In an autocracy, guess who comes after your guns...? It's not the Libs.

[Slavister]

The/?your $hit puppet Biden has always been a stinking imperialist warmonger too! REALITY.

You can call him what you want. But one thing he was not is a Traitor to this country wanting to destroy its democracy.

 

[natman]

Trump said take the guns w/o due process.

You think going through due process is the same as not going through due process.

Not sure what to tell you about that.

You may think that an ex parte hearing where the first time the accused finds out about it is when the SWAT team kicks his door in at 4 am is due process. I don't.

Let me make it clear - like many things Trump says, his remark about due process later was wrong. But it was an off the cuff remark that came to nothing. You seem to think that that's an indicator that Trump is a greater threat to gun rights than the Democrats, who have made confiscation part of their platform and are doing everything in their power - and many things that aren't - to make exercising one's Second Amendment rights as difficult as possible.

Trump's not the one to worry about on this issue.

 

[element94]

Lmao...yep...it's the party that wants people to have guns that will confiscate them. Gawd bless the stupid...post...it's the post that is stupid...just to be clear.

Nervous?

 

[ataraxia]

How would Trump gain absolute power in a democratic republic? Walk me through it.

By the system of checks and balances on his power not working the way they are supposed to. Already the courts and congress have shown they are either unwilling, or too afraid to check his power abuses.

 

[Opossum]

What would stop a dictator?

That's not an answer, but I'll pose the same question at your new comment. How is Trump going to become a dictator? Describe the mechanism that he will be able use to make that happen.

 

[Michael Cole]

No confusion on my part. As we've established, neither party has the right to confiscate guns.

So let's see who's more likely to do it nevertheless.

Trump made an offhand remark 6 years ago in the context of dealing with individuals who posed a credible threat to themselves or others. It had nothing to do with AR15s or gun confiscation in general. Cooler heads prevailed and nothing came of it.

On the other hand, the Democrats have made infringing on the Second Amendment a cornerstone of their platform. Many of them (Feinstein, Beto O'Rourke, Governor Lamont of Connecticut) have openly called for confiscation. California has already made previously grandfathered magazines illegal (found unconstitutional). Confiscation with compensation is an item in Biden's 2020 campaign.



Balancing Trump's 6 year old off hand remark vs the fact that the Democrats are actually doing it as we speak, it's an easy call. The Democrats.

For all practical purposes, firearms are "outlawed" in North Korea and Japan, both with gun rates at 0.30 per 100 people.

Forget Trump. The reality is that guns are "taken" by both authoritarians and democratic nations.

Gun Ownership by Country 2024

 

[Josie]

@thinkingoutloud when he starts confiscating AR-15s from every American, will you agree with his actions?

@thinkingoutloud -- still curious of your answer here.

 

[natman]

For all practical purposes, firearms are "outlawed" in North Korea and Japan, both with gun rates at 0.30 per 100 people.

Forget Trump. The reality is that guns are "taken" by both authoritarians and democratic nations.

Gun Ownership by Country 2024

Taking the guns is pretty much a required step in making the transition from democratic to authoritarian nation.

 

[Michael Cole]

Taking the guns is pretty much a required step in making the transition from democratic to authoritarian nation.

In degrees, yes. I gave two extremes. As well, taking the guns does not lead to authoritarian governments, which was my point.

The link has a lot of data. Some of it is surprising, but in general, the gun rates vary widely as do the forms of government. You can find free countries with a lot of guns, unfree countries with a lot of guns, free countries with few guns and unfree countries with few guns.

Gun Ownership by Country 2024

The map gives a reasonable interpretation. The geographical correlations are interesting. Yemen is the only country with a rate similar to the US, and the two forms of government couldn't be more different.

 

[sanman]

It's a Uniparty

 

[natman]

In degrees, yes. I gave two extremes. As well, taking the guns does not lead to authoritarian governments, which was my point.

Taking guns may not always lead to an authoritarian government, but it's a major step in that direction. Especially when it's done in violation of the Constitution and the Supreme Court.

 

[mrjurrs]

That's not an answer, but I'll pose the same question at your new comment. How is Trump going to become a dictator? Describe the mechanism that he will be able use to make that happen.

I would suggest you start with the process that Viktor Orban, (4/88's recent guest) used in Hungary.

 

[Michael Cole]

Taking guns may not always lead to an authoritarian government, but it's a major step in that direction. Especially when it's done in violation of the Constitution and the Supreme Court.

