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Intelligent Design Confirms a Creator...

Manc Skipper said:
So the bible is not the word of god inerrant, it's just that everybody misinterprets it except you JW guys! You'd think a perfect being would have made it crystal clear.
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God is perfect, but humans, which she made to worship her, are imperfect and not always able to comprehend her magnificence. So we're left to rely on the words of randos on the internet to explain to us why they understand things that they can't explain and can't prove and how that makes them better than the rest of us.

Religion is the worst thing that has ever happened to the human race and the planet Earth.
 
Elora said:
YOU did the same thing, you took my words out of context...I said this...



You only quoted me saying this...

You ignored my original post...notice the bolded in the original...
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"there are no contradictions when understood correctly"

"yet, there are contradictions in the scriptures"

You really don't see what the rest of us see, do you? And yet you see things that no one else sees. That's not weird to you?
 
Airyaman said:
How do we know an ancient race of aliens didn't create our planet?
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We don't know that. Neither does Elora know that "God" created our planet. But I'll be damned if she doesn't spend most of her waking time spouting delusional nonsense into the internet.
 
Gordy327 said:
Your own words were quoted. Now you're trying to deflect or back pedal. And I'm still waiting for you to prove your previous claims.
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She has a strange way of talking. It reminds me of, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!" She's pretending to be wiser than everyone else in this forum, but when challenged, she melts into this nebulous, mystical non-speak and implies that we're just not enlightened enough to understand her baseless ramblings.
 
Logician Man said:
You may try to get that bird to fly, but it's an effort in futility, as the wings have already been clipped by you, yourself, with your very own contradicting positive claims in 'your' above post.. Think about it.
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I realize I'm about 18 days late to the party, but you positively owned Elora in this exchange. When faced when one's own self-imposed contradictions it's best to acknowledge the mistake and move on gracefully. In this case, she quadrupled down and called you a liar repeatedly. Gawd must be so proud.
 
DrewPaul said:
I don't agree with the OP that intelligent design theory is confirmed in any way. Belief our existence is due to a Creator(s) who intentionally caused the universe is reasonable.



Or we can say, "Derrr, this looks complicated and I cannot figure it out, therefore mindless forces without plan or intent caused it to happen". Is that any better?
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That isn't the basis of evolution science. "Derrr" doesn't factor into scientific testing. "Derrr" is trademarked by the mindless religious masses of helpless people.
 
Gnosis said:
She has a strange way of talking. It reminds me of, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!" She's pretending to be wiser than everyone else in this forum, but when challenged, she melts into this nebulous, mystical non-speak and implies that we're just not enlightened enough to understand her baseless ramblings.
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That about sums it up nicely.
 
DrewPaul said:
If you think the idea our existence was intentionally caused is false...what's left but mindless unintentional causes. You don't have to say it.
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Do you even know what evolution is?
 
DrewPaul said:
You won't find a quote where I said things are complicated therefore God. That's a straw-man argument.



I have no idea how a Creator transcendent to the universe caused one to exist. I'm not attempting to explain the nature of God, or how God came into existence. I'm offering an opinion about how a universe that created and caused intelligent life to exist came to be. You can ridicule my position by referring to magic sky daddy. I can mock and ridicule your position by saying I don't believe in a kindly benevolent mother nature that caused our existence. Or we can look at the available facts and make our respective cases.
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There are facts related to evolution theory. There are no facts related to intelligent design theory.
 
Elora said:
This video delves into the fact that science puts limitations on determining evolution versus intelligent design...IOW, they must have a closed mind when it comes to ID...it rules out the cause even before it has time to speak...

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Elora, with respect, I don't know the answer and I don't believe anyone living knows the answer. Not to toss a spanner in the works (he says as he deftly tosses a spanner into the work) but if we go the creator route there is nothing say that it cannot be creators, plural.
 
So you accept the refutation of your other claims. Great. Progress!
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I'm sure I didn't.

YOU made a claim about atheism in general. I had to inform you what atheism means in the broad sense, because you were wrong.
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I'm not talking to a definition of atheism I'm talking to you. Is it your contention God could well exist and may have been responsible for the existence of the of the universe and intelligent life but you simply lack that belief? You'd throw up before you would admit that.

And I specifically, then described the philosophical belief that god is imaginary, based on reason and the definition of god. That's the position I support. And it's not disbelief at all.
I believe, based on reason/logic, that most concepts of gods are imaginary, by definition. Just like a wide variety of other imaginary concepts, that we do not run around claiming are real.
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The concept of theism I present is the universe we observe was designed to cause stars, solar systems, planets, moons, dark energy, dark matter was intentionally caused to be the way it is. I use the same facts and evidence others use to support natural universe selection, other worlds theory, multiverse theory in its different flavors.

