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Intelligent Design gets the smackdown it deserves

shuamort

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Article

Judge's opinion:
H. Conclusion
The proper application of both the endorsement and Lemon tests to the facts of this case makes it abundantly clear that the Board’s ID Policy violates the Establishment Clause. In making this determination, we have addressed the seminal question of whether ID is science. We have concluded that it is not, and moreover that ID cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents.

Both Defendants and many of the leading proponents of ID make a bedrock assumption which is utterly false. Their presupposition is that evolutionary theory is antithetical to belief in the existence of a supreme being and to religion in general. Repeatedly in this trial, Plaintiffs’ scientific experts testified that the theory of evolution represents good science, is overwhelmingly accepted by the scientific community, and that it in no way conflicts with, nor does it deny, the existence of a divine creator. To be sure, Darwin’s theory of evolution is imperfect. However, the fact that a scientific theory cannot yet render an explanation on every point should not be used as a pretext to thrust an untestable alternative hypothesis grounded in religion into the science classroom or to misrepresent well-established scientific propositions.

The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy. It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy.

With that said, we do not question that many of the leading advocates of ID have bona fide and deeply held beliefs which drive their scholarly endeavors. Nor do we controvert that ID should continue to be studied, debated, and discussed. As stated, our conclusion today is that it is unconstitutional to teach ID as an alternative to evolution in a public school science classroom.

Those who disagree with our holding will likely mark it as the product of an
activist judge. If so, they will have erred as this is manifestly not an activist Court. Rather, this case came to us as the result of the activism of an ill-informed faction on a school board, aided by a national public interest law firm eager to find a constitutional test case on ID, who in combination drove the Board to adopt an imprudent and ultimately unconstitutional policy. The breathtaking inanity of the Board’s decision is evident when considered against the factual backdrop which has now been fully revealed through this trial. The students, parents, and teachers of the Dover Area School District deserved better than to be dragged into this legal maelstrom, with its resulting utter waste of monetary and personal resources.
To preserve the separation of church and state mandated by the
Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, and Art. I, § 3 of the Pennsylvania Constitution, we will enter an order permanently enjoining Defendants from maintaining the ID Policy in any school within the Dover Area School District, from requiring teachers to denigrate or disparage the scientific theory of evolution, and from requiring teachers to refer to a religious, alternative theory known as ID. We will also issue a declaratory judgment that Plaintiffs’ rights under the Constitutions of the United States and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania have been violated by Defendants’ actions.
Defendants’ actions in violation of Plaintiffs’ civil rights as guaranteed to them by the Constitution of the United States and 42 U.S.C. § 1983 subject Defendants toliability with respect to injunctive and declaratory relief, but also for nominal damages and the reasonable value of Plaintiffs’ attorneys’ services and costsincurred in vindicating Plaintiffs’ constitutional rights.


NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS ORDERED THAT:
1. A declaratory judgment is hereby issued in favor of Plaintiffs pursuant
to 28 U.S.C. §§ 2201, 2202, and 42 U.S.C. § 1983 such that
Defendants’ ID Policy violates the Establishment Clause of the First
Amendment of the Constitution of the United States and Art. I, § 3 of
the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
2. Pursuant to Fed.R.Civ.P. 65, Defendants are permanently enjoined
from maintaining the ID Policy in any school within the Dover Area
School District.
3. Because Plaintiffs seek nominal damages, Plaintiffs shall file with the
Court and serve on Defendants, their claim for damages and a verified
statement of any fees and/or costs to which they claim entitlement.
Defendants shall have the right to object to any such fees and costs to
the extent provided in the applicable statutes and court rules.
s/John E. Jones III
John E. Jones III
United States District Judge
Did that school board get served or what! Time for a happy dance for logic!
 
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shuamort

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By the way, before this goes nuts, let it be known that Judge Jones was appointed by George W Bush.
Judge John E. Jones III commenced his service as a United States District Judge on August 2, 2002. He is the 21st judge to sit in the Middle District of Pennsylvania. Judge Jones was appointed to his current position by President George W. Bush in February, 2002, and was unanimously confirmed by the United States Senate on July 30, 2002.
 

aps

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Intelligent design cannot be taught in public schools

I am thrilled with this ruling. When I was growing up, I had "CCD" once a week that was associated with my church--not the public school system.

Judge rules against ‘intelligent design’

'Religious alternative' to evolution cannot be taught in public school classes

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10545387/
 

shuamort

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Mod Note.