That's not the point. My point is that there is little correlation between freedom and gun ownership. Authoritarians don't abide by the law. Free nations like the UK, Japan and Australia do. Guns can be restricted without fear of an authoritarian takeover.

 

[RF667799]

That's not the point. My point is that there is little correlation between freedom and gun ownership. Authoritarians don't abide by the law. Free nations like the UK, Japan and Australia do. Guns can be restricted without fear of an authoritarian takeover.

Authoritarians are big on making laws. It's just that the laws are meant to be used to their own ends, and not observed by themselves.

Authoritarianism is a sliding scale. All governments include some aspects. The UK, Japan, and Australia are certainly more authoritarian than the US in some aspects.

 

[Michael Cole]

Authoritarians are big on making laws. It's just that the laws are meant to be used to their own ends, and not observed by themselves.

Authoritarianism is a sliding scale. All governments include some aspects. The UK, Japan, and Australia are certainly more authoritarian than the US in some aspects.

Agreed, but that still evades the point. Those countries are not sliding into authoritarianism and are not in danger of doing so.

 

[RF667799]

Agreed, but that still evades the point. Those countries are not sliding into authoritarianism and are not in danger of doing so.

If you agree, you must agree that they have slid further than the US. At what point does a government become something we can characterize as a for real authoritarian government? Myself, I acknowledge extreme examples exist that we could likely agree on, but I'm unsure of a stark line where non-authoritarian becomes authoritarian.

 

[Michael Cole]

If you agree, you must agree that they have slid further than the US. At what point does a government become something we can characterize as a for real authoritarian government? Myself, I acknowledge extreme examples exist that we could likely agree on, but I'm unsure of a stark line where non-authoritarian becomes authoritarian.

No, I don't think gun ownership defines freedom. Outside the US, Yemen has the most guns per capita. Yemen is not a free country. But specifically, free nations have high standards of living, fair elections, functioning institutions which revolve around the rule of law. The free world has economic superiority.

Hungary may be a good example of a moving line. Guns are not outlawed but have become more difficult to own. Most would classify Orban as authoritarian based on Western European standards.

 

[RF667799]

No, I don't think gun ownership defines freedom. Outside the US, Yemen has the most guns per capita. Yemen is not a free country. But specifically, free nations have high standards of living, fair elections, functioning institutions which revolve around the rule of law. The free world has economic superiority.

Hungary may be a good example of a moving line. Guns are not outlawed but have become more difficult to own. Most would classify Orban as authoritarian based on Western European standards.

I didn't say it was definitive, but surely you agree it is a factor along that path?

 

[Michael Cole]

I didn't say it was definitive, but surely you agree it is a factor along that path?

It can be but the data isn't clear. That's my point. I posted the link upthread. The odds do suggest what you claim. For every free nation without guns there may be five authoritarian nations without guns, but I don't think we can determine if a direct, measurable correlation exists.

 

[RF667799]

It can be but the data isn't clear. That's my point. I posted the link upthread. The odds do suggest what you claim. For every free nation without guns there may be five authoritarian nations without guns, but I don't think we can determine if a direct, measurable correlation exists.

Whether privately owned firearms can help much in the event of a government "crossing the line" is circumstantial.

But at the very least, they can be an inconvenient factor that would-be tyrants ignore at their peril.

 

[Opossum]

I would suggest you start with the process that Viktor Orban, (4/88's recent guest) used in Hungary.

How does that apply to the US in 2024?

 

[natman]

That's not the point. My point is that there is little correlation between freedom and gun ownership.

In the US, gun ownership is an indicator of freedom.

Authoritarians don't abide by the law. ..............Guns can be restricted without fear of an authoritarian takeover.

Restriction of guns in violation of the Constitution and the Supreme Court is an authoritarian act.

 

[mrjurrs]

How does that apply to the US in 2024?

Do you investigate anything?
Hungary was democratic. It isn't now.

 

[Opossum]

Do you investigate anything?
Hungary was democratic. It isn't now.

I'm still waiting on you to describe how Trump would do any of the things you claimed. You've failed every single time. The reason is because you know you're posts are silly but you don't want to admit it.

 

[RF667799]

We're in danger of a tyranny taking over! Quick! Take all the guns so as to not anger the tyrants!

(An actual argument submitted by a poster here, who said armed resistance to KKK nightriders would just make them more angry.)