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[W:#299]Is Israel dying as the middle East's only liberal democracy?

j brown's body

"A Soros-backed animal"
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"Now, after the dust storm has settled, after the dimensions of the catastrophe have been revealed, Benjamin Netanyahu may be telling himself that after his sowing of chaos has achieved its goals – destroying the legal system, the police, education and anything that emits a whiff of “leftism” – he will be able to turn back the clock, erase or at least moderate the crazy, dishonest worldview he himself created and go back to leading us in a proper, legal, rational fashion. Back to being the responsible adult in a well-run country.

But at that point, he may well discover that from the place to which he has brought us, there is no return. It will be impossible to eliminate or even tame the chaos he has created. His years of chaos have already etched something tangible and frightening into reality, into the souls of the people who have lived through it. They are here. The chaos is here, with all its suctioning force. Internal hatreds are here. Mutual loathing is here; as is the cruel violence in our streets, on our highways, in our schools and hospitals. The people who call good evil and evil good are also already here.


The occupation also evidently won’t end in the foreseeable future; it is already stronger than all the forces now active in the political arena. What began and was honed with great efficiency there is now seeping into here. Anarchy’s gaping maw has bared its fangs at the most fragile democracy in the Middle East."

In comments:

“Coalition deals include discrimination bill, judicial override, immigration reform. New Netanyahu gov’t stresses exclusive Jewish rights to Land of Israel, backs annexation in principle; presents its guidelines, signed deals with partners before swearing-in Thurs.”. Thus the new government severs ties with western democracies, American Jews, and friendly Arab governments, the three most important supporters. The stupidity and the arrogance are breathtaking."

Link

It could have happened here. Still could.
 
Some wonder why conservativism is a bastion for anti-semitism while being so 'pro-Israel'. I don't see a contradiction. Whether openly or sub-consciously, many/most conservatives believe in ethno-states. Israel is the ethno-state of the Jew and conservatives believe Jews should move there.
 
Some wonder why conservativism is a bastion for anti-semitism while being so 'pro-Israel'. I don't see a contradiction. Whether openly or sub-consciously, many/most conservatives believe in ethno-states. Israel is the ethno-state of the Jew and conservatives believe Jews should move there.
Wrong, wrong and wrong again. In only three lines!

I am a conservative. I am not anti-semitic. I do not believe in 'ethno-states'. I do not believe Jews should move to Israel (I tried to correct your false assumptions in two lines and almost got there).
 
Some wonder why conservativism is a bastion for anti-semitism while being so 'pro-Israel'. I don't see a contradiction. Whether openly or sub-consciously, many/most conservatives believe in ethno-states. Israel is the ethno-state of the Jew and conservatives believe Jews should move there.
Sounds like you are the one with a problem with the Jews...
 
Just read that the new speaker of the Israeli legislature is gay.

So maybe it's premature to write off Israel as a liberal democracy???

Mr. N. has been prime minister many times.

And Israel still remains the only democracy in the Middle East.
 
No. Just like the US didn't stop being a Democracy when Trump was elected.
Regimes change. One is more left wing, one is more right wing, but democracy remains as long as they keep changing in accordance with the people's will.
 
Wrong, wrong and wrong again. In only three lines!

I am a conservative. I am not anti-semitic. I do not believe in 'ethno-states'. I do not believe Jews should move to Israel (I tried to correct your false assumptions in two lines and almost got there).

1. Do you deny most anti-semites are conservative?
2. Do you deny most promoters of ethno-states are conservative?
3. Do you deny those you think Jews should move to Israel, or at least should be 'loyal' to Israel are conservative?

 
1. Do you deny most anti-semites are conservative?
2. Do you deny most promoters of ethno-states are conservative?
3. Do you deny those you think Jews should move to Israel, or at least should be 'loyal' to Israel are conservative?

vative
In the UK the most notorious anti-semite is Jeremy Corbyn. the recent far left leader of the Labour Party. Even after his departure hatred of Jews is commom among the Left. I know of no anti-semitism in the Conservative Party; I was a member when I lived in England.

The only promotors of 'ethno states' that I can think of are Islamists.

I have never heard anyone, conservative or not, say tat all Jews should move to Israel.

Perhaps you are thinking of some cranks in the USA which seems to have rather more than its fair share. But the USA is not the world, whatever a good proportion of your fellow countrymen may imagine.
 
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This will remain a Netanyahu problem.
 
Just read that the new speaker of the Israeli legislature is gay.

So maybe it's premature to write off Israel as a liberal democracy???

Mr. N. has been prime minister many times.

And Israel still remains the only democracy in the Middle East.

Not sure Palestinians being brutally removed form their land and cast as second class citizens will find much solace in this.
 
In the UK the most notorious anti-semite is Jeremy Corbyn. the recent far left leader of the Labour Party. Even after his departure hatred of Jews is commom among the Left. I know of no anti-semitism in the Conservative Party; I was a member when I lived in England.

