I'm Starting To Like The Whackjob

[Fishking]

You just make my case again

No...you should go back to what you quoted. If you read that as hate you have some social miscue issues to work on.

 

[katzgar]

No...you should go back to what you quoted. If you read that as hate you have some social miscue issues to work on.

And yet again you make my case for me

 

[Fishking]

Of course Trump always has a high opinion of himself. Many of us, including me, do not have a high opinion of Trump.

As for Trump nagging important NATO allies to contribute more to NATO, the POTUS could help Americans and the World by addressing far more important issues.

Why does the U.S. have to address or help the World? We have enough issues in our own country that we can't overcome, like paying our own bills. So I think having NATO allies actually have a military that is worth something, which would enable use to spend less on ours, would be a big benefit.

You don't see an issue here? I mean, they complain about Trump being wishy-washy on NATO support because they know that NATO is code for U.S. and that most of them contribute nothing of import. Then they complain about being called out for not spending their own $$ on defense. They just want to continue the status quo of them leaving their national defense to the U.S. while we foot the bill and they can have their robust social programs.

 

[Fishking]

And yet again you make my case for me

Lol...at least you have tricked yourself to thinking you're correct. Your case is non-existent.

 

[ataraxia]

True dat! I believe that Donald Trump's first thought/priority is the welfare of the "American taxpayer!" What a load of crapola!

Penny-wise and pound-foolish. But you'll figure that out for yourself soon enough.

 

[Rexedgar]

Penny-wise and pound-foolish. But you'll figure that out for yourself soon enough.

Since you like quotes:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pay...&hl=en-us&client=safari#imgrc=8R-tt5IzBm_J9M:

Or there is the seven "P's" if you like.

 

[ataraxia]

Why does the U.S. have to address or help the World? We have enough issues in our own country that we can't overcome, like paying our own bills. So I think having NATO allies actually have a military that is worth something, which would enable use to spend less on ours, would be a big benefit.

You don't see an issue here? I mean, they complain about Trump being wishy-washy on NATO support because they know that NATO is code for U.S. and that most of them contribute nothing of import. Then they complain about being called out for not spending their own $$ on defense. They just want to continue the status quo of them leaving their national defense to the U.S. while we foot the bill and they can have their robust social programs.

Every community needs some law and order. The global village right now has no sheriff or mayor. The US is just the biggest guy in the neighborhood right now, and has expressed some interest in maintaining a sense of law and order in the village, and some sense of fairness or justice (but still certainly very hit-and-miss, but hey, it's the best the world has right now). We may have trouble paying some of our own bills. But we are by far in the best position of maintaining some semblance of justice, fairness, and therefore peace and stability. If the US decides to shirk its duties, it will not be left alone. It will just be a matter of time before the ensuing mayhem will hit home. The US does not live in a vacuum. It lives in a small community of nations. The problems that will ensue will be huge, and probably much harder and more expensive to fix, than if we continued to do some preventive maintenance.

The only people who don't see this are people who are too shortsighted. Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

 

[katzgar]

Lol...at least you have tricked yourself to thinking you're correct. Your case is non-existent.

and yet again, thanks

 

[katzgar]

Why does the U.S. have to address or help the World? We have enough issues in our own country that we can't overcome, like paying our own bills. So I think having NATO allies actually have a military that is worth something, which would enable use to spend less on ours, would be a big benefit.

You don't see an issue here? I mean, they complain about Trump being wishy-washy on NATO support because they know that NATO is code for U.S. and that most of them contribute nothing of import. Then they complain about being called out for not spending their own $$ on defense. They just want to continue the status quo of them leaving their national defense to the U.S. while we foot the bill and they can have their robust social programs.

the answer is painfully obvious. when we have a military presence in europe or asia it speaks to our own defense. you are mistaken to think that even one single penny spent on NATO is anything more than our own defense. this is geopolitics 101.

