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Is a wealth tax a good idea?

Really? In 1905 5 people controlled half the country's wealth.

Strictly from memory, didn't Reagan agree to a tax hike in exchange for spending reductions to be named later? Which never happened.

Again from memory, I think when Reagan took office, the top rate was 92%/+/-. I believe that got cut by roughly half.

Actually the top rate was 75% which Reagan cut in half. You also forgot that according to VP Cheney "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter". He started the "starve the beast" campaign that directly led to our Trillion $ deficits under Trump and our massive national debt. You are right about 1915 and if you were honest you would see that the income maldistribution of the 1920's led to the Great Depression and it will do it again. Why do you think our ancestors levied a 90%+ tax on ultra high incomes? It was so we never would go thru a Great Depression again.
 
Well, if you would rather say it was put to work by JFK agreeing to Congress balancing the tax cuts with budget cuts, fine. Nonetheless, it would otherwise never have been "put" to work. If it were, then any positive results therefrom would be discounted by any deficits.

Deficits are a separate issue from the issues I am discussing, pretty much.
 
And yet, it's a fact that the bottom half pays nothing while the top 10% pays over half of all taxes paid.

As I've often said, you give me all your income, and I'll pay all your taxes. Taking the income and paying taxes isn't generous.

There is no guarantee of equal outcome that I can find anywhere in the Constitution. The guarantee is equal opportunity. What you do with that opportunity is up to you. It's simple enough to get up tomorrow morning, create an internet site, and you too can be the next Zuckerberg.

That's Libertarian gibberish. What we have is far, far from 'equal opportunity' - that's what plutocracy does, and we have plutocracy. There is a lot less prosperity and opportunity for everyone else because a few are given too much. Not all good policy goals need to be found in the constitution, either. Nowhere in the constitution does it say, "don't pave over our best nature areas, and protect endangered species." Or help people get healthcare.
 
As I've often said, you give me all your income, and I'll pay all your taxes. Taking the income and paying taxes isn't generous.



That's Libertarian gibberish. What we have is far, far from 'equal opportunity' - that's what plutocracy does, and we have plutocracy. There is a lot less prosperity and opportunity for everyone else because a few are given too much. Not all good policy goals need to be found in the constitution, either. Nowhere in the constitution does it say, "don't pave over our best nature areas, and protect endangered species." Or help people get healthcare.

Fact is, the 50% that pays nothing are the ones that complain the 10% that pays half is not paying their fair share.

Your logic presumes that wealth is a zero sum game. That's false. The difference between creation of wealth and redistribution pf wealth thinking.

I'm going to ignore the bolded. Nothing to do with the issue at hand.

I disagree with the lack of opportunity. Two routes forward. Doing something better and doing something different. Both are breachable. I did something better. I know others who did something different. Watch Shark Tank. It's semi phony, but the participants are mostly doing something different. The phony part is you don't spend 10 minutes in a bear suit and walk out with a million dollars. The real part is if you have a good idea someone will be interested. It's up to you how you approach it.
 
Fact is, the 50% that pays nothing are the ones that complain the 10% that pays half is not paying their fair share.

As I said, give me your income, and you will pay no taxes - but no complaining from you.

Your logic presumes that wealth is a zero sum game. That's false. The difference between creation of wealth and redistribution pf wealth thinking.

Wealth is partly a zero sum game. There is a difference between people have more equality and huge inequality. You don't understand that.

I disagree with the lack of opportunity. Two routes forward. Doing something better and doing something different. Both are breachable. I did something better. I know others who did something different. Watch Shark Tank.

Showing you know nothing about the issue.

You offer nothing but anecdotes, because you don't understand the issue.

I can't help you with the huge missing area you have here. The bits you have make sense to you, and you don't understand the bigger issues.
 
The fact that 50% cannot afford to pay income tax is a direct result of the redistribution of wealth to the top.
Essentially, you are saying that 50% of the population have become a liability upon the remaining 50%.
To pay an income tax, you first have to do something which produces an income.
Once income is produced, government begins to tax it.
While government redistributes money primarily acquired from those who pay the most taxes, it is the spending of the unearned income which produces what you are calling redistribution to the top.

The CEO's used to share the increased profits with their workers because confiscatory tax rates for high incomes made taking them all for themselves impossible. That all changed when Reagan slashed the top rates in half and told the country that greed was good.
That never occurred. When the top marginal tax rate was much higher, taxes were simply avoided by investing in debt.
The confiscatory tax rates DID indeed keep many middle class workers from accumulating more wealth, as I quickly learned while Carter was President and I worked over 6500 hours one year earning the highest pre-tax income of my working life, only to find there was no way to avoid giving most of it to government, in Federal and State income tax.

