Immigration is NOT Owed

[sanman]

No country - including the United States - owes others the right to immigrate into it. This is a ridiculous idea which Left-wing Thought Police have sought to impose on everyone. There's no more of an obligation for any nation to do this than there is for a person to invite others into their own home. Just as an individual has the right to decide who if any they will admit into their home, likewise any nation has the right to decide who if any they will admit into it.

I'm the child of immigrants from Asia, and I appreciate that the opportunity for my parents to immigrate to the United States was given. But in no way do I feel that the USA has any obligation to admit immigrants.

One can argue about what advantages immigration may give, but no advantage should be turned into an obligation. Hey, it's advantageous to get a driver's license, it's advantageous to go to university, but there shouldn't be any law requiring you to. Likewise, it's generous of someone to donate blood to the Red Cross, but there shouldn't be any law forcing you to.

The Left have initially sought to portray immigration as compassionate, generous, advantageous - but if you turn down their praise of compassion, generosity, or advantageousness, then they get nasty and try to accuse you of xenophobia, and make immigration sound obligatory. It should never be obligatory for a nation to be forced to bring in immigrants. The very idea of this is a violation of national sovereignty and sovereign choice.

The Left like to style themselves as a bunch of altruistic generous people - but the reality is that a lot of people campaign in support of immigration for very selfish reasons of ethnic parochialism and economic advantage for themselves - almost nobody immigrates from a rich country to a poorer one - not really anything particularly noble in that. This is like me telling you to all donate to my retirement fund, and calling this an act of charity fund-raising. Self-interest isn't charity or altruism, and should not be passed off as such.

We all have our own lives to live, and we shouldn't be held hostage to a Left that grandiosely and disingenuously invokes noble pretexts for their own selfish ends. Everybody likes to dress up their self-interest as something noble. Immigration advocates are no exception to this.

 

[Mycroft]

No country - including the United States - owes others the right to immigrate into it. This is a ridiculous idea which Left-wing Thought Police have sought to impose on everyone. There's no more of an obligation for any nation to do this than there is for a person to invite others into their own home. Just as an individual has the right to decide who if any they will admit into their home, likewise any nation has the right to decide who if any they will admit into it.

I'm the child of immigrants from Asia, and I appreciate that the opportunity for my parents to immigrate to the United States was given. But in no way do I feel that the USA has any obligation to admit immigrants.

One can argue about what advantages immigration may give, but no advantage should be turned into an obligation. Hey, it's advantageous to get a driver's license, it's advantageous to go to university, but there shouldn't be any law requiring you to. Likewise, it's generous of someone to donate blood to the Red Cross, but there shouldn't be any law forcing you to.

The Left have initially sought to portray immigration as compassionate, generous, advantageous - but if you turn down their praise of compassion, generosity, or advantageousness, then they get nasty and try to accuse you of xenophobia, and make immigration sound obligatory. It should never be obligatory for a nation to be forced to bring in immigrants. The very idea of this is a violation of national sovereignty and sovereign choice.

The Left like to style themselves as a bunch of altruistic generous people - but the reality is that a lot of people campaign in support of immigration for very selfish reasons of ethnic parochialism and economic advantage for themselves - almost nobody immigrates from a rich country to a poorer one - not really anything particularly noble in that. This is like me telling you to all donate to my retirement fund, and calling this an act of charity fund-raising. Self-interest isn't charity or altruism, and should not be passed off as such.

We all have our own lives to live, and we shouldn't be held hostage to a Left that grandiosely and disingenuously invokes noble pretexts for their own selfish ends. Everybody likes to dress up their self-interest as something noble. Immigration advocates are no exception to this.

While you are absolutely correct, you won't get any response from the left on this issue. They are not interested in anyone being correct...but, rather, in what they can force people to do.

 

[Kobie]

No country - including the United States - owes others the right to immigrate into it.

Who claimed they did?

While you are absolutely correct, you won't get any response from the left on this issue. They are not interested in anyone being correct...but, rather, in what they can force people to do.

Ah, more of the usual "This Is What 'The Left' Really Thinks!" hackery.

 

[sanman]

Who claimed they did?

The Left always make nasty charges of "intolerance", "racism", "xenophobia", etc when anyone doesn't toe their line on immigration.

Ah, more of the usual "This Is What 'The Left' Really Thinks!" hackery.

This is what the Left demonstrate all the time.

 

[Kobie]

The Left always make nasty charges of "intolerance", "racism", "xenophobia", etc when anyone doesn't toe their line on immigration.

So no specific examples, just general blathering about "the left" and whatever it is you've convinced yourself "the left" believes.

I've seen plenty of pro-immigration arguments from "the left;" I've never once seen anyone claim that we owe it to anyone. Show me something that supports your claim.

This is what the Left demonstrate all the time.

See above.

 

[Mycroft]

Who claimed they did?



Ah, more of the usual "This Is What 'The Left' Really Thinks!" hackery.

Their actions speak for themselves, but here are the words from a couple of their supporters:

In 2010, MSNBC’s Chris Matthews said that he didn’t think Democrats wanted to stop illegal immigration.

On Tuesday’s Hardball, the host went even further saying that Democrats “believe in illegal immigration” and this is why they “don’t really believe in border enforcement” (video follows with transcript and commentary):

Chris Matthews: Democrats ?Believe In Illegal Immigration?

