More and more evidence is coming to light that indicates al Qaeda might just be a creation of the CIA and the current Administration. I personnally think they do exist, but this says differently...
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBVVs9hcmRY[/YOUTUBE]
What do you think?
I'm alone on what?Originally posted by Hatuey
You are alone on this one bill...
I'm alone on what?
I can determine two things from your post:
For the first one, your comment of me "...being alone", if I am to understand what you are infering, is that I am saying they [al Qaeda] are a myth. But since I included a disclaimer in my post to the effect that I think they "do" exist, your "alone" comment has no basis in reality.
- You don't know what your talking about.
- You don't care to know what your talking about?
For the second, why I believe you don't care, is the fact that you didn't even look at the video. Or at least not the whole thing. Because not enough time as gone by between when I posted it and when you responded that would allow you to watch the whole thing. So if you didn't watch it, then I can only assume you didn't care too. And if you didn't care too, why are you commenting on something [the case made in the video] you know nothing about.
One of the reason's I decided to post this was to show the knee-jerk reaction people have to what they think is a given. I don't mind people saying this particular assertion is bullshit, but at least look at the evidence before you draw your conclusions.
Peter L. Bergen, however, cites a document from 11 August 1988 establishing al Qaeda and referring to it as "the base." The document was the minutes of the first meeting establishing the organization: "This document outlines the discussion between bin Laden, referred to as 'the Sheikh,' and Abu Rida, or Mohamed Loay Bayazid, to discuss the formation of a 'new military group,' which would include 'al Qaeda (the base).'
I'm not saying their not. But keep in mind the fact that UBL doesn't speak english. So everything he says has to be "translated". Also, there is more information out there to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that, if anything, it is not "silly". But since you refuse to even be open to it, you don't really know.Originally posted by Hatuey
It's a silly attempt at starting a debate. Bin Laden explained the origin of the name Al-Qaeda. The name matters very little. The fact remains that Al-Qaeda is very real.
I'm not saying their not.
But keep in mind the fact that UBL doesn't speak english. So everything he says has to be "translated".
Also, there is more information out there to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that, if anything, it is not "silly". But since you refuse to even be open to it, you don't really know.
More and more evidence is coming to light that indicates al Qaeda might just be a creation of the CIA and the current Administration. I personnally think they do exist, but this says differently...
What do you think?
Did you hear the FBI ask about Williams?Originally posted by Apostle13
I know first hand they are real. Prior to and after 911 I worked at this university(homepage may be down due to tornadic activity on 12-25)... It is a highly credited flight school where it was rumored that some of the terrorists pilots had actually trained. Prior to 911 they ( some middle easterners ) would chant "Al-Qaeda!" to one another and even had a particular arm&fist gesture they would often make in so doing... On 9-12-01 the whole place swarmed with FBI pulling records and conducting random interviews. Some of which students were apprehended. All of whom never returned.
Who is Williams? What Nationality?
In New Jersey, the FBI on Wednesday searched the Marriott hotel at Newark Airport, where some or all of the four hijackers of United Airlines flight 93 were believed to have stayed on Monday night. The plane is the one that crashed in western Pennsylvania. It was that flight where either passengers or crew members downed the plane rather than become a cruise missile. But here was an interesting aside, reported once then never looked at again.
Curiously, given that all the suspected hijackers had Arab names, one guest at the hotel, who asked not to be named, said in an interview that during the search, the FBI agents asked each man they encountered, “Are you Williams?”
(By Christopher Drew: nytimes.com/2001/09/16/nyregion/16ARRE.html)
It does not seem significant to anyone that the Vero Beach, Florida Flight School and others interviewed as well, have no record of these individuals attending the schools; those which had attended the school and were Saudi citizens, have been absolved of involvement because their names were similar and/or they were alive and in Saudi Arabia. Even if it could be concluded that a couple (as in maybe two) of the hijackers had attended a U.S. Flight School (and this has not been conclusive) it would have likely been to polish-up skills they already possessed. Why do U.S. authorities refuse to seek out the obvious: these pilots were already trained, well-trained. By whom? Since we cannot prove conclusively that the men identified were not German, or English, but only looked this way or that, said they were this or that, any other nation-state could as easily be part of this. And this is not just my suspicion. It was reported once, only once and never repeated again:
It was uncertain whether the 19 names of the hijackers put out by officials today were the true names of the hijackers. The names were apparently those used by the men when they purchased airline tickets, but it was unclear whether they might have used aliases, stolen identities or forged documents.
