Inexplicably Shameless

[Fearandloathing]

I'm frankly just astounded. I always have been. This country was founded on an invasion of Europeans who despised being told to stop. The last thing these founders of The United States wanted to hear was "that's far enough!" or "you can't go there!" They didn't give a shit. They came by the hundreds of thousands with their slaves. Manifest Destiny and might makes right yadda yadda whoopdee whoop.
Fast forward and the descendants of these colonizers (their descendants, descendant-passing-people, and a few sad sell-out blacks and Mexicans who earnestly desire to be on the winning team) are constantly bitching and bemoaning the crossing of sacred invisible lines better known to the public as "borders".
I just don't get it. Where do white people get the. . . I don't know the right word. The nerve? The stones? The gall? I feel like if I use those words, they'll just take it as a compliment. It's not a compliment. You guys look goofy as all Christ to everyone, okay? You're white. You're not from here. You have no right to complain about borders on a land established through theft, genocide, and treaty breaking. I don't know what kind of happy-go-lucky-Disney-land version of Cowboy-colonizing they taught you in school but that just isn't how it happened. It was brutal. Women and children were raped and killed by the millions. There's no excuse except that you and I incidentally exist in this timeline. That's far from sufficient for justifying the murder and displacement of millions.
But that brings me to my final point: the **** am I going to do about it? I could sit here and beg you to see reason and advocate for central planning instead of decentralized coin-flipping-and-spin-the-bottle-economics. But adults should know inherently that that doesn't seem correct. Especially when the results are the hellish status quo you see before you all around. A proper adult with integrity would read about Communism before dismissing it outright. But we live among walking, driving, flying, and shooting children. Children do what their told. Children never question authority and the ones the authorities can use are rewarded handsomely. To keep people from coming together, you just have to convince them that some are better than others. It's quite simple.
So I suppose Western colonists can just go on dreaming their little dreams of being native to the land they conquer. It's right-wing drivel so it'll get the same hyper focus as left-wing culture war drivel. I'm just curious as to what they actually teach you people in school about this country's founding. Was is television, music, or social media that made you obsessed with borders and so comfortable complaining about them? Is your Spanish crappy and you refuse to learn? Do really think Capitalists are dishing out the sweetest gigs to the Mexicans? Or are you somehow self-aware and just born this intensely and inexplicably shameless? Again. The ****ing stones, men! Wow!

Hope that word salad was therapeutic and you got it all out of your system.

BTW, you cannot be "astounded" on a continuing basis. "Astonished, yes, but astounded would be a constant state of utter surprise, which would be impossible.

 

[Craig234]

But the ones that make immigrants their number one issue astound me with their audacity.

To be clear, here's how that works. People have some level of fear, resentment, whatever about 'foreigners'. trump wants to be a corrupt fascist dictator and asks pollsters what issue he can exploit. They tell him 'immigrants'. Then con man trump demagogues about immigrants and gets these fools to accept it as their 'number on issue'.

 

[Craig234]

The "legalized corruption" was legislated by Democrats in Congress.

Wrong. It was pushed by oligarchs, who corrupted the Supreme Court to legislate it, and installed Republicans who legislated it. Democrats are too complicit, but they're not who did it.

 

[B Cool]

Hope that word salad was therapeutic and you got it all out of your system.

BTW, you cannot be "astounded" on a continuing basis. "Astonished, yes, but astounded would be a constant state of utter surprise, which would be impossible.

I promise, every day I'm astounded. Like your nerve of confronting me with nary a disputation or refute. Amazing. Simply amazing.

edit: your narrow definition of astounded is complete and utter contrivance with little basis in reality.

 

[B Cool]

To be clear, here's how that works. People have some level of fear, resentment, whatever about 'foreigners'. trump wants to be a corrupt fascist dictator and asks pollsters what issue he can exploit. They tell him 'immigrants'. Then con man trump demagogues about immigrants and gets these fools to accept it as their 'number on issue'.

I would accept that answer except for the fact the Biden deported way more people during a time when most conservatives felt the same way about immigrants as they do now. Trump certainly exacerbated fear that was already there, but that doesn't excuse Americans (right wing or not) not knowing enough history to reject said manipulations and having no shame when it comes to their border hypocrisy.

 

[Peacenik]

The "legalized corruption" was legislated by Democrats in Congress.

And by Republicans. It's both parties who are in on it.

