Is America really being "raped" on trade ?

[panic buyer]

I take trump pronouncements with a large pinch of salt. but i have not seen any evidence that the US is being unfairly treated.

Australia doesnt levy any tariffs on the US but has picked up 10%.
In the UK we are awash with US goods.

I rather think trump is confusing tariffs with trade imbalances. The US is the richest country in the world so of course it will run deficits with poorer countries.
It seems like trump wants the poor countries to subsidise Americas standard of living.

Its an immoral ezercise.

 

[NatMorton]

I take trump pronouncements with a large pinch of salt. but i have not seen any evidence that the US is being unfairly treated.

Australia doesnt levy any tariffs on the US but has picked up 10%.
In the UK we are awash with US goods.

I rather think trump is confusing tariffs with trade imbalances. The US is the richest country in the world so of course it will run deficits with poorer countries.
It seems like trump wants the poor countries to subsidise Americas standard of living.

Its an immoral ezercise.

Even if we are this is the wrong way to respond to it.

 

[L88]

There is some "tuning" that could be done in regards to trade. That is always the case. However, this wholesale attack on world trade channels the US has developed is going to be disastrous if it continues.

 

[BabaVoss]

We are not being “treated unfairly”.

 

[JoeB131]

I take trump pronouncements with a large pinch of salt. but i have not seen any evidence that the US is being unfairly treated.

Australia doesnt levy any tariffs on the US but has picked up 10%.
In the UK we are awash with US goods.

I rather think trump is confusing tariffs with trade imbalances. The US is the richest country in the world so of course it will run deficits with poorer countries.
It seems like trump wants the poor countries to subsidise Americas standard of living.

Its an immoral ezercise.

The problem is Trump confuses tariffs with trade imbalances.

Trade imbalances exist because other countries can make things cheaper and better than American factories can.

Period. Full stop.

 

[L88]

The problem is Trump confuses tariffs with trade imbalances.

Trade imbalances exist because other countries can make some things cheaper and better than American factories can.

Period. Full stop.

The reason for much of that is, that many asian countries do not have the same labor and environmental protections.

 

[Middleground]

We all know Trump is good at raping.

 

[Mycroft]

I take trump pronouncements with a large pinch of salt. but i have not seen any evidence that the US is being unfairly treated.

Australia doesnt levy any tariffs on the US but has picked up 10%.
In the UK we are awash with US goods.

I rather think trump is confusing tariffs with trade imbalances. The US is the richest country in the world so of course it will run deficits with poorer countries.
It seems like trump wants the poor countries to subsidise Americas standard of living.

Its an immoral ezercise.

The reason for the 10% baseline tariff that Trump has imposed on UK, Australia and others is to prevent countries with higher tariffs from selling their products to, say, Australia and then Australia turning around and selling the product to the US...as if they had produced it...with no tariff.

 

[Napoleon]

I take trump pronouncements with a large pinch of salt. but i have not seen any evidence that the US is being unfairly treated.

Australia doesnt levy any tariffs on the US but has picked up 10%.
In the UK we are awash with US goods.

I rather think trump is confusing tariffs with trade imbalances. The US is the richest country in the world so of course it will run deficits with poorer countries.
It seems like trump wants the poor countries to subsidise Americas standard of living.

Its an immoral ezercise.

The United States has become too dependent on foreign goods and that was made abundantly clear during the pandemic. There’s practically nothing to buy when imports slow or stop and that is an untenable position. The only thing that will potentially change that and revitalize domestic manufacturing is to level the playing field with tariffs.

 

[panic buyer]

The reason for the 10% baseline tariff that Trump has imposed on UK, Australia and others is to prevent countries with higher tariffs from selling their products to, say, Australia and then Australia turning around and selling the product to the US...as if they had produced it...with no tariff.

That isnt a good reason.

 

[panic buyer]

The United States has become too dependent on foreign goods and that was made abundantly clear during the pandemic. There’s practically nothing to buy when imports slow or stop and that is an untenable position. The only thing that will potentially change that and revitalize domestic manufacturing is to level the playing field with tariffs.

Thats a convoluted process with a lot of dependencies. Im not convinced that would work

 

[Mycroft]

That isnt a good reason.

It is from a US point of view.

 

[rickc]

People seem to forget how this all came about.

Offshoring was all the rage from the 80's on. American manufacturers moved their manufacturing to lands of cheap labor and no regulation.

Trump seems to think he can reverse this trend with his tarrifs. I believe that is a pipe dream. All the tarrifs will do is put another tax on the poor and middle/working class Americans.

He is destroying America's economy and our relationship with long term allies.

 

[KevinKohler]

I take trump pronouncements with a large pinch of salt. but i have not seen any evidence that the US is being unfairly treated.

