Immigrants Make Up 50% of FBI's Most Wanted List

[truthatallcost]

Doing my own research, I discovered this; 50% of the fugitives on the FBI's Most Wanted List are in fact immigrants.

How can this be true? Haven't we all been told ad nauseum, that 'immigrants are less likely to commit serious crime than Americans'??

We know that there are 43 million foreign born people residing in the USA. Which leaves 282 million people who were born here. So why is 50% of the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List comprised of foreign born people??

For the record, here are the foreign born men on the list, and their countries of origin:

#1 Most Wanted- Alexis Flores, Honduras.
#4 Most Wanted- Fidel Urbina, Mexico.
#7 Most Wanted- Eduardo Ravelo- Mexico.
#9 Most Wanted- Semion Mogilevich, Russia.
#10 Most Wanted- Jose Manuel Garcia Guevara, Mexico.


50 Most Wanted Criminals in the United States - Criminal Justice Degree Hub

 

[Kal'Stang]

5 out of millions. I'm against illegal immigration just as much as the next anti-illegal alien person. But what you're attempting to do here is use statistics in a way that equals a false equivalency fallacy. Otherwise known as a logical fallacy.

 

[Crovax]

5 out of millions. I'm against illegal immigration just as much as the next anti-illegal alien person. But what you're attempting to do here is use statistics in a way that equals a false equivalency fallacy. Otherwise known as a logical fallacy.

And what you have done is called the Fallacy Fallacy

 

[Chomsky]

Doing my own research, I discovered this; 50% of the fugitives on the FBI's Most Wanted List are in fact immigrants.

How can this be true? Haven't we all been told ad nauseum, that 'immigrants are less likely to commit serious crime than Americans'??

We know that there are 43 million foreign born people residing in the USA. Which leaves 282 million people who were born here. So why is 50% of the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List comprised of foreign born people??

For the record, here are the foreign born men on the list, and their countries of origin:

#1 Most Wanted- Alexis Flores, Honduras.
#4 Most Wanted- Fidel Urbina, Mexico.
#7 Most Wanted- Eduardo Ravelo- Mexico.
#9 Most Wanted- Semion Mogilevich, Russia.
#10 Most Wanted- Jose Manuel Garcia Guevara, Mexico.


50 Most Wanted Criminals in the United States - Criminal Justice Degree Hub

Your conclusion is in error.

I suspect you've found foreign immigrants may be more likely to attempt to flee.

Your detective work shows no correlation to crime, but rather to one being on the lam.

Though I would agree that fleeing prosecution is a serious thing in its own right, your observations tell us nothing about an immigrant's propensity to commit serious crime.

 

[Chomsky]

5 out of millions. I'm against illegal immigration just as much as the next anti-illegal alien person. But what you're attempting to do here is use statistics in a way that equals a false equivalency fallacy. Otherwise known as a logical fallacy.

Exactly.

His conclusion is erroneous. He's (incorrectly) conflating the wanted (flight) list, with the distribution of criminal behaviour throughout society - which I pointed-out to him above.

 

[Chagos]

And what you have done is called the Fallacy Fallacy

Looks like you need to read up on that a bit more.

 

[Crovax]

Looks like you need to read up on that a bit more.

I read it perfectly fine, and just claiming that someone is using a logical fallacy without supporting it with facts of your own is the textbook definition of the fallacy fallacy

 

[Chagos]

I read it perfectly fine, and just claiming that someone is using a logical fallacy without supporting it with facts of your own is the textbook definition of the fallacy fallacy

As I suggested, read it some more.

If necessary, repeatedly.

While you're at it, read up on false equivalence (fallacy of inconsistency).

Then try, if you still can (and dare), to demonstrate how anyone is compelled to prove that apples are in fact apples and oranges in fact oranges, in order to be believed that comparing the two by way of equivalence is idiotic.

Should you however decide that apples and oranges cannot be applied to the OP, then there's no helping you. And no point in discussing logic with you either.

 

[Crovax]

As I suggested, read it some more.

If necessary, repeatedly.

While you're at it, read up on false equivalence (fallacy of inconsistency).

Then try, if you still can (and dare), to demonstrate how anyone is compelled to prove that apples are in fact apples and oranges in fact oranges, in order to be believed that comparing the two by way of equivalence is idiotic.

Should you however decide that apples and oranges cannot be applied to the OP, then there's no helping you. And no point in discussing logic with you either.

I suggest you read it the first time since it's clear that you haven't.

And let me be clear I am not saying Kal's argument is wrong. In fact I know that data and it is correct however his argument is lazy and flawed and that's all I was pointing out.

 

[Chagos]

I suggest you read it the first time since it's clear that you haven't.

