm how so? I'm just making the point that everyone has a father. Just because your father chooses to only be a "donor" that doesn't make him any less your father. You can't argue how can someone miss something that never existed or since when is having a father a right. That's just crazy talk. Everyone has a father. The differences are in how your father related to you. Does he know you, ignore you, care about you, ect..... But your father is your father.

Imagine if you had a missing brother. It wouldn't matter if you had other brothers, or sisters, or great step-brothers, or great friends. That would all be great but it wouldn't lessen your curiosity for your missing brother would it?

talloulou said:

Your question was should a woman whose man left her abort his child?

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No it wasn't at all.

I didn't view the article as being against same sex couples so much as viewing it as being against anyone abandoning their child completely.

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It was more than that, it was purposely creating a child denied a mother or a father AT ALL.

But it turned out more than that, it exposed the left as to how heartless they are and how compassion goes out the window to protect homosexuality and making it a homosexual issue at all. It's about the children and will we recognize what is being done to THEM when women choose to have children they purposely deny a father and men allow their sperm to be the means so that they can feel they have passed on their progeny and not have to deal with it or support it. The adults in the equation come out fat and happy, but what about the life created? If you had to choose which of your parents weren't necessary, your mother or your father which would it be? What was unnecessary to you a Mom or a Dad?

talloulou said:

Imagine if you had a missing brother. It wouldn't matter if you had other brothers, or sisters, or great step-brothers, or great friends. That would all be great but it wouldn't lessen your curiosity for your missing brother would it?

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Imagine the hole it would leave in your heart and whole being. But then I haven't seen a lot of heart in this thread.

Stinger said:

Imagine the hole it would leave in your heart and whole being. But then I haven't seen a lot of heart in this thread.

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You'd have a hole in your heart and whole being if you discovered that you had a brother who you never met?

I've got a half brother who I've never met, but I don't have a hole in my whole being - or even half a hole for that matter. Would you/Do you?

Hell, my sister graduated high school with a girl we're pretty sure is our niece. No telling if we've got other half-brothers and -sisters, the way our Dad ran around.

Korimyr the Rat said:

Hell, my sister graduated high school with a girl we're pretty sure is our niece. No telling if we've got other half-brothers and -sisters, the way our Dad ran around.

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Well doesn't that bug you? The idea that you don't even know who your closest relatives are. Aren't ancestors and relatives a big part of your ideology?

talloulou said:

Well doesn't that bug you? The idea that you don't even know who your closest relatives are. Aren't ancestors and relatives a big part of your ideology?

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They are, but I know who my family is. The whole thing bothers me, but because I feel bad for them, not knowing who their ancestors are, not for me and my sister. (And because a lot of this "running around" occurred after my parents were married.)

Be happy to treat our "niece" like a member of the family, but she ain't willing to entertain the notion we're related and there's no point in pressing the issue. It's her call, and there's a chance it's all coincidence.