(By Neil A. Lewis: nytimes.com/2001/09/15/national/15INQU.html)
Which of course becomes the only explanation as to why the perpetrators would have openly (and stupidly) purchased tickets on the Internet using their accrued Mileage or with credit cards. It was not “their” credit cards, nor their Mileage, as it was not really them in whose names they were purchased. This level of tactical skill and planning falls comfortably into nation-state military intelligence levels but hardly bin Laden’s. These individuals’ Passports were, by and large, not out-of-status with immigration authorities and only a few were even said to have been. In other words, these individuals were “clean” and could travel freely. Precisely the case if they were military personnel traveling under false identities (washed) and under “orders” in behalf of their nation-state authorities. Under orders; by whom then becomes the real question. It is the blind assumption that these were all followers of bin Laden, with laser-like focus and determination, that the FBI and White House refuse to tell the American people to prepare for a protracted war, not with terrorists, but with trained professional military and intelligence personnel from one or more nation’s military and Air Force.
Another fact surfaced that was reported twice then never broached again. A Senior White House aide told New York Times reporter and later reported in William Safire’s column, that Secret Service was contacted and told that Air Force One had been targeted next.
According to the high official, American code words were used showing a knowledge of procedures that made the threat credible....(I have a second, on-the-record source about that: Karl Rove, the president’s senior advisor, tells me: “When the president said ‘I don’t want some tinhorn terrorists keeping me out of Washington,’ the Secret Service informed him that the threat contained language that was evidence that the terrorists had knowledge of his procedures and whereabouts. In light of the specific and credible threat, it was decided to get airborne with a fighter escort.”).
(www.nytimes.com/2001/09/13/opinion/13SAFI.html)
No responsible thinking person believes bin Laden, nor any other terrorists, could have come by such tightly held security data. The military intelligence (spy agencies) of any nation-state, on the other hand, performs precisely such operations. Here is a report from CNN.com. that explained why this “New war (is) to be fought with unprecedented secrecy...the Bush administration has decided to clamp down on even routine information because it could prove of some use to potential terrorists.” The report spells this out in the Pentagon’s own words and one doubts the sincerity of Bush‘s claims. But if he were worried about nation state intelligence capabilities, which we believe is the case, then the clamp down makes sense.
No...Did you hear the FBI ask about Williams?
Bush used 9/11 as an opportunity, rather than a tragedy. But I don't think he was complicit in the event.Originally posted by Apostle13
No...
But here is my own personal observation; All of the conspirists theory buy-ins are either foreigners, anti-American, anti-Bush, Muslim, liberals or some combination thereof.
Do they hate GW so much that they choose to believe it..?
Or do they believe it so much that they hate GW..?
Either case... Its an absurdity.
When you go to the website provided in your post, one of the assertions in the article is...Originally posted by Cherokee:
From the same poster (Halifaxion) at You Tube, "Concentration Camps For American Citizens and Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime: 9/11 was an inside job"........... any ways
Timeline from Frontline "John O'Neill, The man who knew."
Bin Laden and Al Qaeda prior to 9/11
frontline: the man who knew: timeline - al qaeda's global context | PBS
Watch the entire 83 minute program here..
frontline: the man who knew: watch online | PBS
...with the highlighted portion being the link to this website...Bin Laden Organizes Attacks on U.N. Forces in Somalia
According to a document released by the British government after the Sept. 11 attacks, between 1992 and 1993, Mohammed Atef, an Egyptian aide to bin Laden, travels frequently to Somalia to organize violent attacks on U.S. and U.N. troops stationed there. After each trip he reports back to bin Laden in Khartoum.
...that makes no reference to Mohammed Atef, UBL or Somolia.
...it is not explained how they know UBL and other Islamic radicals are "inspired".Soviet Forces Withdraw from Afghanistan
The Soviets' humiliating defeat by mujahedeen forces in their 10-year long war inspires Osama bin Laden and other Islamic radicals to believe their victory in Afghanistan can be replicated around the world. At the end of the war, many of the "Afghan Arabs," as the radicals were called, returned home. Osama bin Laden returns to Saudi Arabia.
...they "believe" it is the first. Can they not "prove" it is the first?Al Qaeda's First Attack
In an apparent plot to kill U.S. servicemen headed to Somalia, a bomb explodes at a hotel in Aden, Yemen and kills two Austrian tourists. Two Yemeni Muslims -- who had been trained in Afghanistan -- are injured and later arrested. Intelligence officials believe this is Al Qaeda's first attack.
The Associated Press later reports that two of the Yemenis detained for the 2000 attack on the USS Cole were involved both in this 1992 Aden bombing, and a series of other attacks in 1993.
...refers you to the same website above. My guess is the particular page is there somewhere, but I'm too lazy to go look for it. So if you want me to buy your bullshit, your going to have to hold my hand and give me a cookie!Final Training of Somali Forces
According to a document published by the British government, Muhammad Atef, Saif al Adel and other members of Al Qaeda return to Somalia to train Somali forces to attack U.N. troops.
