Insulting his voters

[Baff]

As was everyone.

The difference between their level of tiredness and ours.... about a million troops. Better armed troops.
Better armed with a shorter logistics train. They rolled Germany and we stood back and watched them do it.
What else could we do?

Make no mistake, they were the senior partner in that war. Stalin called the shots.
Not Roosevelt and not Churchill.

Russia is unparalleled as a military power in Europe. It has been since that war.
That dead 20 million has served to motivate them somewhat.

 

[ataraxia]

Did they call the "Eastern Half" the Roman Empire?

Yes. In fact, for a long time the capital of the whole empire was in Constantinople (modern day Istanbul). In fact, when the Ottomans invaded them a thousand years later, they were still calling themselves "Romeoi"- Romans.

 

[ataraxia]

And check this: The Rise and Fall of Japan's Empire | HistoryBuff | The Future of History

:

I read the article you cited. I am not sure what point you are trying to make with it. It seems to have nothing to do with multiculturalism.

 

[Vox]

I read the article you cited. I am not sure what point you are trying to make with it. It seems to have nothing to do with multiculturalism.

You asked for an Empire that was not multicultural.

I gave you Japan's Empire.

:usflag2:

 

[ataraxia]

You asked for an Empire that was not multicultural.

I gave you Japan's Empire.

:usflag2:

I see. And so your conclusion from this is that all multicultural empires are doomed to die, and only monocultural empires are stable?

 

[Chagos]

I see. And so your conclusion from this is that all multicultural empires are doomed to die, and only monocultural empires are stable?

As we can see (irony alert) with Nippon.

Which, unfortunately for the rather silly argument presented here by someone else, didn't start forming an empire in the sense of ruling foreign lands until around the end of the 19th century.

 

[Baff]

All empires are doomed to end.

Certainly Japan is a good example of a mono-culture. As good as one gets.
They failed to assimilate their conquests however. I could make the case that their reign was short lived.

But who wants an empire?
Not me.

I do like the Japanese culture and their strong sense of self identity. I admire them greatly. I intend to become a Jap. So I'll be diluting that a bit for them. Their gene pool is weak. I intend to do something about that too.

 

[Vox]

I see. And so your conclusion from this is that all multicultural empires are doomed to die, and only monocultural empires are stable?

My conclusion is the same as it always was--multiculturalism brings huge problems and the least multicultural nations are more successful and more likely to endure.

:2usflag:

 

[ataraxia]

My conclusion is the same as it always was--multiculturalism brings huge problems and the least multicultural nations are more successful and more likely to endure.

:2usflag:

So how long did the empire of Japan last?

 

[ataraxia]

My conclusion is the same as it always was--multiculturalism brings huge problems and the least multicultural nations are more successful and more likely to endure.

:2usflag:

My examples of some multicultural empires: Rome, Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, Persia, China, British, Austrio-Hungarian, Ottoman, ...

Your examples of a "monocultural" empire: Japan, ....?

I don't know. Looking at your list, I don't see you making the case very well.

 

[Vox]

My examples of some multicultural empires: Rome, Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, Persia, China, British, Austrio-Hungarian, Ottoman, ...

Your examples of a "monocultural" empire: Japan, ....?

I don't know. Looking at your list, I don't see you making the case very well.

Except, you can't make a case that your examples are multicultural.

:2usflag:

 

[ataraxia]

Except, you can't make a case that your examples are multicultural.

:2usflag:

Which one of those empires was not multicultural?

Here, let's try one of them:

Here is the text from the Cyrus Cylinder, written over 2500 years ago, upon the conquest of Babylon by the Persian emperor Cyrus the Great. It is often considered the first statement of ideas of Human Rights and freedom to worship of all peoples in a large, multi-religious, multi-ethnic empire. He freed the Jews who were in captivity there. Being impressed with the wisdom and knowledge of the Jewish prophet of the time among them, Daniel, he gave him a very high post as an advisor to his court. He also took as one of his wives Esther, the Jewish princess. She went on to become a very influential figure in the empire. You can read her story in the Old Testament- The Book of Esther. Cyrus himself was Zoroastrian, the official court religion of the Persians at the time. But he allowed the Babylonians to continue to worship their own god, Marduk. He did not harm their temples or places of worship. He allowed people of many different ethnicities, religions, and tribes to return to their ancestral homelands from which they had been displaced by the Babylonians. The vision of the Biblical prophet known as Second Isaiah anticipates Cyrus' repatriation of Jews living in exile in Babylon with these words of the Lord: "He is my shepherd and will accomplish all that I please."He personally brought under his rule a dominion stretching from the Aegean Sea to the Hindu Kush mountains in India, encompassing some tens of millions of people at that time. All across this immense imperium, he earned support and stability by respecting local customs and religions, avoiding the brutal ways of tyranny, and efficiently and effectively administering the realm through provincial governors.