 

[Fishking]

Every community needs some law and order. The global village right now has no sheriff or mayor. The US is just the biggest guy in the neighborhood right now, and has expressed some interest in maintaining a sense of law and order in the village, and some sense of fairness or justice (but still certainly very hit-and-miss, but hey, it's the best the world has right now). We may have trouble paying some of our own bills. But we are by far in the best position of maintaining some semblance of justice, fairness, and therefore peace and stability. If the US decides to shirk its duties, it will not be left alone. It will just be a matter of time before the ensuing mayhem will hit home. The US does not live in a vacuum. It lives in a small community of nations. The problems that will ensue will be huge, and probably much harder and more expensive to fix, than if we continued to do some preventive maintenance.

Why is it the US's duty to provide for the national security of nations around the world while many of them don't do their part to contribute? Isn't it first the responsibility of a nation to defend itself? Why do our young have to shed their blood and sweat on behalf of a nation that won't do it for themselves? That's ridiculous.

The only people who don't see this are people who are too shortsighted. Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

There is no viable military threat to the U.S. None. No one is even close. The biggest threat to the U.S. are internal threats. Like Rome, we are more threatened by over-extension and collapsing under our own weight an mismanagement. That has almost always been the case of empire throughout history.

 

[Fishking]

the answer is painfully obvious. when we have a military presence in europe or asia it speaks to our own defense. you are mistaken to think that even one single penny spent on NATO is anything more than our own defense. this is geopolitics 101.

How does it help our own defense to bankrupt ourselves and be over-extended?

 

[Trippy Trekker]

Why does the U.S. have to address or help the World? We have enough issues in our own country that we can't overcome, like paying our own bills. So I think having NATO allies actually have a military that is worth something, which would enable use to spend less on ours, would be a big benefit.

You don't see an issue here? I mean, they complain about Trump being wishy-washy on NATO support because they know that NATO is code for U.S. and that most of them contribute nothing of import. Then they complain about being called out for not spending their own $$ on defense. They just want to continue the status quo of them leaving their national defense to the U.S. while we foot the bill and they can have their robust social programs.

I doubt the 2% of GDP figure truly represents a fair contribution. The strongest entities in the alliance tend to dictate the terms. Who wants to kowtow to a bully? Many of these Heads of State consider Trump an Orange Brutus. I favor more diplomatic deft.

 

[ataraxia]

Why is it the US's duty to provide for the national security of nations around the world while many of them don't do their part to contribute? Isn't it first the responsibility of a nation to defend itself? Why do our young have to shed their blood and sweat on behalf of a nation that won't do it for themselves? That's ridiculous.

Nobody was in the mood, after two world wars, to leave Germany or Japan completely free to pursue their own defense on their own anymore.

There is no viable military threat to the U.S. None. No one is even close. The biggest threat to the U.S. are internal threats. Like Rome, we are more threatened by over-extension and collapsing under our own weight an mismanagement. That has almost always been the case of empire throughout history.

The US pursued an isolationist policy in the War of 1812, WWI, WWII, and 9/11. Eventually, the problems got so big it was forced into the fight, having to deal with problems much bigger than if it had just fixed them earlier.

 

[Geoist]

Of course the leftist media has been horrified by the maniac in our White House. His tireless agenda to save foreign wasted American taxpayer’s money is proof of his insanity.

If he wanted to save American taxpayers on foreign spending then he would not have proposed increasing the already bloated defense spending by 10% over the next year.

 

[katzgar]

How does it help our own defense to bankrupt ourselves and be over-extended?

A military presence in Europe and Asia is hardly bankrupting ourselves

 

[Fishking]

I doubt the 2% of GDP figure truly represents a fair contribution. The strongest entities in the alliance tend to dictate the terms. Who wants to kowtow to a bully? Many of these Heads of State consider Trump an Orange Brutus. I favor more diplomatic deft.

Doing it by % is as fair as you can get it. It's exactly proportional. They can consider him whatever they want but they have shirked their duties and the deft that you're calling for doesn't work. Ultimately, they are on the wrong so being butthurt over being called out is on them. If they don't like it then they should remedy the matter.

There's always the option of just pulling out of it completely and letting them flap in the wind.

 

[sear]

"Doing it by % is as fair as you can get it. It's exactly proportional." Fk #41

Fair or not, it's the standard each NATO member nation has agreed to.