When you go to the website provided in your post, one of the assertions in the article is...
...with the highlighted portion being the link to this website......that makes no reference to Mohammed Atef, UBL or Somolia.
And on this assertion by the Frontline website......it is not explained how they know UBL and other Islamic radicals are "inspired".
And in this one......they "believe" it is the first. Can they not "prove" it is the first?
Now in this assertion from the Frontline website...
...refers you to the same website above. My guess is the particular page is there somewhere, but I'm too lazy to go look for it. So if you want me to buy your bullshit, your going to have to hold my hand and give me a cookie!
There is one thing I do know, and that is I cannot trust anything my government says at face value. Everything this Administration claims should be investigated and corroborated from impartial and unconnected sources.The Evidence: The Penttbomb Investigation
Nobody serious about what happened believes that the FBI has already caught the bad-guys. Nor that they know with any certainty who the pilots and others were by name. No reasonable thinking person believes this. No adult law enforcement personnel believe this. No one in the Intelligence community, active or retired. This is the pap the President must feed the average unthinking herd. The enemy can only be crazed fanatical Islamic Jihad types. Only religious fanatics would commit suicide for a cause. Nobody sane would want to kill Americans. And that is precisely what has not happened. Soldiers and military pilots will do precisely the same thing if ordered and they believe their nation is at risk. If some, any, terrorist group planned and executed this act of war, they would have taken full credit. It is only in taking the credit that their cause becomes understood; even if only understood to exist as their cause. That no group has claimed credit is a tell. They have not claimed it because they did not do it. Just like Oklahoma City.
The government/media nexus immediately said it was Arab terrorists; I was a lone voice for three days (KABC News Radio) saying it was an act by an American. I knew this for many reasons and one of them was that nobody claimed credit, Why? because no Arab group did it. Here is the main point to this part of the analysis: Even if they were from an Arab state this does not ipso facto say they were terrorists. Military, Intelligence, covert operations simply cannot be ruled out.
Regarding the FBI’s rather bold and sudden claim that they know, absolutely know, who the 19 hijackers were, by name, with addresses, photographs (we will never know if the face on the passport or driver’s licenses match the toast in the rubble. But the White House and FBI do not care that this evidence is more wishful thinking than conclusive evidence. We must be seen by Americans to be on top of all this. We cannot even be sure the names are the names of the pilots. The media obediently repeats the names by rote, never questioning it: Satam al-Suqami (who allegedly sat in 10B) and Waleed al-Shehri and Wail al-Shrhri (who allegedly sat in 2B and 2A): while they may have set up the same Hollywood post-office box as their address, are they the persons who they said they were? If I had been one of the pilots I would have had all the same I.D.’s, mail drops and I would have left the same idiotic paper trail for the FBI to diligently “discover” but the name would have been Warren Beatty!
I am not, obviously saying that these men did not stay where the FBI says they stayed, or bought a Burger on the 10th of September and a Latte at Squirrelly Bob’s Dinner; I am saying, does anyone believe these highly skilled, trained professionals used their real names? That their own nation’s military and intelligence agencies could not have given them full credentials and identification? In other words “they were washed clean.” That they were intelligent enough the carry a Master’s Degree in civil engineering and fly the world’s most sophisticated airplanes but are so stupid as to leave their real names behind? My name would have been at the very least Elvis Presley and complained openly that my mother really liked the super star and thus gave me the name...Americans would have giggled and believed that, along with the FBI, as well. When the FBI “discovered” (here we go again) that several of the alleged suspects (dead now, so we shall never know) spoke German, witnesses confirmed they spoke German, but the FBI said they were from the Middle East,...why? Because the witness was told they were from the Middle East (Saudi Arabia) by the German speaking gentlemen; and like the diligent FBI they believed this! They spoke German because maybe, just maybe, they were German!
It was conceded early on that the FBI did not know the nationalities of the 19 men that allegedly were the perpetrators. And nationalities are very important. Not because the FBI and media have assumed all were Arab state’s citizens; several spoke perfect English and others German, others did not speak at all. And this is important. English could mean South African, British, Australian, American or whatever. Nobody will dare suggest that they spoke these languages because that was their country of origin, not the Arab States; that their allegiance might be to a completely different nation-state is not even a consideration, that is just too scary. Indeed, those people that look like Arabs amounts to approximately two thirds of the world’s peoples. I have a client which closely resembles a Palestinian who is of Jewish and Nicaraguan parents: he is now a New Yorker, born in San Francisco. With an Arabic name he could easily be identified as Arab.
On War: September 11, 2001
By Craig B Hulet
www.kcandassonciates.com
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