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Indian court says marital rape is not really rape

Rainman05

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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/13/w...says-forced-marital-sex-is-not-rape.html?_r=0

Last October, a Delhi woman filed a complaint against a man she accused of drugging her, abducting her and taking her to Ghaziabad, Uttar Pradesh, to register their marriage. Afterward, she told the court, he raped her.

The judge in the case wrote that there was “no clinching or convincing evidence on record to show that the accused had administered any stupefying substance.”
It is not the first time an order by the presiding judge, Virender Bhat, has stoked controversy. In an order issued last October, Mr. Bhat’s comments about girls engaging in premarital sex invited criticism from many quarters.

“Girls are morally and socially bound not to indulge in sexual intercourse before a proper marriage, and if they do so, it would be to their peril and they cannot be heard crying later that it was rape,” he wrote in the judgment.
So she was forced into a marriage by her abductor and then she was sexually abused and the court saw no problem with either the forced marriage and the rape.


This is why you shouldn't go to India. Honestly. Especially as a woman, don't go to India. The huge amount of news about rapes coming from India is staggering and especially since foreign women are targetted by indians. Only last year did they start taking rape seriously in India and started treating it as a proper crime when there was that severe backlash in international papers about the gang rape epidemics. And even now, rapists in India are getting off waaaay to easy. No civilized country lets these sort of people off the hook the way India does.

Don't go to India. It's a **** place anyway, you're not missing out on anything.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/13/w...says-forced-marital-sex-is-not-rape.html?_r=0

So she was forced into a marriage by her abductor and then she was sexually abused and the court saw no problem with either the forced marriage and the rape.

This is why you shouldn't go to India. Honestly. Especially as a woman, don't go to India. The huge amount of news about rapes coming from India is staggering and especially since foreign women are targetted by indians. Only last year did they start taking rape seriously in India and started treating it as a proper crime when there was that severe backlash in international papers about the gang rape epidemics. And even now, rapists in India are getting off waaaay to easy. No civilized country lets these sort of people off the hook the way India does.

Don't go to India. It's a **** place anyway, you're not missing out on anything.

Freinds tell me that India is an exciting place to visit. Rich art, lively philosophy, extremely bright scientists.
 
I agree with you, Rainman, **** India. Too many raped tourists and too third world for my taste. Not to mention it's the home of King Cobra! No thanks!
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/13/w...says-forced-marital-sex-is-not-rape.html?_r=0



So she was forced into a marriage by her abductor and then she was sexually abused and the court saw no problem with either the forced marriage and the rape.


This is why you shouldn't go to India. Honestly. Especially as a woman, don't go to India. The huge amount of news about rapes coming from India is staggering and especially since foreign women are targetted by indians. Only last year did they start taking rape seriously in India and started treating it as a proper crime when there was that severe backlash in international papers about the gang rape epidemics. And even now, rapists in India are getting off waaaay to easy. No civilized country lets these sort of people off the hook the way India does.

Don't go to India. It's a **** place anyway, you're not missing out on anything.

Well I would not toot our superior horn too fast... while appalling it is not that long ago that this was the attitude in the west as well. Hell you come from Romania and should know that.
 
I agree with you, Rainman, **** India. Too many raped tourists and too third world for my taste. Not to mention it's the home of King Cobra! No thanks!

Too many? Considering the size of the country and the amount of people, then well no.

As for too third world, well that one I will give you!

But hey, if you want a taste of India, but dont want to travel there then come to Spain. Here you can have a nice holiday with great beaches good food, and if you want to see some 3rd world buildings and smells, then you can go on a day trip to Gibraltar. Just go off the tourist road and you shall see wonders that I have only seen in India and in the movies... And when you have done that, then you can get some culture in Spain :)
 
Well I would not toot our superior horn too fast... while appalling it is not that long ago that this was the attitude in the west as well. Hell you come from Romania and should know that.

It's endemic in indian society, this abuse of women. and it's not like it was the same in the west. This isn't a "there is no such thing as a better culture, we're all the same but just different" because that argument doesn't exist. Western society is better. way better.

It's even more appalling when you consider that in the 1970s and 1980s, India was considered what is today China.