Merged your thread into mine.

/Mod Note
 

aps

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shuamort said:
Mod Note.

Merged your thread into mine.

/Mod Note
Was mine up before yours was? If so, cool. If not, how dare you. ;)

I'm kidding. This is a great ruling.

I saw yours was way ahead of mine. What am I, blind? How could I have missed that?
 

shuamort

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I beat ya by an hour. I'm still a bit shocked by how direct his ruling was and how he didn't tiptoe around words. It was amazing. It was the kind of ruling that I wanna smoke a cigarette after and bask in the glow.
 

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shuamort said:
I beat ya by an hour. I'm still a bit shocked by how direct his ruling was and how he didn't tiptoe around words. It was amazing. It was the kind of ruling that I wanna smoke a cigarette after and bask in the glow.
Yeah, really. That judge tore the ID guys a new one, even preemptively responding to the inevitable cries of him being an "activist judge". Kudos to him for saying frankly what all reasonable Americans have been saying the whole time.
 

aps

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shuamort said:
I beat ya by an hour. I'm still a bit shocked by how direct his ruling was and how he didn't tiptoe around words. It was amazing. It was the kind of ruling that I wanna smoke a cigarette after and bask in the glow.
So things like this get you going? Interesting.............
 

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Thanks for the move. I would have put it here but...well it is breaking news.

But seriously Pat totally did this one in with his comment about God not helping PA when a tragedy comes because of the school commitee vote out.

What a chode....:rofl
 

YNKYH8R

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shuamort said:
I beat ya by an hour. I'm still a bit shocked by how direct his ruling was and how he didn't tiptoe around words. It was amazing. It was the kind of ruling that I wanna smoke a cigarette after and bask in the glow.
Dude..what are we talking about a slow comfortable screw on the beach or taking a nice heelthy steaming crap? :wink3:
 

shuamort

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YNKYH8R said:
Dude..what are we talking about a slow comfortable screw on the beach or taking a nice heelthy steaming crap? :wink3:
I'm thinking a nice steaming crap on the school board's desk. Although, I don't think it's as needed after this judge's decision.
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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shuamort said:
I beat ya by an hour. I'm still a bit shocked by how direct his ruling was and how he didn't tiptoe around words. It was amazing. It was the kind of ruling that I wanna smoke a cigarette after and bask in the glow.
The best part about it is that the judge was not only a Republican, not only a "churchgoer", but an Bush appointee.

But I'm still saddened at the ruling. Will it preclude the science teacher's ability to use ID as a basis of comparison between a real theory (evolution) and a dogma (ID)?
 

kal-el

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Good. I'm glad some are actually thinking rationally. Superstition finally got exactly what it deserves, it far overstayed it's welcome.
 

kal-el

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Simon W. Moon said:
It's much more welcomed than you may imagine.
Yea, by fellow bible-thumpers that can twist themselves through a corkscrew, and check all logical and rational thought at the door.
 

Simon W. Moon

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kal-el said:
Yea, by fellow bible-thumpers that can twist themselves through a corkscrew, and check all logical and rational thought at the door.
I expect you'll find that the sample is actually much larger than the subset of humanity you have cited.
 

kal-el

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Simon W. Moon said:
I expect you'll find that the sample is actually much larger than the subset of humanity you have cited.
Well, anyway you wanna twist it, creationism in a "lab coat" still lost footing. It is funny, that the judge that made the ruling was one of Bush's appointees.:lol:
 

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The point was made on one of the networks that if they can't get ID in Dover, they are not likely to get it anywhere. Dover is mostly white, mostly Christian, and mostly conservative.
I was reading in one book, Religion in American Public Life, that based on surveys, religious leaders and lobby groups are likely to be 2 to 3 times more conservative than the congregations that they supposedly represent.
 

steen

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shuamort said:
By the way, before this goes nuts, let it be known that Judge Jones was appointed by George W Bush.
The same bush who thought that teaching ID was a fine and dandy idea. :rofl Oh, the irony. the ID liars are stuck where it hurts, in their dishonesty.

That the fundie nuts on the school board now have cost the district a bunch of money in court costs, that merely shows how reckless the fundie crowd is with kids education, that they are willing to sacrifice it for their theocratic, lying agenda. Shame on them.
 

steen

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shuamort said:
I'm thinking a nice steaming crap on the school board's desk. Although, I don't think it's as needed after this judge's decision.
Most of the school board members who pushed this insanity were booted in the last election anyway. The local paper has been following this extensively since its onset:
http://www.ydr.com/doverbiology
 
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What saddens me is that, the judges has not yet defined that ID is theology based theory, that should be taught in R.E, not biology classes.