Australia doesnt levy any tariffs on the US but has picked up 10%.
In the UK we are awash with US goods.

I rather think trump is confusing tariffs with trade imbalances. The US is the richest country in the world so of course it will run deficits with poorer countries.
It seems like trump wants the poor countries to subsidise Americas standard of living.

Its an immoral ezercise.

First, to the bolded...while that statement may be accurate, the everyday American doesn't feel it. I've been worked 12-14 hour days, 5-6 days per week, for the last 15 or so years now, just so I can own a decent home in a decent neighborhood, with a little set aside for savings and retirement. I'm not alone...far from it. I'm better off than many....many many Americans work those kinda hours, and still have to rent, or buy a dilapidated home in a crap neighborhood that'll never really increase in value. Basically, I'm saying that for a LOT of americans, life kinda sucks, and has sucked, for a pretty long time, and it seems to only be getting worse.

Now to the reasons, as far as I can see it...

Boils down to rich people not happy with how rich they are, and wanting to get richer. Allow me to explain...

We used to be a manufacturing giant, and every decent city and town in America had a factory, warehouse, or some sort of production facility, that largly employed a decent percent of the folks that lived there. Those jobs were either union, or were competing with a union for employees, which created upwards pressure on wages. So those jobs allowed a person to buy a modest home, support a family, save for retirement, etc. All while working 50 hours a week or so. But in the 70s, and then much more so in the 80s, it was determined that the unions were hurting US businesses, workers were lazy because the union protected them, the pascal's made that company less competitive, etc. So unions started getting busted. But that wasn't enough. The labor in other parts of the world was way cheaper, so companies started opening manufacturing in places like Mexico, Taiwan, then China. And the US consumer noticed prices falling, cheaper goods....but those lower prices didn't make up for the loss in wage earnings from decent jobs. No, instead, US companies became more profitable. Not just through increased sales, but through increased margins. The rich people at the top pocketed those wage difference savings on manufacturing costs, it was never all "passed onto the consumer". That story has continued till present day.

My opinion on this has changed after some deep thought this past week. I was all for tarrifs, specifically, tarrifing people who were imposing unfair trade practices against us (China), but....

IMO, even if tarrifs worked, and we executed an actual good plan with them, and managed to bring manufacturing back to this country...without a way to create upward pressure on wages, those jobs will be no different than retail jobs. Crap pay for ridiculously long hours, no work life ballance, just a different work setting.

American workers, in all sectors, are losing purchasing power, and I place the blame for this squarely on the 1%. Greed has put us where we are, and tarrifs aren't going to change that.

 

[BabaVoss]

People seem to forget how this all came about.

Offshoring was all the rage from the 80's on. American manufacturers moved their manufacturing to lands of cheap labor and no regulation.

Trump seems to think he can reverse this trend with his tarrifs. I believe that is a pipe dream. All the tarrifs will do is put another tax on the poor and middle/working class Americans.

He is destroying America's economy and our relationship with long term allies.

Exactly right. Trump wants to go backwards to some fantasy.
The reality is that we can’t make things as cheaply here as other countries can.
It’s a mistake to imagine that we could - or should even want to.
We can do much better.
We can’t do it with damaged and ill-prepared idiots like trump.

 

[panic buyer]

First, to the bolded...while that statement may be accurate, the everyday American doesn't feel it. I've been worked 12-14 hour days, 5-6 days per week, for the last 15 or so years now, just so I can own a decent home in a decent neighborhood, with a little set aside for savings and retirement. I'm not alone...far from it. I'm better off than many....many many Americans work those kinda hours, and still have to rent, or buy a dilapidated home in a crap neighborhood that'll never really increase in value. Basically, I'm saying that for a LOT of americans, life kinda sucks, and has sucked, for a pretty long time, and it seems to only be getting worse.

Now to the reasons, as far as I can see it...

Boils down to rich people not happy with how rich they are, and wanting to get richer. Allow me to explain...

We used to be a manufacturing giant, and every decent city and town in America had a factory, warehouse, or some sort of production facility, that largly employed a decent percent of the folks that lived there. Those jobs were either union, or were competing with a union for employees, which created upwards pressure on wages. So those jobs allowed a person to buy a modest home, support a family, save for retirement, etc. All while working 50 hours a week or so. But in the 70s, and then much more so in the 80s, it was determined that the unions were hurting US businesses, workers were lazy because the union protected them, the pascal's made that company less competitive, etc. So unions started getting busted. But that wasn't enough. The labor in other parts of the world was way cheaper, so companies started opening manufacturing in places like Mexico, Taiwan, then China. And the US consumer noticed prices falling, cheaper goods....but those lower prices didn't make up for the loss in wage earnings from decent jobs. No, instead, US companies became more profitable. Not just through increased sales, but through increased margins. The rich people at the top pocketed those wage difference savings on manufacturing costs, it was never all "passed onto the consumer". That story has continued till present day.

