Iran says U.S. report a "declaration of surrender"

[bhkad]

We do air strikes, then we had better be committed to a draft and whatever else it takes to invade Iran, because the Straits of Hormuz will be completely shut down, and our carrier fleet in the Gulf will be sunk. Russia has supplied Iran with state of the art radar-evading cruise missles, and there is no doubt that Iran would use every one of them, in addition to their own vast arsenal of missiles, if they are attacked. Iran is not Iraq. If we attack them, then we had better be prepared to commit to a REAL war.

I agree with you and at that point I don't think the same conditions would exist as have up until now.

The reason there has been no draft is because that would have exponentially increased the size of the anti-war protests and we'd have had a repeat of Vietnam, where it was lack of support at home which doomed the effort. The Administration knew this and that is why they didn't enact a Selective Service lottery to fight in Iraq. The war would SURELY have been abandoned by now and instead of peace breaking out all around the country the war would still be escalating and the push to expand Islamism into Iraq would be a done deal.

If we go to war with Iran it will be a much different matter. Our people will KNOW we are in a war. Iran will no longer need to wage a clandestine war against us, nor we, them.

And all the loyal Americans who proudly proclaimed they would gladly fight for their country in a real war will be needed to put their money where their mouth is.

 

[new coup for you]

I'm beginning to think, given the US fondess for electing complete lunatics, a nuclear Iran would actually be favorable. It would prevent any future war, and force the US to reconsider Middle-East bravado.

 

[mikhail]

I'm beginning to think, given the US fondess for electing complete lunatics, a nuclear Iran would actually be favorable. It would prevent any future war, and force the US to reconsider Middle-East bravado.

I dont see how you can possibly see religious fundamentalists with nuclear weopons is a good thing.What do you mean by The US electing lunatics you mean at home or abroad?

 

[new coup for you]

The US doesn't elect people abroad...

I fail to see how Iran is any crazier then the Soviet Union, with whom we tolerated a nuclear stalemate for 60 years.

 

[bhkad]

I'm beginning to think, given the US fondess for electing complete lunatics, a nuclear Iran would actually be favorable. It would prevent any future war, and force the US to reconsider Middle-East bravado.

You actually think your life and lifestyle wouldn't be seriously impacted if such a thing happened? :shock:

Boy, you need to get educated. But the 'wind' may be your best teacher.

:mrgreen:

 

[new coup for you]

Yes, American life screeched to a halt because of the sixty years of nuclear showdown that was the Cold War.

No, a nuclear Iran would not significantly affect me. The only party it would negatively affect is Isreal. And that's an Isreali problem, not an American one.

 

[bhkad]

The US doesn't elect people abroad...

I fail to see how Iran is any crazier then the Soviet Union, with whom we tolerated a nuclear stalemate for 60 years.

HOW MANY ****ING TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE TOLD THAT THE IRANIAN LEADERSHIP IS APOCALYPTIC MINDED????

The Mystical Menace of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad - article by Daniel Pipes

No wonder you say crazy stuff. You are allergic to education.

 

[new coup for you]

"We will bury you"

-Nikita Khrushchev

And yet...holy crap...they didn't.

 

[bhkad]

Yes, American life screeched to a halt because of the sixty years of nuclear showdown that was the Cold War.

No, a nuclear Iran would not significantly affect me. The only party it would negatively affect is Isreal. And that's an Isreali problem, not an American one.

Your points of view reflect a profile of someone who is persistently ignorant and someone who professes opinions based almost entirely on emotion or sensation in order to achieve some sort of notoriety.

You are not a responsible or serious man and your opinions are largely ill-informed and un-informed and should bear no weight in any serious discussion.

Other than that, tell us more.

:mrgreen:

 

[mikhail]

The US doesn't elect people abroad...

I fail to see how Iran is any crazier then the Soviet Union, with whom we tolerated a nuclear stalemate for 60 years.