I've attempted to present a way to more permanently change the way Federal taxes acquire the revenue it needs/wants without a progressive tax rate, and primarily upon the wealthiest without taxing income but instead taxing only the accumulation of wealth. If you really want to make changes that would result in FIXING a problem try discussing the issue not people and politicians.
 
That's the point that gets missed. If the bottom 50% gets a 100% reduction they will still pay zero, and that's not including the earned income tax credit for many who earn no income. You can only get a reduction if you have something to reduce.

How is an "earned income tax credit" actually earned?
 
Essentially, you are saying that 50% of the population have become a liability upon the remaining 50%.
To pay an income tax, you first have to do something which produces an income.
Once income is produced, government begins to tax it.
While government redistributes money primarily acquired from those who pay the most taxes, it is the spending of the unearned income which produces what you are calling redistribution to the top.


That never occurred. When the top marginal tax rate was much higher, taxes were simply avoided by investing in debt.
The confiscatory tax rates DID indeed keep many middle class workers from accumulating more wealth, as I quickly learned while Carter was President and I worked over 6500 hours one year earning the highest pre-tax income of my working life, only to find there was no way to avoid giving most of it to government, in Federal and State income tax.

I've attempted to present a way to more permanently change the way Federal taxes acquire the revenue it needs/wants without a progressive tax rate, and primarily upon the wealthiest without taxing income but instead taxing only the accumulation of wealth. If you really want to make changes that would result in FIXING a problem try discussing the issue not people and politicians.

LOL Why didn't you "invest in debt" if that was what the rich did?
No there is no "liability" in not making enough income to pay income tax. Tax rates are based on what people can afford to pay obviously and since that means they spend all they earn in the economy taxing those families would adversely affect GDP. Every dime of tax would come straight out of spending which is 75% of GDP. Those familes are doing their part in the economy much more than the top 1% who are sucking most of their income out of the system and socking it away for themselves. It is unsustainable.
Executive salaries were 20-25 times their average worker when top rates were 90% to day they are 250 to 300 what a worker makes. Don't give me poppycock like "investing in debt. Instead of exorbitant salaries CEO's invested in their business and their workers instead of socking it all away like they do now. The data is clear, we are headed for another great depression if we cannot stop this incessant funneling of money to the top. You must know that too or you would not be looking for a solution.
 
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LOL Why didn't you "invest in debt" if that was what the rich did?
No there is no "liability" in not making enough income to pay income tax. Tax rates are based on what people can afford to pay obviously and since that means they spend all they earn in the economy taxing those families would adversely affect GDP. Every dime of tax would come straight out of spending which is 75% of GDP. Those familes are doing their part in the economy much more than the top 1% who are sucking most of their income out of the system and socking it away for themselves. It is unsustainable.
Executive salaries were 20-25 times their average worker when top rates were 90% to day they are 250 to 300 what a worker makes. Don't give me poppycock like "investing in debt. Instead of exorbitant salaries CEO's invested in their business and their workers instead of socking it all away like they do now. The data is clear, we are headed for another great depression if we cannot stop this incessant funneling of money to the top. You must know that too or you would not be looking for a solution.

I would have if I could have.
The liability I was referring to was clearly explained as falling upon the remaining 50%.
Perhaps you should read my posts more carefully, and try to understand what I'm saying.
It is the money you refer to as being "socked away" that I would apply a Federal tax on.
We're NOT, IMO, heading for another "great depression", simply continuing along a path of recessions when inflation rises too rapidly.
All I am looking to solve is how our Federal government acquires the revenue to fund the multitude of spending programs without having a negative impact upon those trying to acquire adequate wealth to sustain their lives both before and after retirement, and lessen the effect of inflation upon future generations.
 
Deficits are a separate issue from the issues I am discussing, pretty much.



Deficits add to debt which increases debt payments that reduce our ability to provide government services. That makes it an unavoidable issue whether you want to discuss it or not.
 
Deficits add to debt which increases debt payments that reduce our ability to provide government services. That makes it an unavoidable issue whether you want to discuss it or not.

I didn't say they're not 'an' issue. Lots of things 'are' issues, that aren't the things I'm discussing. You can talk about drunk driving as 'an' issue, but that doesn't make it relevant to the issues I was discussing.
 
Essentially, you are saying that 50% of the population have become a liability upon the remaining 50%.