It's hopeless to entertain the idea of a private corporation unlegilstating their power away. Especially when there's little chance of any other party rising up. However, I'd submit that even talking about the health of our country in terms of electoral politics is indeed "short-sighted". The long term game is enlightening so much of the mass about superior economic models that the system is left no choice but to concede demands. The plan should be to usher in a new cultural Zeitgeist of Socialist awareness. That was step one for the Bolsheviks against their Czar. That was step one for the Chinese peasants against their landlords. It was the first step for the Cubans against the Batista dictatorship. There has to be a level of cohesion amongst the proletariat. It can start with Marxists feeding, educating, disciplining, and building up the poor. But the people have eyes and ears. Even the conservative religious proletariat, notorious for their obliviousness, will come to acknowledge the tremendous power and potential, not of leftism, not of Democracy, not of progressivism, not even of mere Socialism, but pure and unadulterated Marxist-Leninist Communism. On that day, voting will just be a formality to revolution; not the cause of it.

Communism has never worked on a large scale. It never produced a high standard of living. Even the Chinese have had to mix communism with capitalism to improve their society. And it has largely been because they are feeding off the USA. If the USA system of capitalism were to co0llapse, China would soon follow. The problem with communism is that people want freedom and a wide variety of products and choices in how they choose to improve and enjoy their own lives. Everyone can't be the same. That leads to a lack of interest in improvement, a lethargy.

Our best economic model has to be a mixture of Capitalism and Socialism, well regulated by a strong democratic government. The USA got to be what it is today after our beginning 250 years ago because of our individual freedom. It is extremely unlikely that Americans are going to embrace communism. It is routinely down-talked. Americans embrace freedom.

The problem is our government has been legally corrupted. Both major parties are complicit. Our nation's founders had a good idea, but greed has found every chink in the armor and created more. That's the problem we have to deal with. We need our Constitution to function better. It needs to be modified to make it stronger and more resilient against big money corruption. Trump has shown the weaknesses of our system. That provides a roadmap for what needs to be strengthened to protect our democracy.

 

[B Cool]

And by Republicans. It's both parties who are in on it.



Communism has never worked on a large scale. It never produced a high standard of living. Even the Chinese have had to mix communism with capitalism to improve their society. And it has largely been because they are feeding off the USA. If the USA system of capitalism were to co0llapse, China would soon follow. The problem with communism is that people want freedom and a wide variety of products and choices in how they choose to improve and enjoy their own lives. Everyone can't be the same. That leads to a lack of interest in improvement, a lethargy.

Our best economic model has to be a mixture of Capitalism and Socialism, well regulated by a strong democratic government. The USA got to be what it is today after our beginning 250 years ago because of our individual freedom. It is extremely unlikely that Americans are going to embrace communism. It is routinely down-talked. Americans embrace freedom.

The problem is our government has been legally corrupted. Both major parties are complicit. Our nation's founders had a good idea, but greed has found every chink in the armor and created more. That's the problem we have to deal with. We need our Constitution to function better. It needs to be modified to make it stronger and more resilient against big money corruption. Trump has shown the weaknesses of our system. That provides a roadmap for what needs to be strengthened to protect our democracy.

You claim to support Socialism but deny it's ever worked? That's exactly what a conservative who's never looked into the matter would say. That's absurd. Name a Communist country with a higher homeless population than the United States of America. Communist countries do better for their people sanctioned than America does "free". It's actually pathetic. Now I say Communism, but that's just the highest stage of Socialism. Right now we're living in the time of empire: the highest stage of Capitalism. You fight Capitalism with Communism/Socialism. There is no secret third option that makes everyone feel better. The proletariat gets on board with Marxism, or they're sacrificed to the Capitalist machine. Do you call the Chinese and Russian economies mixed but that's because you expect Communist to live in communal mud huts and dirty farms? What would be the point of that? That's not Communism. Communism has always been described as development through economic growth and large-scale industrial production from the second Marx and Engels wrote their manifesto. The more efficient production becomes, the more surplus profit can be fed back into society. What you call a "mixed economy" is just a Socialist economy working towards full-on Communism. Nobody's seen full-on Communism yet, because we live in a violent Capitalist empire. Saying China isn't Communist is akin to complaining that North Korea isn't peaceful because they own nuclear weapons. Who forced them to get nuclear weapons in the first place? If you admit both major parties are complicit, then you must acknowledge that these parties don't function to go against their own interest. The exists to serve Capital and cannot be reformed.

 

[Peacenik]

You claim to support Socialism but deny it's ever worked? That's exactly what a conservative who's never looked into the matter would say. That's absurd. Name a Communist country with a higher homeless population than the United States of America. Communist countries do better for their people sanctioned than America does "free". It's actually pathetic. Now I say Communism, but that's just the highest stage of Socialism. Right now we're living in the time of empire: the highest stage of Capitalism. You fight Capitalism with Communism/Socialism. There is no secret third option that makes everyone feel better. The proletariat gets on board with Marxism, or they're sacrificed to the Capitalist machine. Do you call the Chinese and Russian economies mixed but that's because you expect Communist to live in communal mud huts and dirty farms? What would be the point of that? That's not Communism. Communism has always been described as development through economic growth and large-scale industrial production from the second Marx and Engels wrote their manifesto. The more efficient production becomes, the more surplus profit can be fed back into society. What you call a "mixed economy" is just a Socialist economy working towards full-on Communism. Nobody's seen full-on Communism yet, because we live in a violent Capitalist empire. Saying China isn't Communist is akin to complaining that North Korea isn't peaceful because they own nuclear weapons. Who forced them to get nuclear weapons in the first place? If you admit both major parties are complicit, then you must acknowledge that these parties don't function to go against their own interest. The exists to serve Capital and cannot be reformed.