No matter how you slice it, do you do believe the universe as we observe it today could be just a single fluke phenomenon that unintentionally caused all we observe?
 
DrewPaul said:
No matter how you slice it, do you do believe the universe as we observe it today could be just a single fluke phenomenon that unintentionally caused all we observe?
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Do you believe that an Intelligent Designer could arise all on it own? If so, how? And if you can't answer that, then it shows that it is just a figment of your imagination.
 
DrewPaul said:
[...]



I'm not talking to a definition of atheism I'm talking to you. Is it your contention God could well exist and may have been responsible for the existence of the of the universe and intelligent life but you simply lack that belief? You'd throw up before you would admit that.



[...]
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I'm not talking to a definition of christianity I'm talking to you. Is it your contention Cheonji-wang could well exist and may have been responsible for the existence of the of the universe and intelligent life but you simply lack that belief? You'd throw up before you would admit that.
 
DrewPaul said:
Is it your contention God could well exist and may have been responsible for the existence of the of the universe and intelligent life but you simply lack that belief?
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That's not the definition of an atheist.
 
DrewPaul said:
I'm not talking to a definition of atheism I'm talking to you. Is it your contention God could well exist and may have been responsible for the existence of the of the universe and intelligent life but you simply lack that belief? You'd throw up before you would admit that.
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I've already explained to you that the common definitions of gods is, by definition, imaginary.
The concept of the supernatural, is literally outside of reality. In other words, "not real". Omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence....all contradictory to reasoning.
That's why religion uses faith form beliefs, they require no evidence or reasonable consistency.

Why do you think we have churches and bibles that are not considered science, but theism? Because they are two distinct areas of human thought and activity.
DrewPaul said:
I use the same facts and evidence others use to support natural universe selection, other worlds theory, multiverse theory in its different flavors.
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You use some of the same observation and incorrectly claim they are evidence of design, when they clearly are not.
You've been informed of this over and over. It's why you don't refute anything, you just keep restating what you wrote before.
Again, evidence of the existence of the universe and life within it, implies nothing about a "design" or a "creator".
And again, if it did, it would be seriously examined by science (it's not), and it would absurdly just beg the question who created the creator, and who created the creator's creator, and so on to infinity.
You don't seem to believe all those infinite number of other creation myths are real, why do you choose just one, when by your fallacious reasoning all could be true?
Why do you propose a creator, and not the creator of the creator of the creator? Are they randomly not worthy of your worship and consideration? Is it just a "fluke" that you only focus on one, and not the infinite multitude that your fallacies lead to?
DrewPaul said:
No matter how you slice it, do you do believe the universe as we observe it today could be just a single fluke phenomenon that unintentionally caused all we observe?
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Single? It's everything.
Fluke? Implies some "likelihood", for which we have no evidence. It simply is. We have no idea, nor do we even have a reasonable working concept, of how probable or not, reality as we observe it, is.
Intent? We only ascribe intent to sentient beings, and the universe, or any creation myth, has no evidence...so "intentionality" is irrelevant with respect to the universe.

Once again. The universe is. Beyond that philosophically we do not know, and we may not be *able* to know in principle.
And cosmologists who work on the "what created the universe" typically try to stick to principles of science and mathematics...extended out beyond good science yes, but they still keep to the universe as being a natural phenomenon.
Even Lee the guy you quoted earlier, has his own pet theory about black holes contributing to a sort of natural selection of universes, leading to the origins of our universe...all based loosely on science, and certainly not positing a theistic idea like a god!
 
DrewPaul said:
Do we know that mindless forces without plan or intent is capable of causing a universe that produces sentient beings capable of intent? Do we have evidence mechanistic forces without intending to or planning too could cause the myriad of conditions necessary for intelligent sentient humans to exist? Are mindless forces capable of creating a universe with exacting laws of physics that allow us to derive mathematical equations? Would you or anyone predict that mindless forces would create a universe that would cause intelligent beings to exist?

The idea there is no evidence is just a slogan that isn't true. The evidence for either of our points of view is the entire universe and everything we know. The question is what theory best explains what we observe?
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Evolution does not rely on "mindless forces". The archaeological record scientifically proves that organisms better suited to survive, thrive, and reproduce in their given environments did better than organisms that are less adapted. The more desirable traits are therefore transmitted at higher rates causing changes in the organisms over time. The only thing that evolution and intelligent design have in common is that they both seek to explain the origins of life and its current forms now.

Intelligent design attempts to solve a problem that doesn't exist, namely the straw man that you offered. Is it more likely that evolution relies on mindless forces or that an invisible, cosmic force intentionally created the entire observable universe? I can't believe that seemingly educated adults in modern times seriously argue about the answer.
 
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