The problem is your view of the issue - completely lacking in any sense of the collective welfare of the society.

You know, you can go back to the idea when our country was founded, when 90% of the country was agrarian (farming). People could just live on the land and grow food and be ok. Then the cities with the other 10% had a lot of small businesses. There were no 'mega corporations' with more revenue than most countries.

There are a lot of benefits to the changes in the economy since then - but those changes also make it a lot more expensive for people to live, a lot more dependent on those 'big corporations' that have developed, and the massive fortunes the changes produce go into very few hands, where they have been used to take the political power away from the people and put it into the hands of those few.

And suddenly, 'the people' become a 'burden' on the few who benefit from these changes, because we have not ensured that the benefits of the new economy are shared. We don't say to the big corporations, 'good, create that wealth, and as JFK said a rising tide will lift all boats - no, instead, create that wealth with changes that make it harder for many to live, and you keep almost all of it, and we'll call the people a burden.'

These changes create very real problems, where the people DO become 'burdens' in many cases - and the logical result is to create pressure to simply kill off the 'unneeded burdens'. Is that the society we want, that we intended, to have the American people displaced by powerful new economic organizations and harmed by them, left powerless and 'burdens'?

We're so good at pointing out the flaws of communism, and so blind to the flaws of our own system.

If see our society as one in which every person has value, and we want all to do well, it's not that hard - we can have things like guaranteed employment when the private system falls short, or public services that are very affordable with all this new wealth, to float all the boats, IF we give a crap about the people.

Or, we can adopt your views, that they are 'burdens', and criminalize their poverty and leave them killed, jailed, or struggling against needs for housing, food, medicine, and say, 'who cares', those citizens don't matter, only the ones who are needed by the 'new economy' are of value and interest. These are real choices we need to make. Currently, we're letting the 'people don't matter' side win more.

'Democracy' is giving people that value artificially.

That's what a 'vote' is. Saying, you aren't just a powerless person where only money counts; you have the same one vote to ensure everyone is cared for as the rich person. Dollars are far from equal, but votes are one per person.

And that was an intentional choice. Human history was filled with small numbers of 'elites' who took all the wealth for themselves, and made the public serve them - with taxes, as soldiers in wars for profit, in many ways.

The American experiment was to say, let's try making the people the rulers instead of a small number of elite.

That's the heart of the American system - the opposite of what the pressures of the 'new economy' are to do, creating the new economic royals, and making many people a 'burden'.

Making it worse, while historically, people could at least farm or similar, today's technology makes them unneeded 'burdens' like never before. We need less and less labor, less and less farming outside of corporate, mechanized farms, but we have done little to adjust our politics to care about the people affected. And people like you would discard them as burdens, instead of making our economy serve the people, instead of people serving the economy.
 
Irrelevant; not going to happen.
 
The problem is your view of the issue - completely lacking in any sense of the collective welfare of the society.

You know, you can go back to the idea when our country was founded, when 90% of the country was agrarian (farming). People could just live on the land and grow food and be ok. Then the cities with the other 10% had a lot of small businesses. There were no 'mega corporations' with more revenue than most countries.

There are a lot of benefits to the changes in the economy since then - but those changes also make it a lot more expensive for people to live, a lot more dependent on those 'big corporations' that have developed, and the massive fortunes the changes produce go into very few hands, where they have been used to take the political power away from the people and put it into the hands of those few.

And suddenly, 'the people' become a 'burden' on the few who benefit from these changes, because we have not ensured that the benefits of the new economy are shared. We don't say to the big corporations, 'good, create that wealth, and as JFK said a rising tide will lift all boats - no, instead, create that wealth with changes that make it harder for many to live, and you keep almost all of it, and we'll call the people a burden.'

These changes create very real problems, where the people DO become 'burdens' in many cases - and the logical result is to create pressure to simply kill off the 'unneeded burdens'. Is that the society we want, that we intended, to have the American people displaced by powerful new economic organizations and harmed by them, left powerless and 'burdens'?

We're so good at pointing out the flaws of communism, and so blind to the flaws of our own system.

If see our society as one in which every person has value, and we want all to do well, it's not that hard - we can have things like guaranteed employment when the private system falls short, or public services that are very affordable with all this new wealth, to float all the boats, IF we give a crap about the people.

Or, we can adopt your views, that they are 'burdens', and criminalize their poverty and leave them killed, jailed, or struggling against needs for housing, food, medicine, and say, 'who cares', those citizens don't matter, only the ones who are needed by the 'new economy' are of value and interest. These are real choices we need to make. Currently, we're letting the 'people don't matter' side win more.

