Involuntary Servitude part 8: Child Support

[Lursa]

Yes she should have used protection. That was her FIRST dumb decision

How about 'him?' Did he participate in that 'dumb' decision? :mrgreen:

 

[vegas giants]

How about 'him?' Did he participate in that 'dumb' decision? :mrgreen:

Yes. But you seem to ONLY want to focus on his dumb decision. It takes two.

 

[year2late]

Yes she should have used protection. That was her FIRST dumb decision

She and he!

 

[vegas giants]

She and he!

I agree completely. I only hear about his bad decisions

 

[year2late]

Yes. But you seem to ONLY want to focus on his dumb decision. It takes two.

Bull!

 

[vegas giants]

Bull!

Thank you for your well thought out opinion

 

[year2late]

Thank you for your well thought out opinion

Well thought out after mulling reading dozens of your posts on this specific issue.

 

[vegas giants]

Well thought out after mulling reading dozens of your posts on this specific issue.

Thank you

 

[Celebrity]

Men who "let" women have abortions? Now who is the controlling one?

Those were your words. I think we all know by now that you want men to be controlled by women. You said you were "in awe" of men who "let" women "do the birth control."

 

[year2late]

men have rights. Your statements that they do not is not true.

You may want them to have additional rights (op out) but that is your fight.

As a taxpayer, I do not want to support a child unless both parents are attempting to support to the best of their ability.

Because taxpayers are involved, I do not see major changes in this.

What I could see major changes are in custody and child support structure. I know men and women (yes women) who are paying obscene amounts and are essentially not free to change employment because if would mean more court dates and more money out the window.

I will never stop believing that both should be using birth control. I am in awe of the numbers of men that still let the woman alone do the birth control. If I was a guy who was not ready to be a dad, I would suit up even if she showed me the doctors report for the tubal ligation !.

You are in awe of men who let women alone do birth control?

You should really be thankful, since abortion is a form of birth control. Men who let women have abortions are truly kind and compassionate, unlike you.

Those were your words. I think we all know by now that you want men to be controlled by women. You said you were "in awe" of men who "let" women "do the birth control."

If you missed what I was trying to convey, I apologize.

I was indicating I was in awe of why a man would rely on only birth control that the woman is using. If I was a guy that did not want the responsibilities of fatherhood - I would not give a hoot what the woman was using. I would use a condom each and every time. I would supply my own and discard my own.

So yes, I am in awe of men that say they want nothing to do with a baby yet rely on the woman alone to be responsible for birth control. Why would they take such chances knowing they will be responsible and definitely do not want to be???

 

[Celebrity]

If you missed what I was trying to convey, I apologize.

I was indicating I was in awe of why a man would rely on only birth control that the woman is using. If I was a guy that did not want the responsibilities of fatherhood - I would not give a hoot what the woman was using. I would use a condom each and every time. I would supply my own and discard my own.

So yes, I am in awe of men that say they want nothing to do with a baby yet rely on the woman alone to be responsible for birth control. Why would they take such chances knowing they will be responsible and definitely do not want to be???

I did not miss what you were trying to convey. I completely understand that you think that people without rights should take precaution to avoid being punished.

If women and men are treated equally, women who have abortions (women who choose to not accept parenthood being a condition of their life) should be thrown in jail if they cannot afford to pay an exorbitant fine for about two decades. They should be insulted and abused by members of their sex for not being enough of a woman and not "womaning up" to take care of their "responsibility."

Oh - and if you missed the point I was trying to convey - I'm glad this is not the case for women. But men do not deserve to be abused so that women can live comfortably.

What a joke!

a) men have zero decision-making over a woman's decision to have an abortion.

I'm glad we agree. Since men have zero decision making over a woman's decision to choose to be a parent (or not), women should also have no decision over whether or not a man chooses to be a parent. If you cannot agree with this, then you are sexist.

 

[year2late]

Child support is not punishment. It is taking responsibility for your actions.

You are just hurt that a woman has an extra choice.

 

[Celebrity]

Child support is not punishment. It is taking responsibility for your actions.

You are just hurt that a woman has an extra choice.

If by that you mean: I am hurt that I am forced to take responsibility for someone else's actions, and that I am treated like a second class citizen, then yes.

Your post is very gynocentric. Notice how you fail to address men, and focus on a privilege of women instead.

But your premise is false. Putative paternity is a punishment. Child support enforcement is due to a woman's choice, not any action of a man.

No matter how many times you repeat this fallacy, it will still be false. I am not taking responsibility for my actions by making a payment to the government. Childbirth is not an action of mine.

When you pay taxes, you are adding to a fund which might be used for municipal services, administrative costs, and social welfare according to policy made by your elected representatives.

Unless your assertion is that I have not been voting hard enough, then you are wrong. But I cannot take responsibility for something which only a woman chooses to do. I am not a woman.

 

[Lursa]

I'm glad we agree. Since men have zero decision making over a woman's decision to choose to be a parent (or not), women should also have no decision over whether or not a man chooses to be a parent. If you cannot agree with this, then you are sexist.

That does not follow at all, your logic is flawed.

The man makes a decision when he has sex to risk a pregnancy that he knows he has no control over. He chooses to gamble....so then he is responsible for the consequences.