Im aware of that but i thought you might of been suggesting the US did some people would propose you did.

The difference is was the soviet leaders where atheists and didnt want to die and appreciated MAD.Also America didnt tolerate the soviet union having nukes they didnt have a choice and besides this there was always a serious threat of nuclear war.

So we can basically say its better less countries have nuclear weapons anyway but espacally those who dont have stable countries and have groups within them crazy enough to use them.

 

[new coup for you]

Your points of view reflect a profile of someone who is persistently ignorant and someone who professes opinions based almost entirely on emotion or sensation in order to achieve some sort of notoriety.

You are not a responsible or serious man and your opinions are largely ill-informed and un-informed and should bear no weight in any serious discussion.

Other than that, tell us more.

:mrgreen:

You've now proven your point through the mighty weight of your opinion.

 

[oldreliable67]

"We will bury you"

-Nikita Khrushchev

And yet...holy crap...they didn't.

It wouldn't take much study for you to apprise yourself of the significant differences between khrushchev and Ahmadinejad and the power and political structures of their respective countries - differences that render your suggested comparison moot.

 

[new coup for you]

Im aware of that but i thought you might of been suggesting the US did some people would propose you did.

The difference is was the soviet leaders where atheists and didnt want to die and appreciated MAD.Also America didnt tolerate the soviet union having nukes they didnt have a choice and besides this there was always a serious threat of nuclear war.

So we can basically say its better less countries have nuclear weapons anyway but espacally those who dont have stable countries and have groups within them crazy enough to use them.

Have you ever heard of the withering of the state, historical inevitabillity, the dialectic method, international class uprising or the wheel of time?

The communists were every bit as insane as any religious fanatics.

 

[new coup for you]

It wouldn't take much study for you to apprise yourself of the significant differences between khrushchev and Ahmadinejad and the power and political structures of their respective countries - differences that render your suggested comparison moot.

The main difference is that the Soviets could actually do it whereas a nuclear Iran would still probably be incapable of threatening the US significantly.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Your points of view reflect a profile of someone who is persistently ignorant and someone who professes opinions based almost entirely on emotion or sensation in order to achieve some sort of notoriety.
You are not a responsible or serious man and your opinions are largely ill-informed and un-informed and should bear no weight in any serious discussion.

translation:
​

 

[oldreliable67]

The main difference is that the Soviets could actually do it whereas a nuclear Iran would still probably be incapable of threatening the US significantly.

So you want to wait until the Iranians can actually do it, too, before acting?

Once they have sufficient fissile material from their ongoing enrichment programs, what do you think they are likely to do with it?

 

[mikhail]

Have you ever heard of the withering of the state, historical inevitabillity, the dialectic method, international class uprising or the wheel of time?

The communists were every bit as insane as any religious fanatics.

No they werent this idea everyone in russia at the time where fanatics for communism just isnt true people where more concerned with the mess their own lives where often in than destroying America same thing within Iran.In soviet russa there was a lot of lip service paid but barely anyone was prepared to see the end of the world.

Those who truly believe in a greater life after death arent afraid to unleash hell on the lesser world.A more accurate comparison would be the most damage done by the soviets was to their general population and eastern europe.The same is true for the general populations in the more extremist countries in the middle east.

 

[new coup for you]

They're likely to do what every nation in the history of nuclear weapons has done (except the US, interestingly enough): sit on it, and be happy in the knoweldge that the US can't arbitraily invade their country.

 

[new coup for you]

No they werent this idea everyone in russia at the time where fanatics for communism just isnt true people where more concerned with the mess their own lives where often in than destroying America same thing within Iran.In soviet russa there was a lot of lip service paid but barely anyone was prepared to see the end of the world.

Those who truly believe in a greater life after death arent afraid to unleash hell on the lesser world.A more accurate comparison would be the most damage done by the soviets was to their general population and eastern europe.The same is true for the general populations in the more extremist countries in the middle east.