'Democracy' is giving people that value artificially.

That's what a 'vote' is. Saying, you aren't just a powerless person where only money counts; you have the same one vote to ensure everyone is cared for as the rich person. Dollars are far from equal, but votes are one per person.

And that was an intentional choice. Human history was filled with small numbers of 'elites' who took all the wealth for themselves, and made the public serve them - with taxes, as soldiers in wars for profit, in many ways.

The American experiment was to say, let's try making the people the rulers instead of a small number of elite.

That's the heart of the American system - the opposite of what the pressures of the 'new economy' are to do, creating the new economic royals, and making many people a 'burden'.

Making it worse, while historically, people could at least farm or similar, today's technology makes them unneeded 'burdens' like never before. We need less and less labor, less and less farming outside of corporate, mechanized farms, but we have done little to adjust our politics to care about the people affected. And people like you would discard them as burdens, instead of making our economy serve the people, instead of people serving the economy.

And all I was trying to do is eliminate taxing all but those who accumulate wealth.
 
And all I was trying to do is eliminate taxing all but those who accumulate wealth.

You said half the country is a "liability", in response to iguanaman correctly pointing out that record concentration of wealth has led to an increase of taxation toward the top (in dollars - the rate for the wealthy has continually plummeted for decades). That's all you got out of my post?
 
You said half the country is a "liability", in response to iguanaman correctly pointing out that record concentration of wealth has led to an increase of taxation toward the top (in dollars - the rate for the wealthy has continually plummeted for decades). That's all you got out of my post?

Yes, and I found nothing in your post worth pursuing if there is an intent to solve a problem by any rational or reasoned means.
 
I would have if I could have.
The liability I was referring to was clearly explained as falling upon the remaining 50%.
Perhaps you should read my posts more carefully, and try to understand what I'm saying.
It is the money you refer to as being "socked away" that I would apply a Federal tax on.
We're NOT, IMO, heading for another "great depression", simply continuing along a path of recessions when inflation rises too rapidly.
All I am looking to solve is how our Federal government acquires the revenue to fund the multitude of spending programs without having a negative impact upon those trying to acquire adequate wealth to sustain their lives both before and after retirement, and lessen the effect of inflation upon future generations.

Don't get me wrong a wealth tax maybe needed also but the rates for these multimillion $ incomes need to go up too. These low rates drive greed far too much and yes I do think greed is a human emotion.
 
Don't get me wrong a wealth tax maybe needed also but the rates for these multimillion $ incomes need to go up too. These low rates drive greed far too much and yes I do think greed is a human emotion.
If individual income needs to be taxed, it should only be done at the State and/or local level of government.
IMO, the 16th and 17th amendments should never have been passed, and the 16th amendment was easily passed ONLY because it applied to only about 3% of the population, about 3,000,000 persons at the time and the average income at the time was about $750 a year, and a tax of 1% was applied to income greater than $3,000 which would be around $78,000 in current dollars witha top marginal rate of 7%.
 
I think we normal people don't understand tax laws and why there is thousands of pages of tax codes.
Our system of taxation isn't designed to tax incomes and profits to provide the government with a source of income, that's the lie told to the plebs. Our tax system is designed to control the economy, the consumer spending habits, the entrepreneur, the start up, the small family business, the conglomerates, and the big businesses. The design is to keep the whole system turning optimally (ideally), and to keep the rich and big business into funneling there money into areas that the governments thinks is the most beneficial to have money into.
 
I think we normal people don't understand tax laws and why there is thousands of pages of tax codes.
Our system of taxation isn't designed to tax incomes and profits to provide the government with a source of income, that's the lie told to the plebs. Our tax system is designed to control the economy, the consumer spending habits, the entrepreneur, the start up, the small family business, the conglomerates, and the big businesses. The design is to keep the whole system turning optimally (ideally), and to keep the rich and big business into funneling there money into areas that the governments thinks is the most beneficial to have money into.

Nice theory, but in practice the tax code has largely been written by the rich and big corporations for decades now.
 

No, you've offered no change other than to raise taxes on the wealthiest which has proven not to be a solution, but has only increased the cost of living for everyone.
 
Nice theory, but in practice the tax code has largely been written by the rich and big corporations for decades now.

Not a decade but for the last 80 years
 
No, you've offered no change other than to raise taxes on the wealthiest which has proven not to be a solution, but has only increased the cost of living for everyone.

Bull.
 
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