 

[Kobie]

Their actions speak for themselves, but here are the words from a couple of their supporters:

Well, that obviously settles that. :roll:

 

[Mycroft]

Well, that obviously settles that. :roll:

Since you have no cogent rebuttal, yes...it does.

 

[Kobie]

Since you have no cogent rebuttal, yes...it does.

So because Chris Matthews claims it, that makes it fact? I thought you righties hated Chris Matthews because Obama made his leg tingle. Which is it?

 

[Mycroft]

So because Chris Matthews claims it, that makes it fact? I thought you righties hated Chris Matthews because Obama made his leg tingle. Which is it?

Do you dispute what Matthews...or his guest...have said?

That's what matters...not whether I like him or if his leg tingles.

 

[Kobie]

Do you dispute what Matthews...or his guest...have said?

That's what matters...not whether I like him or if his leg tingles.

Chris Matthews gave his opinion. That's all. I'm free to agree or disagree with it.

I disagree with it.

 

[Mycroft]

Chris Matthews gave his opinion. That's all. I'm free to agree or disagree with it.

I disagree with it.

shrug...

Okay, but you asked for cites...and I gave one to you. The fact that you disagree doesn't change the fact that I provided what you asked for.

 

[Hari Seldon]

So because Chris Matthews claims it, that makes it fact? I thought you righties hated Chris Matthews because Obama made his leg tingle. Which is it?

Seems reasonable to me, Chris Mathews says something in 2010 so it must be true.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

Chris Matthews gave his opinion. That's all. I'm free to agree or disagree with it.

I disagree with it.

One need to look no further than President Obama's actions on illegal immigration. He doesn't like it so out comes the magic pen.

 

[Jetboogieman]

I think the key is not that immigration is owed.

It's why it would be denied in any given instance.

In the case of the Syrians that need our help... I feel a rather extremist xenophobia has tapped the mainstream spinal cord.

 

[Kobie]

One need to look no further than President Obama's actions on illegal immigration. He doesn't like it so out comes the magic pen.

So President Obama is "Democrats"?

 

[truthatallcost]

I think the key is not that immigration is owed.

It's why it would be denied in any given instance.

In the case of the Syrians that need our help... I feel a rather extremist xenophobia has tapped the mainstream spinal cord.

Or maybe an unhealthy amount of xenophilia has blinded your rationality on this subject.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Or maybe an unhealthy amount of xenophilia has blinded your rationality on this subject.

That is one of the most meaningless things anyone has ever responded to me with.

 

[truthatallcost]

The Left always make nasty charges of "intolerance", "racism", "xenophobia", etc when anyone doesn't toe their line on immigration.

The left only has 2 strategies for rebutting the factual arguments of the right:
1. Call the opposition mean.
2. When that fails, call the opposition crazy.

When those 2 fail, the four letter words come out as they regress back to 6th grade.

 

[sanman]

The left only has 2 strategies for rebutting the factual arguments of the right:
1. Call the opposition mean.
2. When that fails, call the opposition crazy.

When those 2 fail, the four letter words come out as they regress back to 6th grade.

Exactly, reason and logic are absolutely not their strengths, and they're not in touch with the real world. All they know how to do is engage in hollow posturing.

 

[matchlight]

So because Chris Matthews claims it, that makes it fact? I thought you righties hated Chris Matthews because Obama made his leg tingle. Which is it?

I suspect Mathews is one of Limpwrist's butt boys. And your feeble efforts to deny the claims every rational adult in this country knows full well leftists are constantly making about immigration only show your desperation. You'd be more convincing if you tried to argue that the sun revolves around the earth.

 

[Ancient Herald]

I am in agreement with the OP, immigration is not owed.

BUT, if you believe in basic human rights and helping people, then you really shouldn't turn them away.

just don't be stupid about it.

Because sometimes there is more going on behind the scenes that we civilians are not aware of, and this may actually be a strategy of war to destabilize and enemy and drain resources.

 

[matchlight]

Their actions speak for themselves, but here are the words from a couple of their supporters:

Pseudo-liberals want to do all they can to harm the U.S., because although millions of them choose to take up space here, they resent and disdain most things American. They know illegal immigration has done enormous harm to this country, so naturally they want to see more of it. These specimens imagine they can constantly run America down and make excuses for its enemies, and yet be viewed as patriotic. That in itself says a lot about how bright most of them are.

 

[sanman]

In the biological world, plants evolved as producers and then other organisms evolved to eat them. In the world of nations, industrialized nations evolved as producers, and now a class of people has evolved to prey upon them. No predator can be reasoned with - it's useless to resort to arguments to dissuade them, because the desire to prey doesn't operate on reason or logic.

 

[Mycroft]

I am in agreement with the OP, immigration is not owed.

BUT, if you believe in basic human rights and helping people, then you really shouldn't turn them away.

just don't be stupid about it.

Thing is, even the most rabid of anti-illegal immigration people...Tancredo...never proposed that we "turn them away". He, like Trump, just wanted them to follow the law and they want us to be smart about who and how many we let in legally. In other words, NOBODY is talking about keeping everyone out. So let's just stop right now with the hyperbole and focus on what has actually been said.

Because sometimes there is more going on behind the scenes that we civilians are not aware of, and this may actually be a strategy of war to destabilize and enemy and drain resources.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here...but I suspect it belongs in the CT forum.