BUT !!

a) It's a guideline, not a mandate. And

b) it's "fair" as in % GDP, but perhaps not so in terms of per capita median income, or other perhaps equally "fair" funding standards.

Why should NATO member nations with higher standards of living not pay more per capita? That's the way our IRS works. So why not NATO?

"There's always the option of just pulling out of it completely and letting them flap in the wind." Fk

I've wished they had.

BUT !!

I deduce the reason they don't is they know if Putin swooped in and pulled a Crimea on any former NATO ally, NATO in general, and perhaps the U.S. in particular would likely get stuck with the mop-up.
And that's rarely elegant.

 

[TheHammer]

I suppose it's easy to like him when you suck in his lies and don't understand what's really going on

Oh! I understand what's going on. The leftwing media and the Democrat party allies are hell bent on bringing this duly elected President down. I expect them to cut their own throats before it's all over.

 

[TheHammer]

The OP reads like a Borowitz Report.

Countless people worldwide, including me, have already made up our mind about President Trump. The words deplorable, insane, whack job and arrogant only begin to describe the less appealing aspects of Trump.

We can count on a massive Worldwide Celebration when Trump vacates the White House. Meanwhile, we soldier on in our efforts to oust him. Dump the Chump named Trump!

A pure sample of Democrats system of a "Peaceful Transition Of Power," huh? How pathetic!

 

[TheHammer]

And we will

in the same way that Tea Partiers and Trumpsters supported Obama.

PS: how's that Mike Dubke dude doing? :mrgreen:

Where were the so called Tea Party's National media blitz and violent protest to bring down Obama? Never happened, huh?

 

[TheHammer]

They are jumping mad in the EU just now. They are thinking about how to get back at us with the most unusual and often bizarr ideas and stratagems.

I think it's great that the nutjob pissed off the arrogant, socialist European freeloaders. Let them fend for themselves for a change. America bailed their asses out of war twice and rebuilt the whole damned continent only to be stiffed for NATO dues.

 

[Trippy Trekker]

Doing it by % is as fair as you can get it. It's exactly proportional. They can consider him whatever they want but they have shirked their duties and the deft that you're calling for doesn't work. Ultimately, they are on the wrong so being butthurt over being called out is on them. If they don't like it then they should remedy the matter.

There's always the option of just pulling out of it completely and letting them flap in the wind.

All grins! We disagree on what makes for fairness. I hope you know better than to think we would pull out. Hey, if supporting Trump's strategy helps keep you motivated, bully for you! I want Trump out of the White House, the sooner the better! In time, we find out whose POV prevails.

 

[sear]

"Oh! I understand what's going on. The leftwing media and the Democrat party allies are hell bent on bringing this duly elected President down. I expect them to cut their own throats before it's all over." TH #43

At the rate we're going, Trump will beat them to it.

The Russia connection alone may be more detrimental to the Trump administration than any partisan ammo the Dems. might have had.

His political foes didn't Dick Nixon. Nixon took care of that on his own. & Trump's cover-up of Russia / Putin-gate may already have begun, with Trump's rapid-fire (pun noted) cabinet turn-over.

 

[TheHammer]

As has every president for decades now.

A begging job in some back room as to not upset the socialist freeloaders. Trump put it to them publically and scored points with me and I'm not even a Trump fan. I think he's an idiot with guts. He speaks like a moron, (not Presidential). He's a super narcissist. He's a lousy politician. He's winning me over mostly because the leftist crybabies hate him.

They're not dues.

They all made an agreement at the onset of NATO that every member would contribute/invest at least 3% of their GDP to their National Defense. "DUES" are simply short/slang for what they all agreed to.

 

[TheHammer]

Trump is more friendly towards the Muslim country than towards his Western European allies....Oh the Irony


And the European countries do in fact pay their fair share in NATO. The United States pays more because the U.S. is a much larger country than that of any European country.

The United States pays/invest more than all of the rest of the members of NATO combined for the defense of Europe. If the European member are paying their fair share, how come Obama says they aren't?