And what does this suppose to mean?
 
In Afghanistan, men sell their wives and female children for herds of goats. It's good to be civilized.
 
Freinds tell me that India is an exciting place to visit. Rich art, lively philosophy, extremely bright scientists.

...plus a caste system; cows are sacred and can't be killed= never steak for dinner; home of the King cobra; earths largest slums; and I can't stand curry... Think I'll pass.
 
I liked India. Granted, I only saw like a fraction of a percent of it.

Not to take away from this problem they're having. They obviously have to sort it the **** out, but I wouldn't write off their culture completely.
 
It's endemic in indian society, this abuse of women. and it's not like it was the same in the west.

Go back 50 to 100 years.. and then yes.

This isn't a "there is no such thing as a better culture, we're all the same but just different" because that argument doesn't exist. Western society is better. way better.

More evolved maybe, hardly better. We still have and allow cults that abuse children, sweet shops and do not in any way hit down hard enough on the exploitation of women and children in human trafficking.

It's even more appalling when you consider that in the 1970s and 1980s, India was considered what is today China.

India has not changed that much. It is an ancient society with various traditions in various areas that seem alien to us and barbaric. It takes many generations to change attitudes and you can not do it by just banning it.

Look at honour crimes in India... huge amount of "kitchen fires" killing thousands of women each year, and the police does nothing because local cops dont think it is wrong.

And what does this suppose to mean?

You do know how Ceaușescu treated women right? And children?

Like it or not, in the west there are plenty of boneheads that live in the past and want women barefoot and pregnant, and many of those boneheads are rather powerful. While we have evolved, often kicking and screaming, there are still religious and traditional issues all across West that are similar in its barbaric nature towards women as what is happening in India.

A good example is rape. Rape today is highly reported compared to say 30 years ago. During the 1960s and 70s, rape against women was considered "they had it coming" because of what company they kept or how the dressed. Even today that attitude is active in certain conservative sides of society. Rapes were not reported much in the past (relatively speaking), because the police often did not care or thought it was the womans own fault. It takes time for such changes... generations.

India is far from perfect, but it is hardly the only place where this crap is going on. Just here in Spain a few weeks ago, a Brit was arrested for holding 9 women against their will in his personal harem.. he was rich and powerful, so people protected him until one of the women escaped and altered authorities.
 
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If you are a single female traveling alone in India, you are going to be molested or raped...even if you have a male escort. If you must go, stay with a large group. I was there once...never again.
 
Go back 50 to 100 years.. and then yes.

More evolved maybe, hardly better. We still have and allow cults that abuse children, sweet shops and do not in any way hit down hard enough on the exploitation of women and children in human trafficking.

India has not changed that much. It is an ancient society with various traditions in various areas that seem alien to us and barbaric. It takes many generations to change attitudes and you can not do it by just banning it.

Look at honour crimes in India... huge amount of "kitchen fires" killing thousands of women each year, and the police does nothing because local cops dont think it is wrong.

We punish the people who do these things and we punish them severely. Until last year, punishment for rapists in India was a joke.

And we do try everything to stop human trafficking. There are arrests and crackdowns on white slavery networks consistently.

You do know how Ceaușescu treated women right? And children?

Like it or not, in the west there are plenty of boneheads that live in the past and want women barefoot and pregnant, and many of those boneheads are rather powerful. While we have evolved, often kicking and screaming, there are still religious and traditional issues all across West that are similar in its barbaric nature towards women as what is happening in India.

A good example is rape. Rape today is highly reported compared to say 30 years ago. During the 1960s and 70s, rape against women was considered "they had it coming" because of what company they kept or how the dressed. Even today that attitude is active in certain conservative sides of society. Rapes were not reported much in the past (relatively speaking), because the police often did not care or thought it was the womans own fault. It takes time for such changes... generations.

India is far from perfect, but it is hardly the only place where this crap is going on. Just here in Spain a few weeks ago, a Brit was arrested for holding 9 women against their will in his personal harem.. he was rich and powerful, so people protected him until one of the women escaped and altered authorities.