I have no interest in fighting capitalism. Capitalism is a wonderful engine of ingenuity. It simply needs to be properly regulated or it runs away and blows up.

I like private ownership of property. When property is communally owned, it is maintained in so-so condition. It is understood it gets the minimum of upkeep. When property is privately owned and the owner takes pride in it, it approaches perfection. Very pleasant and impressive. People who take pride in their possessions put in the extra effort to make them gleam. It's like the difference between a privately owned and cherished vehicle and a rental car. One is waxed and gleaming. The other got a rudimentary clean-up job. Don't look too close. You'll find the dirt. The well-cared for privately owned vehicle lasts a lifetime. The rental car has a short rough life and then it gets sold off before it gets too beat up.

A well cared-for private car gets garaged. It is preserved and it shows. A fleet of rental vehicles sits out in the elements and goes downhill.

I don't want to drive a rental vehicle. I want my own car and I want to take good care of it.

I don't want communism. I want capitalism.

Sure, our capitalism has been corrupted by greed. That is fixable. We simply have to put the effort in. There is no need to give up on capitalism. Giving up on freedom is not our best solution.

 

[Craig234]

I have no interest in fighting capitalism. Capitalism is a wonderful engine of ingenuity. It simply needs to be properly regulated or it runs away and blows up.

I've long said "Capitalism" shouldn't be discussed without distinguishing "Democratic Capitalism" or "Oligarchic Capitalism". Different things.

 

[StillBallin75]

I'm frankly just astounded. I always have been. This country was founded on an invasion of Europeans who despised being told to stop. The last thing these founders of The United States wanted to hear was "that's far enough!" or "you can't go there!" They didn't give a shit. They came by the hundreds of thousands with their slaves. Manifest Destiny and might makes right yadda yadda whoopdee whoop.
Fast forward and the descendants of these colonizers (their descendants, descendant-passing-people, and a few sad sell-out blacks and Mexicans who earnestly desire to be on the winning team) are constantly bitching and bemoaning the crossing of sacred invisible lines better known to the public as "borders".
I just don't get it. Where do white people get the. . . I don't know the right word. The nerve? The stones? The gall? I feel like if I use those words, they'll just take it as a compliment. It's not a compliment. You guys look goofy as all Christ to everyone, okay? You're white. You're not from here. You have no right to complain about borders on a land established through theft, genocide, and treaty breaking. I don't know what kind of happy-go-lucky-Disney-land version of Cowboy-colonizing they taught you in school but that just isn't how it happened. It was brutal. Women and children were raped and killed by the millions. There's no excuse except that you and I incidentally exist in this timeline. That's far from sufficient for justifying the murder and displacement of millions.
But that brings me to my final point: the **** am I going to do about it? I could sit here and beg you to see reason and advocate for central planning instead of decentralized coin-flipping-and-spin-the-bottle-economics. But adults should know inherently that that doesn't seem correct. Especially when the results are the hellish status quo you see before you all around. A proper adult with integrity would read about Communism before dismissing it outright. But we live among walking, driving, flying, and shooting children. Children do what their told. Children never question authority and the ones the authorities can use are rewarded handsomely. To keep people from coming together, you just have to convince them that some are better than others. It's quite simple.
So I suppose Western colonists can just go on dreaming their little dreams of being native to the land they conquer. It's right-wing drivel so it'll get the same hyper focus as left-wing culture war drivel. I'm just curious as to what they actually teach you people in school about this country's founding. Was is television, music, or social media that made you obsessed with borders and so comfortable complaining about them? Is your Spanish crappy and you refuse to learn? Do really think Capitalists are dishing out the sweetest gigs to the Mexicans? Or are you somehow self-aware and just born this intensely and inexplicably shameless? Again. The ****ing stones, men! Wow!

The word your looking for is "audacity."

Or "caucasity." To found an entire nation state upon the backs of native genocide and chattel slavery (whilst claiming they stand for freedom, liberty, and justice for all), then to turn around and cry about everyone who is ACTUALLY fighting for those things while pretending to still be the victim.

The word your looking for is audacity. And entitlement.