In America it is certainly the case
Contrary to the expectation of horseshoe theory, the data show the epicenter of antisemitic attitudes is young adults on the far right

I don't know how different it is in Europe, but I do know that a lot of what is construed as 'antisemitism' from the left is their criticism of the state of Israel or Zionism in general. I do not consider criticisms of Israel or Zionism to be antisemitic, but I would agree that there are some leftists who arguably cross that line.

What I do know for certain is the Far Right is rising in Europe and antisemitism is part of their identity.

The only promotors of 'ethno states' that I can think of are Islamists.


I have never heard anyone, conservative or not, say tat all Jews should move to Israel.

Antisemitic Zionism

The white nationalist movement, meanwhile, is deeply divided on the “Israel question,” which for them is shot through with antisemitism at the foundation. Most white nationalists insist that the Jewish diaspora is the driving force behind “white genocide,” the demographic “great replacement” of the white race, and that Jews have long engineered non-white immigration, Black freedom movements, gender and sexual liberation, cultural relativism, and a host of other “anti-white” phenomena, including neoconservative support for Israel, in order to accomplish this goal.

At the same time, some emulate Israel as an enviable example of the successful creation, by a dispossessed people, of its own ethnostate — one that continues to unapologetically “take its own side” in ethnic conflict. Prominent white nationalist Richard Spencer has referred to himself on Israeli television as “a white Zionist,” and has described his longed-for white ethnostate as “an Altneuland — an old, new country,” borrowing the phrase of Theodor Herzl, considered the founder of modern political Zionism. “I have great admiration for Israel’s nation-state law,” he said in 2018. “Jews are, once again, at the vanguard, rethinking politics and sovereignty for the future, showing a path forward for Europeans.” The alt-right writer Bronze Age Pervert, in a discussion of the European nationalist influences of the early Zionist project, noted sympathetically that Israel is “a state founded for the sake of racial survival…its spiritual foundation and reason for existence is national socialist through and through…Israeli nationalism and white nationalism are the same thing.”

Many white nationalists long for a world where each “race” occupies its own homogenous ethnostate. In that schema, Zionism represents the straightforward application of this “ethnopluralist” principle to the “Jewish race,” a solution which would conveniently empty the United States and Europe of its undesirable Jewish populations. “I do not oppose the existence of Israel,” explained white nationalist Greg Johnson with chilling precision. “I oppose the Jewish diaspora in the United States and other white societies. I would like to see the white peoples of the world break the power of the Jewish diaspora and send the Jews to Israel, where they will have to learn how to be a normal nation.”

 
Israel should never have been Irgun'd into existence. More prominent Jews than I - Einstein, Arendt - will ever be could see that.
No idea what being "Irgun'd into existence" means but Israel exists and the sooner you come to realize it the better.
 
No idea what being "Irgun'd into existence" means but Israel exists and the sooner you come to realize it the better.
You're located by the magen david but don't know what the Irgun was?

And quite a leap to the next thing. Whoa nelly.
 
You're located by the magen david but don't know what the Irgun was?

And quite a leap to the next thing. Whoa nelly.
I probably know more about everything in the world you can really think of than you do, so that's just reading comprehension problems on your side.
I said: No idea what being "Irgun'd into existence" means but Israel exists and the sooner you come to realize it the better.

Try reading it more slowly perhaps.
 
I probably know more about everything in the world you can really think of than you do, so that's just reading comprehension problems on your side.

Heh. Weird that you need to declare this. This is going to be fun.
I said: No idea what being "Irgun'd into existence" means but Israel exists and the sooner you come to realize it the better.
You are going to stick with 'who me, know the Irgun'? Excellent. Let's buckle in.

Try reading it more slowly perhaps.
You leapt to a conclusion. You want to take a moment to follow your own advice?
 
In America it is certainly the case
Contrary to the expectation of horseshoe theory, the data show the epicenter of antisemitic attitudes is young adults on the far right

I don't know how different it is in Europe, but I do know that a lot of what is construed as 'antisemitism' from the left is their criticism of the state of Israel or Zionism in general. I do not consider criticisms of Israel or Zionism to be antisemitic, but I would agree that there are some leftists who arguably cross that line.

What I do know for certain is the Far Right is rising in Europe and antisemitism is part of their identity.






Antisemitic Zionism

The white nationalist movement, meanwhile, is deeply divided on the “Israel question,” which for them is shot through with antisemitism at the foundation. Most white nationalists insist that the Jewish diaspora is the driving force behind “white genocide,” the demographic “great replacement” of the white race, and that Jews have long engineered non-white immigration, Black freedom movements, gender and sexual liberation, cultural relativism, and a host of other “anti-white” phenomena, including neoconservative support for Israel, in order to accomplish this goal.