...
If we are to talk about Ceasescu it will take a long discussion. I don't think you can attribute communism doctrines and policies to something condoned or encouraged by the people. You don't get to pick and choose your leader and the ruling party in a totalitarian regime. But since the communist regime fell, Romania did a lot of progress and a lot of catching up to the free countries of the west in human rights and especially womens' rights.

But let me tell you something, back then there was a lot of police brutality and it happened to discourage people from doing all sorts of crimes or things that were considered undesirable or at least, if you did it once, you wouldn't do it again. It was not uncommon for the police to lock you for a day or two if you were being particularly... lets say disruptive. I know that they did that to a lot of drunks for instance but also to men who were bothering women unjustly and got reported. This is especially more true in smaller towns and cities. People got locked up and came out one or two days out of the police station and they wouldn't touch a drink or cause a disturbance a long time after that... call them model citizens if you will, with some broken ribs...

Ofc, that's one side... the other side is the immense corruption and abuses of power on people who did nothing wrong but just happened to piss off someone in the police force.


As to the example of the british guy. Look, the difference is that this behavior is looked down upon. Was there any public outrage to the fact he got convicted? Do people think that the behavior and actions he took are desirable? He was a twisted individual whose actions are looked down upon by society and whom, when caught, will be struck down by the law. Which is not what is happening in India. In India people get away unless there is a huge public outrage and a lot of people see no problem with their behavior as long as it doesn't happen to one of their acquaintances.

And another crucial difference is that while there are people who would much rather see womens' rights turn back a century, there are lot of people who don't support that. And while we are debating how we want the society of our future to look like and how both men and women fit in that society, we are at least pioneering there. We are exploring these dynamics in our world. there isn't a predermined plan that we can follow to make sure everyone is happy and it all turns well. Like the whole thing about letting women in the army. And each country has its own varying policies. Some allow them to serve in front line combat, others not at all, others just in some branches of the army. Some countries have implemented these policies a long time ago, others more recently. If my memory is not failing me, Norway has allowed women to serve in the army since before WW2 and France is the first country to allow women to serve in all branches of the army after WW2. I could be mixing things up a bit but I am sure I'm not far from the truth.
 
We punish the people who do these things and we punish them severely. Until last year, punishment for rapists in India was a joke.

Well that is debatable, because to punish them it is required that the crime is reported and investigated... and that is the problem.

And we do try everything to stop human trafficking. There are arrests and crackdowns on white slavery networks consistently.

Not really.
 
Well that is debatable, because to punish them it is required that the crime is reported and investigated... and that is the problem.
Yes, that is part of the problem. The other one is that if you have a justice system that clearly, consistently, treats rapists and rape like a sort of minor offense, there is a great incentive to not go forward with an accusation. And that's what is done in India. It was until last year, treated as sort of a joke. It still is as this case clearly shows.
Not really.

Ofc we do. There are trafficking networks shut down consistently. There were just last year that big news that they shut down that whole trafficking network that went all the way from romania to spain.
 
Yes, that is part of the problem. The other one is that if you have a justice system that clearly, consistently, treats rapists and rape like a sort of minor offense, there is a great incentive to not go forward with an accusation. And that's what is done in India. It was until last year, treated as sort of a joke. It still is as this case clearly shows.

Yes but my point is that getting the case to court is often just as hard in the West as it is in India.. the Indian's have an extra problem in that parts of their judicial system dont see it as a problem, but that does not change the fact that in the reporting and taking serious aspect by law enforcement is bad everywhere.

Ofc we do. There are trafficking networks shut down consistently. There were just last year that big news that they shut down that whole trafficking network that went all the way from romania to spain.

And 5 more networks grow out of it.
 
Just go off the tourist road and you shall see wonders that I have only seen in India and in the movies... And when you have done that, then you can get some culture in Spain :)

Out of curiosity, could you give some examples?
 
I'm curious what you've seen off the beaten path in Spain that you've only otherwise seen in India and the movies. India and Spain are not places that one would think have a lot in common, aside from the normal, you know, human stuff like "there are farmers."

Is Gibraltar really that horrible? The image I conjure up (never having been, mind you) is an overcrowded island with its own weird financial system that allows that industry to thrive but not a third world slum. It's a British territory no? What kind of horrors are you getting at?
 
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