My opinion on this has changed after some deep thought this past week. I was all for tarrifs, specifically, tarrifing people who were imposing unfair trade practices against us (China), but....

IMO, even if tarrifs worked, and we executed an actual good plan with them, and managed to bring manufacturing back to this country...without a way to create upward pressure on wages, those jobs will be no different than retail jobs. Crap pay for ridiculously long hours, no work life ballance, just a different work setting.

American workers, in all sectors, are losing purchasing power, and I place the blame for this squarely on the 1%. Greed has put us where we are, and tarrifs aren't going to change that.

Your plight is similar to workers across the developed world. Still better than that of a Bangladeshi garment maker.

 

[uptower]

The reason for the 10% baseline tariff that Trump has imposed on UK, Australia and others is to prevent countries with higher tariffs from selling their products to, say, Australia and then Australia turning around and selling the product to the US...as if they had produced it...with no tariff.

Does this even happen though? I mean, really on any scale? Sounds to me like another desperate spinal contortion mostly made up to Trumsplain why they taxed a bunch of sub-Antarctic penguins.

After all nobody was talking about it till that blunder was exposed, then suddenly *poof* there’s an “answer”. A pretty far-fetched one at that.

The simpler explanation is they don’t know WTF they’re doing.

 

[Variant]

The problem is Trump confuses tariffs with trade imbalances.

Trade imbalances exist because other countries can make things cheaper and better than American factories can.

Period. Full stop.

Or say, they are poor countries that don't buy our high end goods.

 

[Variant]

The reason for much of that is, that many asian countries do not have the same labor and environmental protections.

Or enough money to buy a ford truck.

 

[Mycroft]

Does this even happen though? I mean, really on any scale?

It happened on a very large scale with Mexico and Canada under NAFTA.

 

[L88]

Or enough money to buy a ford truck.

Not long ago, we were the 3rd largest grain exporter in the world. Trump has damaged that greatly. At the end of last year's harvest, a lot corn stayed on the stock in the fields or stored on the ground. It is the same with soybeans. Trump's tariff war damaged our trade channels enough that China went to South American countries, which fed enough demand to greatly increase SA production. I don't know if we'll ever get that back.

 

[BabaVoss]

The simpler explanation is they don’t know WTF they’re doing.

^^^THIS^^^

 

[uptower]

It happened on a very large scale with Mexico and Canada under NAFTA.

This is just swallowing the Trumpist line wholesale: “Everyone’s ripping us off, we’re getting a bad deal, zero sum game, blah blah...”

These are feelings, not facts. It sounds good to the aggrieved voter who likes to blame outsiders for their economic woes, so he plays that tune and they lap it up.

The fact is America will always have trade imbalances with other countries because of a couple of reasons. As others have pointed out everyday items can be produced more cheaply elsewhere, and not everyone wants high end American brands in return. They have European, Korean and Japanese alternatives. Also, putting say, China aside and looking at somewhere like Australia or Canada, the size of the markets is vastly different. America has many more people to buy their goods than they have to buy American, so there’ll always be some sort of trade deficit.

Tariffs have a purpose but are usually getter thought out and a process of negotiation, not picking squabbles. Here trump is just slapping random hikes on everything because he thinks the bigger the number the grander it sounds. He doesn’t understand - or care - how this tax on consumers will hurt everyday Americans. He has a fantasy that American industry will pick up the slack.

 

[noonereal]

The United States has become too dependent on foreign goods and that was made abundantly clear during the pandemic. There’s practically nothing to buy when imports slow or stop and that is an untenable position. The only thing that will potentially change that and revitalize domestic manufacturing is to level the playing field with tariffs.

Good God.

There was nothing to buy anyplace the world as world production had been shut down.

Our biggest exports are services which are not tariffed. Agent orange did not take this into account.
We are by far the world leader in services.
It is 2025.

We don't need to revitalize America manufacturing in a 1950's model.

We need to manufacture 2025 goods as Joe targeted chips and the like.

The auto industry which gets an inordinate amount of attention has been moving to the sun belt
Guess why. So they would not have to pay a fair wage as they do up north.

We are really good at making bombs. We are really good at building airplanes.
We don't need to make socks and underwear.

 

[eohrnberger]

The United States has become too dependent on foreign goods and that was made abundantly clear during the pandemic.

Agreed.

There’s practically nothing to buy when imports slow or stop and that is an untenable position.

Yes, it's an untenable position, but I disagree with 'There’s practically nothing to buy when imports slow or stop'.

The only thing that will potentially change that and revitalize domestic manufacturing is to level the playing field with tariffs.

Also agree. Further, I think that tariffs shouldn't be confused with, nor include, trade imbalance. The two things are separate things.