 

[Peacenik]

I've long said "Capitalism" shouldn't be discussed without distinguishing "Democratic Capitalism" or "Oligarchic Capitalism". Different things.

Our best economy has to be capitalism mixed with socialism in the correct balance.

Socialism for needs. Capitalism for wants.

A modern Bill of Rights would include the right to:

A home, basic transportation, a job or a livable income, health care, a dignified retirement, K-16 education, internet, a phone.

It's OK to tax everyone to pay for these things according to their ability to pay. The rich should pay more. The USA should take in more than it spends until the debt is paid off. Then taxes can be reduced (won't be paying interest) as long as we have no debt. When more things are needed, taxes must be raised to pay for it.

Government needs to set up public options for all of the above modern rights.

The above would make America truly great again.

 

[B Cool]

The word your looking for is "audacity."

Or "caucasity." To found an entire nation state upon the backs of native genocide and chattel slavery (whilst claiming they stand for freedom, liberty, and justice for all), then to turn around and cry about everyone who is ACTUALLY fighting for those things while pretending to still be the victim.

The word your looking for is audacity. And entitlement.

Yup. Audacity. That's the word. Thank you!

 

[B Cool]

I have no interest in fighting capitalism. Capitalism is a wonderful engine of ingenuity. It simply needs to be properly regulated or it runs away and blows up.

I like private ownership of property. When property is communally owned, it is maintained in so-so condition. It is understood it gets the minimum of upkeep. When property is privately owned and the owner takes pride in it, it approaches perfection. Very pleasant and impressive. People who take pride in their possessions put in the extra effort to make them gleam. It's like the difference between a privately owned and cherished vehicle and a rental car. One is waxed and gleaming. The other got a rudimentary clean-up job. Don't look too close. You'll find the dirt. The well-cared for privately owned vehicle lasts a lifetime. The rental car has a short rough life and then it gets sold off before it gets too beat up.

A well cared-for private car gets garaged. It is preserved and it shows. A fleet of rental vehicles sits out in the elements and goes downhill.

I don't want to drive a rental vehicle. I want my own car and I want to take good care of it.

I don't want communism. I want capitalism.

Sure, our capitalism has been corrupted by greed. That is fixable. We simply have to put the effort in. There is no need to give up on capitalism. Giving up on freedom is not our best solution.

Your entire premise is flawed. Capitalism doesn't equal freedom. There's no way to avoid the boom bust cycles of Capitalism either. And Capitalism functioning on your honor system is a joke of a fantasy. You can't stop monopolies from forming. You can't stop Kleptocracies for growing. How? Asking pretty please. Passing laws? You liberals are so unread, you don't even understand where corruption comes from. It comes from extreme imbalances in money and power. It's designed to fail for the masses while the bankers and Wall Street speculators always profit. I'm not "giving up" on Capitalism. Capitalism is my enemy; the bane of my existence and always has been. Did you give up on Hitler and Al-Queda, or do those things just suck? I don't want to read that "give up" crap again. It's exhausting and makes no sense. It's what every right winger and liberal say because they're so brainwashed and refuse to research Marxism for themselves. I know everything about everyone else's ideology but they can't be bothered to learn the first thing about mine. Doesn't stop people from acting like experts though. Be better.

 

[B Cool]

I've long said "Capitalism" shouldn't be discussed without distinguishing "Democratic Capitalism" or "Oligarchic Capitalism". Different things.

Capitalism sucks full stop. You can't put makeup on a pig and call it a baddie. Why it so hard to find English-speakers who knows anything about history or economics? Oh that's right, Westerners are indoctrinated with psychotic inconsistent nonsense from birth. I forget.

 

[Craig234]

Capitalism sucks full stop. You can't put makeup on a pig and call it a baddie. Why it so hard to find English-speakers who knows anything about history or economics? Oh that's right, Westerners are indoctrinated with psychotic inconsistent nonsense from birth. I forget.

You made an idiotic post.

 

[B Cool]

You made an idiotic post.

Debunk it, Westerner. I get these five word replies all ****ing day and nobody says shit. Nobody debunks shit. They just voice disapproval. The most substantive engagement I've gotten is from liberals who don't seem to understand that their economic policies are right wing. But at least they try.

 

[B Cool]

Make a post deserving a response.

That's what I told you to do. What am I, glue? And you're rubber? Are we ten? Christ.

 

[Craig234]

That's what I told you to do. What am I, glue? And you're rubber? Are we ten? Christ.

You make idiotic posts, you're lucky to get a reply saying that.

 

[B Cool]

You make idiotic posts, you're lucky to get a reply saying that.

I don't feel lucky to be engaging with you at all. It feels like a chore I'll learn nothing from. But I persist in the hopes you'll actually challenge me like a man one day. You know, on an actual point of some sort instead of just hating for the sake of hating? It's a long shot. I know.