Is flag burning a protected free speech right? Apparently not in Ames, Iowa

[narrowroad]

The teens who killed the college student in NYC will be out way before this guy.
Just seems excessive.

no it doesn't see, it is..

damn lib judges defying the spirit of the law...

 

[Lisa]

I don't give a rat's flying back side what the hell you or anyone else says about it. He got a sentence that was 16 years too long

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

 

[Manc Skipper]

I don't give a rat's flying back side what the hell you or anyone else says about it. He got a sentence that was 16 years too long

If he can't do the time....

 

[Lisa]

no it doesn't see, it is..

damn lib judges defying the spirit of the law...

What spirit of the law did the judges defy?

 

[Keridan]

As established on other threads, the man committed no felonies at all this time - 3 misdemeanors with a MAXIMUM sentence of 3 years and 30 days combined together

Using the hate crimes law, they elevated one misdemeanor to felony class D (lowest level) and invoked the 3 strikes law - over 5 times the absolute maximum sentence because the flag had a rainbow

He didn't do the crime, they just outrageously increased the maximum time

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Adolpho Martinez was sentenced last Wednesday to 16 years in prison for burning the flag of a LGBTC group. Too bad it was not the American flag or he might have been rewarded by leftist commie democrats for his 'heroism.'

On the Burning of an LGBTQ Flag – Larry Sanger Blog

While I am not a big fan of hate crimes there are times when they are necessary. Especially when doing something to intimidate someone but not actually breaking an existing law. While friends and I gather around a fire ring and celebrate is not hurting anyone burning a cross to intimidate a black family is and should be a hate crime. You can argue that burning the cross is no different than the fire ring.

I think we need laws to stop intimidation especially when the people doing the intimidating may not actually be breaking a current law.

I have no respect for someone burning the American flag as a veteran. However I was willing to fight and die for their right to do so.

 

[Lisa]

As established on other threads, the man committed no felonies at all this time - 3 misdemeanors with a MAXIMUM sentence of 3 years and 30 days combined together

Using the hate crimes law, they elevated one misdemeanor to felony class D (lowest level) and invoked the 3 strikes law - over 5 times the absolute maximum sentence because the flag had a rainbow

He didn't do the crime, they just outrageously increased the maximum time

That rainbow has an overt and well-established meaning. It isn't just the color spectrum illustrated on a piece of cloth.

Burning the rainbow flag meets the requirment for a hate crime if he had made statements in the past that were threatening, just the same as buring a cross for a unreprentant bigot.
What is it about the LGBT flag or community that is so threatening to conservatives that they would feel the need to burn a flag?

 

[dirtpoorchris]

There may be a bit of that, but I would expect it's based a lot more on his disrespect for the law and for the judge.

Again: the guy openly, in court, to a judge, said "I'm proud I did this crime and I'm definitely going to do it again and you can't stop me."

If you said that about a DUI or a breaking-and-entering (and also had a criminal record already), I expect you'd get the book thrown at you very similarly.

Ya get the book thrown at you for petty theft and destruction of property! What they should have done was gotten restraining orders for harassment and THEN threw the book at him. If this guy would have did this to a MAGA hat no one would have gave a crap.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

Stupid people should face stiffer punishments, so they have a reason to learn. He was given the long sentence because of the 3-strikes rules, that conservatives support. It wasn't because he burned the LGBT flag. You can only burn the flag and enjoy protected free speech under Texas v. Johnson ruling if you own the flag in question. If you burn someone else's flag, it is arson.

16 years for destruction of property of an item less than 50 dollars and petty theft... I can under stand maybe 3 months for petty theft, 1 months of destruction of property of an item less than 50$, 6 months for non-violent arson, and 2 years for disrespecting the court during sentencing. But 16 years?!?!?!

 

[3leftsdoo]

Adolpho Martinez was sentenced last Wednesday to 16 years in prison for burning the flag of a LGBTC group. Too bad it was not the American flag or he might have been rewarded by leftist commie democrats for his 'heroism.'

On the Burning of an LGBTQ Flag – Larry Sanger Blog

I'm not aware of any "leftist commie Democrats," having never encountered a single one, but this does raise some interesting issues.

If burning - some - flags is protected speech, but burning ANY flag runs afoul of fire ordinances...?

 

[dirtpoorchris]

As established on other threads, the man committed no felonies at all this time - 3 misdemeanors with a MAXIMUM sentence of 3 years and 30 days combined together

Using the hate crimes law, they elevated one misdemeanor to felony class D (lowest level) and invoked the 3 strikes law - over 5 times the absolute maximum sentence because the flag had a rainbow

He didn't do the crime, they just outrageously increased the maximum time

At least SOMEONE here has sense and EQUAL justice even for the miscreants among us.

 

[Keridan]

That rainbow has an overt and well-established meaning. It isn't just the color spectrum illustrated on a piece of cloth.

Burning the rainbow flag meets the requirment for a hate crime if he had made statements in the past that were threatening, just the same as buring a cross for a unreprentant bigot.
What is it about the LGBT flag or community that is so threatening to conservatives that they would feel the need to burn a flag?

I get your point, but not a conservative and actually a huge supporter of lgbq

He got 13 more YEARS in prison because he hated a group instead of getting assigned court-ordered help for his disorder

Is it that much easier to return hate with hate and wish him over a decade of hell than wish him getting court-assigned help and making the world a better place?