A) Are you saying men are incapable of making this decision in their own best interests?

or

B) Are you saying that men shouldnt have to...that they should be able to have sex without consequences?

And since men today are getting pregnant and carrying unborn and delivering them...I believe that such decisions and laws should apply 100% equally to them...so there's zero sexist in my position. Women would/should have no ability to opt-out.

Please answer the very direct questions in bold. You avoid this. You demand answers but dont bother doing the same.

 

[vegas giants]

That does not follow at all, your logic is flawed.

The man makes a decision when he has sex to risk a pregnancy that he knows he has no control over. He chooses to gamble....so then he is responsible for the consequences.

A) Are you saying men are incapable of making this decision in their own best interests?

or

B) Are you saying that men shouldnt have to...that they should be able to have sex without consequences.

And since men today are getting pregnant and carrying unborn and delivering them...I believe that such decisions and laws should apply 100% equally to them...so there's zero sexist in my position. Women would/should have no ability to opt-out.

Please answer the very direct questions in bold. You avoid this. You demand answers but dont bother doing the same.

A man can die from having had sex. How is that sex without consequences?

 

[vegas giants]

Child support is not punishment. It is taking responsibility for your actions.

You are just hurt that a woman has an extra choice.

Both should have that choice

 

[Lursa]

A man can die from having had sex. How is that sex without consequences?

We have only been discussing reproductive consequences.

However it's completely equal and not an issue to consider heart attacks or STDs, since both genders are equally vulnerable.

I see you need to go into completely irrelevant realms to attempt to remain relevant in the discussion. I appreciate the display on your part....your other arguments have all failed and this is your (hopefully last?) attempt?

 

[vegas giants]

We have only been discussing reproductive consequences.

However it's completely equal and not an issue to consider heart attacks or STDs, since both genders are equally vulnerable.

I see you need to go into completely irrelevant realms to attempt to remain relevant in the discussion. I appreciate the display on your part....your other arguments have all failed and this is your (hopefully last?) attempt?

We are also discussing financial consequences.

A man also risks having a child he desperately wants killed and he can have no say in that

 

[Lursa]

I'm glad we agree. Since men have zero decision making over a woman's decision to choose to be a parent (or not), women should also have no decision over whether or not a man chooses to be a parent. If you cannot agree with this, then you are sexist.

That does not follow at all, your logic is flawed.

And since men today are getting pregnant and carrying unborn and delivering them...I believe that such decisions and laws should apply 100% equally to them...so there's zero sexist in my position. Women would/should have no ability to opt-out.

And you have an excellent record of believing that you can turn a sexist statement into a non-sexist statement by reversing the roles in the statement.

Not cool, Lursa, and very wrong of you. I'd go so far as to say it's not very excellent of you. I'm confused as to how you came to that conclusion if you are such a good judge of being incorrect, having been proven wrong by me many times in the past, due to your fallacious, hypocritical claims.

I'm not remotely sexist. I have posted time and again that if and when men become pregnant...I support all the exact same laws for them...and men are indeed getting pregnant now.

And as for laws pertaining to kids AFTER they're born, I support those laws to be equal as well.

So tack this to your fridge and remember it the next time you think I'm being sexist. Cuz I'll just call you out on being wrong...again.

:lamo :lamo

 

[Lursa]

A man can die from having had sex. How is that sex without consequences?

We are also discussing financial consequences.

A man also risks having a child he desperately wants killed and he can have no say in that

There are no financial consequences if you're dead.

:lamo:lamo:lamo

Oh lordy, yer killin' me here! (pun intended)

You fail once again. (And way to go on the whole 'noble moral equality' High Ground there! Nice wrap up.)

 

[vegas giants]

There are no financial consequences if you're dead.

:lamo:lamo:lamo

Oh lordy, yer killin' me here! (pun intended)

You fail once again. (And way to go on the whole 'noble moral equality' High Ground there! Nice wrap up.)

There are no financial consequences if an abortion takes place either.

A man also risks having a child he desperately wants killed and he can have no say in that

 

[Lursa]

There are no financial consequences if an abortion takes place either.

A man also risks having a child he desperately wants killed and he can have no say in that

Hey, feel free to sing it proud again.

You fail once again. (And way to go on the whole 'noble moral equality' High Ground there! Nice wrap up.)

And let me know when dead people...you know, the ones that die from sex you referred to...worry about financial consequences.

 

[vegas giants]

Hey, feel free to sing it proud again.



And let me know when dead people...you know, the ones that die from sex you referred to...worry about financial consequences.

A man can be filled with grief over the loss of his potential child. A great and heavy consequence

 

[year2late]

There are no financial consequences if an abortion takes place either.

A man also risks having a child he desperately wants killed and he can have no say in that

Ahhh...so abortions are free. Good to know. Ahhh a woman does not have to take time off to have an abortion. Good to know,

Oh wait. Wrong.

 

[vegas giants]

Ahhh...so abortions are free. Good to know. Ahhh a woman does not have to take time off to have an abortion. Good to know,

Oh wait. Wrong.

I welcome her being compensated from the man for that. Glad we have reached an agreement on a male opt out post conception