At the same time, some emulate Israel as an enviable example of the successful creation, by a dispossessed people, of its own ethnostate — one that continues to unapologetically “take its own side” in ethnic conflict. Prominent white nationalist Richard Spencer has referred to himself on Israeli television as “a white Zionist,” and has described his longed-for white ethnostate as “an Altneuland — an old, new country,” borrowing the phrase of Theodor Herzl, considered the founder of modern political Zionism. “I have great admiration for Israel’s nation-state law,” he said in 2018. “Jews are, once again, at the vanguard, rethinking politics and sovereignty for the future, showing a path forward for Europeans.” The alt-right writer Bronze Age Pervert, in a discussion of the European nationalist influences of the early Zionist project, noted sympathetically that Israel is “a state founded for the sake of racial survival…its spiritual foundation and reason for existence is national socialist through and through…Israeli nationalism and white nationalism are the same thing.”

Many white nationalists long for a world where each “race” occupies its own homogenous ethnostate. In that schema, Zionism represents the straightforward application of this “ethnopluralist” principle to the “Jewish race,” a solution which would conveniently empty the United States and Europe of its undesirable Jewish populations. “I do not oppose the existence of Israel,” explained white nationalist Greg Johnson with chilling precision. “I oppose the Jewish diaspora in the United States and other white societies. I would like to see the white peoples of the world break the power of the Jewish diaspora and send the Jews to Israel, where they will have to learn how to be a normal nation.”

The supposed rise of the 'far right' in Europe is an illusion, resulting from perfectly ordinary, democratic parties being labelled 'far right' by their left wing opponents. In our recent Swedish election the party I voted for, the Swedish Democrats, is called Far Right for one reason only, suggesting that massive inward migration, over many decades, has had negative effects on Swedish society.
 
Heh. Weird that you need to declare this. This is going to be fun.

You are going to stick with 'who me, know the Irgun'? Excellent. Let's buckle in.


You leapt to a conclusion. You want to take a moment to follow your own advice?
It seems that my advice to read it more slowly was not enough.
Perhaps you need to ask someone for help in deciphering what it means when I say "not sure what being Irgun'd into existence means", and how it really doesn't mean that I'm not familiar with subjects like Etzel, Lehi, Ha'agana and the British Mandate era.
Clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed.
 
The supposed rise of the 'far right' in Europe is an illusion, resulting from perfectly ordinary, democratic parties being labelled 'far right' by their left wing opponents. In our recent Swedish election the party I voted for, the Swedish Democrats, is called Far Right for one reason only, suggesting that massive inward migration, over many decades, has had negative effects on Swedish society.
It wouldn't at all be because it was founded by actual ****ing Nazis and still takes a xenophobic, socially conservative list of positions?
 
It seems that my advice to read it more slowly was not enough.
Perhaps you need to ask someone for help in deciphering what it means when I say "not sure what being Irgun'd into existence means", and how it really doesn't mean that I'm not familiar with subjects like Etzel, Lehi, Ha'agana and the British Mandate era.
Clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Derp derp derp was a way you could go. Fascinating.
 
At the risk of nit picking, the Israel is not a "liberal democracy" but rather parliamentary republic that is arguably dominated by conservative nationalism. While they may lean far more to western governmental ideologies than the nations that surround them, at the end of the day all you have is a nation dominated by one religious ideology surrounded by nations that are all splinters of different religious ideology.

The point of all that is Netanyahu, and likeminded supporters, have the full intention of continuing their ambitions for land control and settlement.

What is happening in Israel is not all that far removed from what happens here when the political pendulum swings back and forth between a handful of ideologies in a manner where an extreme can capitalize on the disfunction for whatever reasons.

But at the end of the day the issue for Israel is the same. They are surrounded by their enemies and have few friends on the international stage.
 
Derp derp derp was a way you could go. Fascinating.
Yes.
Moving past your reading comprehension issues and childish reactions, do you have anything to add regarding what it means to be 'Irgun'd into existence' or why you think Israel shouldn't exist and how you're going to change that? Enlighten me while I still have the patience.
 
One of the scarier things for the fundie right is that in revelation, theres a returning of all the jews back to the holy land to trigger armageddon or the second coming prophesies. I dont put any stock into millenia old prophesies but the fundies sure do.
 
At the risk of nit picking, the Israel is not a "liberal democracy" but rather parliamentary republic that is arguably dominated by conservative nationalism. While they may lean far more to western governmental ideologies than the nations that surround them, at the end of the day all you have is a nation dominated by one religious ideology surrounded by nations that are all splinters of different religious ideology.

The point of all that is Netanyahu, and likeminded supporters, have the full intention of continuing their ambitions for land control and settlement.

What is happening in Israel is not all that far removed from what happens here when the political pendulum swings back and forth between a handful of ideologies in a manner where an extreme can capitalize on the disfunction for whatever reasons.

But at the end of the day the issue for Israel is the same. They are surrounded by their enemies and have few friends on the international stage.
They are friends with the biggest dog on the block


That's all they need
 
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