Just for reference, I consider burning a cross just as bad, but I also know the gay community can handle an a-hole or two enough to let them get help instead of suffer for a decade and a half

 

[Robertinfremont]

Also arson, theft, making threats, but sure. Free speech.

When the ACLU gets wind of this he will be out of Jail.

You do not put into prison for 17 years a person who burned a hankey, a tinted cloth that looks to be a homosexual symbol, ... no, that is not justice, it is pure hate on the part of some crooked law.

 

[narrowroad]

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

I'll try not to look cross-eyed at the libs

 

[Robertinfremont]

While I am not a big fan of hate crimes there are times when they are necessary. Especially when doing something to intimidate someone but not actually breaking an existing law. While friends and I gather around a fire ring and celebrate is not hurting anyone burning a cross to intimidate a black family is and should be a hate crime. You can argue that burning the cross is no different than the fire ring.

I think we need laws to stop intimidation especially when the people doing the intimidating may not actually be breaking a current law.

I have no respect for someone burning the American flag as a veteran. However I was willing to fight and die for their right to do so.

I wonder how true is that you wanted to die for burning flags? I was in the Army and did not want to die so a person can burn flags.

 

[narrowroad]

When the ACLU gets wind of this he will be out of Jail.

You do not put into prison for 17 years a person who burned a hankey, a tinted cloth that looks to be a homosexual symbol, ... no, that is not justice, it is pure hate on the part of some crooked law.

I doubt the law said to give someone a sentence like that

more like some dumb judge... of which there are not a few in this country

 

[Robertinfremont]

That rainbow has an overt and well-established meaning. It isn't just the color spectrum illustrated on a piece of cloth.

Burning the rainbow flag meets the requirment for a hate crime if he had made statements in the past that were threatening, just the same as buring a cross for a unreprentant bigot.
What is it about the LGBT flag or community that is so threatening to conservatives that they would feel the need to burn a flag?

Still the Democrats play the game that they do not get it.

There are cruel and unusual punishments. This man may be a drunk and screams all sorts of poorly thought out things, but to jail him for 17 years is itself a crime.

 

[Irredentist]

16 years for destruction of property of an item less than 50 dollars and petty theft... I can under stand maybe 3 months for petty theft, 1 months of destruction of property of an item less than 50$, 6 months for non-violent arson, and 2 years for disrespecting the court during sentencing. But 16 years?!?!?!

He could always get out early for good behavior! Oh wait.

I'm not a fan of prison in general. But this guy is clearly dangerous, and has no intention of stopping. So I will spend exactly zero time worrying about him.

 

[Robertinfremont]

I doubt the law said to give someone a sentence like that

more like some dumb judge... of which there are not a few in this country

When i was a child in the 1940s, we call those kind of Judges, Hanging Judges.

 

[Irredentist]

I wonder how true is that you wanted to die for burning flags? I was in the Army and did not want to die so a person can burn flags.

I think it's more about the principle of political expression. Although it's questionable how much of what soldiers do actually protects that.

 

[Irredentist]

I doubt the law said to give someone a sentence like that

more like some dumb judge... of which there are not a few in this country

It's the three strikes rule as I understand, implemented during the 90's and it is indeed a law, although not a particularly just one in my opinion.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

I wonder how true is that you wanted to die for burning flags? I was in the Army and did not want to die so a person can burn flags.

Nobody wants to die. However as a young man I would take risks I would never attempt now. With that said I am still willing to fight for our rights and freedom as well as a lot of other people I know. That is why we have them and others do not. You have to be willing to fight even die for freedom and rights or someone will take them away. That is why we can support people fighting for their freedom but we cannot give it to them. Unless they are willing to fight for their freedom someone will only be take their freedom away again.

 

[Lisa]

When the ACLU gets wind of this he will be out of Jail.

You do not put into prison for 17 years a person who burned a hankey, a tinted cloth that looks to be a homosexual symbol, ... no, that is not justice, it is pure hate on the part of some crooked law.

The ACLU supports hate crime laws. if he would have stood on the sidewalk or street corner and made an argument they would have defended his free speech rights but burning the LGBT flag that you don't own is a hate crime. He might have gotten a lighter sentence if he bought the flag and burned it in his own property, if that would make him feel better.

What is it about the LGBT community that enrages conservtices to this extent? I don't understand this hatred.

 

[Lisa]

Still the Democrats play the game that they do not get it.

There are cruel and unusual punishments. This man may be a drunk and screams all sorts of poorly thought out things, but to jail him for 17 years is itself a crime.

He can appeal for a lower sentence. That is his right in the criminal justice system. He should have gotten help because he is an habitual offender who seems to have no remorse and shows no desire to change.

 

[Robertinfremont]

The ACLU supports hate crime laws. if he would have stood on the sidewalk or street corner and made an argument they would have defended his free speech rights but burning the LGBT flag that you don't own is a hate crime. He might have gotten a lighter sentence if he bought the flag and burned it in his own property, if that would make him feel better.

What is it about the LGBT community that enrages conservtices to this extent? I don't understand this hatred.

The community? Hate the community? I can only speak for me. I do not hate Democrats. They hate me.

What makes this a hate crime? This term of law is an invention of Democrats. There are really no such things as hate crimes. Crimes in general are hateful enough.