"I am Cyrus, king of the universe, the great king, the powerful king, king of Babylon, king of Sumer and Akkad, king of the four quarters of the world, son of Cambyses, the great king,, king of the city of Anshan, grandson of Cyrus, the great king, ki[ng of the ci]ty of Anshan, descendant of Teispes, the great king, king of Anshan, the perpetual seed of kingship, whose reign Bel and Nabu love, and with whose kingship, to their joy, they concern themselves.

When I went as harbinger of peace i[nt]o Babylon I founded my sovereign residence within the palace amid celebration and rejoicing. Marduk, the great lord, bestowed on me as my destiny the great magnanimity of one who loves Babylon, and I every day sought him out in awe. My vast troops marched peaceably in Babylon, and the whole of [Sumer] and Akkad had nothing to fear. I sought the welfare of the city of Babylon and all its sanctuaries. As for the population of Babylon […, w]ho as if without div[ine intention] had endured a yoke not decreed for them, I soothed their weariness, I freed them from their bonds...From [Shuanna] I sent back to their places to the city of Ashur and Susa, Akkad, the land of Eshnunna, the city of Zamban, the city of Meturnu, Der, as far as the border of the land of Qutu - the sanctuaries across the river Tigris - whose shrines had earlier become dilapidated, the gods who lived therein, and made permanent sanctuaries for them. I collected together all of their people and returned them to their homes and settlements..."
British Museum - The Cyrus Cylinder

The ancient Persian empire after Cyrus went on to become one of the largest land empires in world history, Stretching from what is now modern India and China, all the way to modern day Turkey and Greece, and for a time included Egypt and parts of North Africa as well. It lasted for over a millennium.

Here is a great book on Cyrus and his multicultural ways, and how it led to his tremendous success:

https://www.amazon.com/Discovering-Cyrus-Persian-Conqueror-Astride/dp/1933823380

 

[Chagos]

Except, you can't make a case that your examples are multicultural.

:2usflag:

WTH are you talking about ?

 

[zyzygy]

WTH are you talking about ?

Who knows?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Which one of those empires was not multicultural?

Here, let's try one of them:

Here is the text from the Cyrus Cylinder, written over 2500 years ago, upon the conquest of Babylon by the Persian emperor Cyrus the Great. It is often considered the first statement of ideas of Human Rights and freedom to worship of all peoples in a large, multi-religious, multi-ethnic empire. He freed the Jews who were in captivity there. Being impressed with the wisdom and knowledge of the Jewish prophet of the time among them, Daniel, he gave him a very high post as an advisor to his court. He also took as one of his wives Esther, the Jewish princess. She went on to become a very influential figure in the empire. You can read her story in the Old Testament- The Book of Esther. Cyrus himself was Zoroastrian, the official court religion of the Persians at the time. But he allowed the Babylonians to continue to worship their own god, Marduk. He did not harm their temples or places of worship. He allowed people of many different ethnicities, religions, and tribes to return to their ancestral homelands from which they had been displaced by the Babylonians. The vision of the Biblical prophet known as Second Isaiah anticipates Cyrus' repatriation of Jews living in exile in Babylon with these words of the Lord: "He is my shepherd and will accomplish all that I please."He personally brought under his rule a dominion stretching from the Aegean Sea to the Hindu Kush mountains in India, encompassing some tens of millions of people at that time. All across this immense imperium, he earned support and stability by respecting local customs and religions, avoiding the brutal ways of tyranny, and efficiently and effectively administering the realm through provincial governors.



View attachment 67215510

The ancient Persian empire after Cyrus went on to become one of the largest land empires in world history, Stretching from what is now modern India and China, all the way to modern day Turkey and Greece, and for a time included Egypt and parts of North Africa as well. It lasted for over a millennium.

Here is a great book on Cyrus and his multicultural ways, and how it led to his tremendous success:

https://www.amazon.com/Discovering-Cyrus-Persian-Conqueror-Astride/dp/1933823380

You went to a hell of a lot more effort than he ever will in backing up his ridiculous statements. You've probably learned a lesson on dealings with this poster in future.

 

[BillRM]

Since the FACT that multiculturalism was a large part of the fall of the Empire was proven on another thread......why don't you go there and voice your concerns? Try to stay on topic here.