The idea that everyone in Russia were communist fanatics is as absurd as the idea that everyone in Iran is Islamic fanatics.

In communism people believed that magic would create heaven on earth if the Believers could smite the Unbelievers.

In Islam people people believe that magic can create heaven on Earth if the Believers smite the Unbelievers.

Big difference.

 

[mikhail]

The idea that everyone in Russia were communist fanatics is as absurd as the idea that everyone in Iran is Islamic fanatics.

In communism people believed that magic would create heaven on earth if the Believers could smite the Unbelievers.

In Islam people people believe that magic can create heaven on Earth if the Believers smite the Unbelievers.

Big difference.

In communism it is actually magic though its just a very bad system of government.They knew dropping nukes would end them even those who where the biggest supporters of communism knew this.So its not the same in anyway.

 

[oldreliable67]

They're likely to do what every nation in the history of nuclear weapons has done (except the US, interestingly enough): sit on it, and be happy in the knoweldge that the US can't arbitraily invade their country.

It is that "likely" part that is so worrisome. Never in the history of modern weapons or warfare will a purely theocratic regime possessed weapons with such destructive power. Moreover, the closer Iranian possession of nuclear weapons comes to being a reality, the more frantic will be the scramble for the other ME nations (SA, Egypt, Jordan, et al) to possess their own weapons in a ME version of MAD, resulting in a mad proliferation of these weapons in other suspect regimes.

The central problem is our lack of knowledge about exactly how far a theocratic regime will go in its pursuit of fulfilling what some of its leaders have publicly and ostensibly embraced as their reason for living and their concomitant willingness to martyr not only themselves but their countrymen as well. We just don't know if they will respect the lives of innocents even if they are willing to martyr themselves. Their rhetoric suggests not.

Whatever values we may wish to ascribe to them in this regard, the fact is that we just don't know. Consequently, it seems to me that it is pretty risky to wait until they are capable of supplying an unacceptable answer to that question before acting. "Before acting," does not mean invading or necessarily even preemptive air strikes; it means continuing to try to exert whatever diplomatic efforts are possible.

 

[new coup for you]

You people need to study communism.

It will reveal to you how deeply insane a religion it is.

And yes, it really, really is a religion.

 

[mikhail]

You people need to study communism.

It will reveal to you how deeply insane a religion it is.

And yes, it really, really is a religion.

Communism can be something like a religion to people but the outcome of it isnt being unconcerned about MAD. The soviet union can be summed by people having no choice to be dependent on the state.

 

[Hatuey]

There you go again, I never said a damn thing about invading Iran, did I? I suggest strategic air strikes and it dosn't have to be by us. Israel is the one being threatened. We should support them in the effort to stop this mad man before its to late.

If we do nothing and he makes good on his promise to wipe Israel off the map people like you will blame America saying it was our fault for being in the middle east. And blame Israel for existing. Either way the blame America first crowd will do just that no matter what happens. Even if this mad man nukes a sovereign nation.

If Israel goes to war so will we. It's really not an option. The Arab League will try and gang up on Israel. The U.S. like any good old ally will do it's best to protect Israel and pow. WWIII. Our men and women in Iraq are getting attacked from all sides except Turkey and even they will have trouble stopping their Muslim extremists from crossing over.

 

[mikhail]

If Israel goes to war so will we. It's really not an option. The Arab League will try and gang up on Israel. The U.S. like any good old ally will do it's best to protect Israel and pow. WWIII. Our men and women in Iraq are getting attacked from all sides except Turkey and even they will have trouble stopping their Muslim extremists from crossing over.

Ya know you would really be surprised how secular turkey is its really far away i think france produces more radical muslims than turkey.Im really notsure on this idea of the Arabs helping Iran so much ethier not to the point they send in everything they got behind them.Saudi arabia for i think would happily sit back and watch the jews and shiites kill each other.