I don't have a problem with I.D being taught in Sunday school, or R.E classes, but to teach it in biology class, is intellectually wrong.

Anyway, evolution doesn't ever claim that God doesn't exist. Maybe that is what should be put at the start of these books. Instead of the usual, "there are other theories about the development of life".

I don't see how evolution is incompatible with a belief in god...:think:
 

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I find it funny and sad that a nation that is meant to be modern and industrialised is still fighting over the seperation of religion and state. In that concept the US is WAY behind everyone else.
Even South Africa has become more progressionist than the US (they legalized Gay Marriage.) My province Northern Ireland has suffered 30 years of terrorism and religous bigotry, and yet Gay Marriage came into effect on Monday.

In my personal opinion the US has to take a hard look at itself in where it is going.

Did you hear what Pat Robertson said about Dover?
Dover's residents should no longer turn to God, even in "a natural disaster" because they have "relegated him from the city".

Yeah very christain indeed.
 

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GarzaUK said:
Did you hear what Pat Robertson said about Dover?
Dover's residents should no longer turn to God, even in "a natural disaster" because they have "relegated him from the city".
Yeah very christain indeed.
The Ayatollah Robertson is one reason that real Christians want more separation of church and state....:(
 

steen

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Even more interesting article at "Skeptic"

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/05-12-20.html

It explains the strategy and history behind the parties of the suit, especially the "Pandas and People" textbook, which is proved was originally a creationist textbook, until the courtcase making such illegal in science class. It then simply substituted the words "Intelluigent design" into the manuscript, outright PROVING that ID is nothing more than creationism:

"It turns out that there was not one early draft of Pandas but several, and they had kept copies of all of them. The first was called Creation Biology (1983), followed by Biology and Creation (1986), Biology and Origins (early 1987), and two drafts with the final title Of Pandas and People, both from 1987. The final version was published in 1989, with a revised edition released in 1993. Not only did the early drafts use various cognates of clearly creationist language — creation science, creation, creationist, etc. — rather than “intelligent design,” they also used the very same definitions for both, with only the change in the word being defined."

As a BONUS, it also nails Behe, incl the claims he has made about his work being peer-revieewed, showing Behe an outright liar:
"On the stand, Behe tried to establish that his book had been subjected to peer review, one of the bedrock processes of vetting the credibility of scientific writings. He testified that his book had undergone even more thorough review than a normal journal article would have because of the controversial nature of the subject. He specifically named Dr. Michael Atchison of the University of Pennsylvania as one of the book’s reviewers. But NCSE’s Matzke remembered an article written by Atchison in which he stated that he had not reviewed the book at all but had only held a ten minute phone conversation with the book’s editor over the general content. When the plaintiffs’ attorney introduced this article during cross-examination, it was clearly a blow to Behe’s claim that his book had “received much more scrutiny and much more review before publication than the great majority of scientific journal articles.”

"One of Behe’s central claims has been that there is no serious scientific work or progress on how complex biochemical systems like the flagellum, the blood-clotting cascade, and the immune system could have evolved, and he testified as much. Plaintiffs’ attorneys, in a Perry Mason-like flourish, pointedly dropped dozens of peer-reviewed books and journal articles about the evolution of such systems in front of him; Behe admitted that he had read virtually none of them."

"They also questioned him about a paper he had written in 2004, widely regarded by creationists as a peer-reviewed pro-ID paper. That cross examination established that, despite the fact that he and his co-author had essentially rigged the parameters of the simulation to make evolution as unlikely as possible, biochemical systems requiring multiple unselected mutations — the very type of system he claims could not have evolved in a stepwise fashion — could evolve in a relatively short period of time."

The dishonesty of the creationists/IDers have rarely been so dramatically and thoroughly evidenced.

Ding DONG, the Lie is Dead. :rofl
 

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I must say... I was surprised by the ruling. I fully expected this judge appointed by Bush to somehow let ID slip thru the cracks.

What I want to know is
1) do the id supporters really think we are dumb enough to believe ID is of scientific bent or is it just a leagal ploy?
2) are id supporters dumb enough to believe ID is a scientific theory?
3)How come if pressure is constant in a closed system using gas law ( P*V = m * R * T), why does soda explode when you shake the can?


Yup it's happy dance time :2party:
 
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