Sorry there was a lot of reasons why the first the Rome Republic ended and then the Roman Empire but neither had a damn thing to do with multiculturalism.

Hell the Rome Republic even fought a long civil war with the populations of other Rome cities outside of Rome proper with a death totals in the hundreds of thousands before it would grant Rome citizenship to even them.

Perhaps you are referring to the problems that the success of the Roman legions that cause the flooding of Rome with cheap slave labor and allowing the rich to buy up and work large tracks of lands that before belong to the lower Rome class and resulted in the lower classes no longer being stakeholders in the Republic.

However the Romans did not adopt the cultures of the slaves except for the Greek to a small degree and the Rome Empire after the republic fell survive for half a thousand years if you only count the Western Empire and far longer for the Eastern branch of the Empire.

To sum up nonsense is nonsense and multiculturalism as a reason for either the roman republic or the roman empire to fall is nonsense.

 

[BillRM]

Did they call the "Eastern Half" the Roman Empire?

LOL!

Only Modern historians does not call them the Roman Empire the name that they and those surrounding them used for many many centuries.

 

[Vox]

Only Modern historians does not call them the Roman Empire the name that they and those surrounding them used for many many centuries.

Good for you.

You're a great expert.

 

[Wessexman]

What, as a point of interest, would those have been?

His nomination of Gorsuch, which makes up everything else so far on its own. But also his reversal of overreach by federal agencies like the EPA and DoE, and his attempts to get serious about the absurd state of immigration policy in America.

 

[Chagos]

His nomination of Gorsuch, which makes up everything else so far on its own. But also his reversal of overreach by federal agencies like the EPA and DoE, and his attempts to get serious about the absurd state of immigration policy in America.

Thanks for detailing.

 

[ataraxia]

Only Modern historians does not call them the Roman Empire the name that they and those surrounding them used for many many centuries.

Modern historians do often use the terms "Byzantine Empire" and "Eastern Roman Empire" interchangeably.

The Byzantine Empire, also referred to as the Eastern Roman Empire, was the continuation of the Roman Empire in the East during Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, when its capital city was Constantinople (modern-day Istanbul, which had been founded as Byzantium). It survived the fragmentation and fall of the Western Roman Empire in the 5th century AD and continued to exist for an additional thousand years until it fell to the Ottoman Turks in 1453.[1] During most of its existence, the empire was the most powerful economic, cultural, and military force in Europe. Both "Byzantine Empire" and "Eastern Roman Empire" are historiographical terms created after the end of the realm; its citizens continued to refer to their empire as the Roman Empire (Greek: Βασιλεία τῶν Ῥωμαίων, tr. Basileia tôn Rhōmaiōn; Latin: Imperium Romanum),[2] or Romania (Ῥωμανία), and to themselves as "Romans".[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire

 

[BillRM]

Modern historians do often use the terms "Byzantine Empire" and "Eastern Roman Empire" interchangeably.

The point being however that the people of the Eastern Roman Empire and even the enemies of the Rome Empire never called it anything but the Roman Empire for the life of that Empire.

The name the Byzantine Empire was not their name or even their enemies name for their empire.

 

[Chagos]

The point being however that the people of the Eastern Roman Empire and even the enemies of the Rome Empire never called it anything but the Roman Empire for the life of that Empire.

The name the Byzantine Empire was not their name or even their enemies name for their empire.

With the possible exception of the Holy Roman Empire that came into being (revival of sorts) with the crowning of Charlemagne. They called Byzantium all sorts of things beside that name itself, but never "Rome".

 

[ataraxia]

The point being however that the people of the Eastern Roman Empire and even the enemies of the Rome Empire never called it anything but the Roman Empire for the life of that Empire.

The name the Byzantine Empire was not their name or even their enemies name for their empire.

Yes, this is true.

An interesting example: the famous medieval poet Rumi was born in what is now modern-day Afghanistan. He escaped west to flee the mongolian invasions of Genghis Khan, eventually settling in what is now modern-day Turkey, but back then was the Byzantine Empire . He wrote his poetry in his native Persian language. The name Rumi in Persian means "the Roman". This was a title by which he became famous later, including in his homeland. This just goes to show that if you lived in the Byzantine Empire in the 13th century, it would be natural that you would be called a Roman.

His love and mystical poetry has been extensively translated, including into English. In fact, I believe he often ranks at the top of the most read poets in the United States. Madonna even put one of his poems to song once recently, I guess a rather dubious distinction.

 

[Serenity]

And health care in the U.S. is the finest in the world.

It's really not much good having some of the best facilities in the world when people don't have access to them in an affordable and timely manner.