And let me be clear I am not saying Kal's argument is wrong. In fact I know that data and it is correct however his argument is lazy and flawed and that's all I was pointing out.

Fair enough.

 

[truthatallcost]

5 out of millions. I'm against illegal immigration just as much as the next anti-illegal alien person. But what you're attempting to do here is use statistics in a way that equals a false equivalency fallacy. Otherwise known as a logical fallacy.

I also don't believe the talking points rhetoric, of 'immigrants commit less crime than Americans'. When I looked into it, it appeared to be a myth that was started by an immigration rights attorney, and then repeated by the DNC's uneducated supporters until it became a 'fact'.

 

[truthatallcost]

Your conclusion is in error.

I suspect you've found foreign immigrants may be more likely to attempt to flee.

Your detective work shows no correlation to crime, but rather to one being on the lam.

Though I would agree that fleeing prosecution is a serious thing in its own right, your observations tell us nothing about an immigrant's propensity to commit serious crime.

Illegal immigrants make up about 3% of the population of the U.S. So how do you explain this:

The U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Sentencing Commission reported that as of 2014, illegal immigrants were convicted and sentenced for over 13 percent all crimes committed in the U.S.

The truth about crime, illegal immigrants and sanctuary cities | TheHill

What's your response to the fact 75% of all criminal defendants who were convicted and sentenced for federal drug offenses were illegal immigrants?

 

[Chomsky]

Illegal immigrants make up about 3% of the population of the U.S. So how do you explain this:





What's your response to the fact 75% of all criminal defendants who were convicted and sentenced for federal drug offenses were illegal immigrants?

If you want to debate the above or start a thread on other aspects of crime and immigration, that's your prerogative.

But I was pointing-out your OP and the topic of this thread is gravely flawed.

 

[Kal'Stang]

I suggest you read it the first time since it's clear that you haven't.

And let me be clear I am not saying Kal's argument is wrong. In fact I know that data and it is correct however his argument is lazy and flawed and that's all I was pointing out.

Yes, I made a lazy argument. IE: One which I didn't support with links etc etc. Regardless, as you admit, my statement was correct (which by definition cannot be flawed), and you got that. Which means I didn't really need to go into a whole dissertation to prove my point. Point was made, that's all that I cared about. Plus the post was made at 1:48AM, was a bit tired.

 

[Kal'Stang]

I also don't believe the talking points rhetoric, of 'immigrants commit less crime than Americans'. When I looked into it, it appeared to be a myth that was started by an immigration rights attorney, and then repeated by the DNC's uneducated supporters until it became a 'fact'.

Technically every person in the US illegally has committed a crime. :shrug: But that talking point that illegals commit less crime is usually talking about rape, murder etc etc etc. Actual serious crimes. Relatively speaking of course. And that statement is true. Particularly when you add in legal immigrants which pro-illegal folks often do in their "studies". So arguing against that point is ...well...pointless. If you take anything and narrow it down enough it can support an argument. And if you expand it enough it can support a completely different argument. And that is usually done because people support what it is that they are arguing for. There is often a bit of truth to both sides of an argument. Just depends on ones POV.

 

[truthatallcost]

If you want to debate the above or start a thread on other aspects of crime and immigration, that's your prerogative.

But I was pointing-out your OP and the topic of this thread is gravely flawed.

To which I provided an article which states that illegal immigrants (3% of the pop.) committed 13% of the crime in 2014, thus adding to my OP's assertion that the popular image of illegal immigrants as non-lawbreakers is not honest.

The fact remains that half of the FBI's 10 Most Wanted are immigrants. You can dismiss my points here by pointing to inept governmental statistics, but in the end, the government has a shoddy record of providing the public with accurate data on this subject. Case in point, they've been saying that there are 11 million illegals here since 2004. Do you believe that number to be accurate, too?

 

[truthatallcost]

Technically every person in the US illegally has committed a crime. :shrug: But that talking point that illegals commit less crime is usually talking about rape, murder etc etc etc. Actual serious crimes. Relatively speaking of course. And that statement is true. Particularly when you add in legal immigrants which pro-illegal folks often do in their "studies". So arguing against that point is ...well...pointless. If you take anything and narrow it down enough it can support an argument. And if you expand it enough it can support a completely different argument. And that is usually done because people support what it is that they are arguing for. There is often a bit of truth to both sides of an argument. Just depends on ones POV.

I believe that the government is afraid of providing the public with truthful data about the effects of illegal immigration on society, simply stated. Is this something that you agree with or disagree with?

 

[truthatallcost]

Another point I'd like to make, is that police aren't allowed to check a person's legal status when they're arrested. Most illegals have fraudulent birth certificates and Social Security cards, which can fool employers, landlords, & the DMV. So how exactly do we know what the true numbers are for crimes committed by illegal immigrants?