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"I'm shocked! Shocked!"

Torus34

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It seems that a goodly number of air minutes and print pages are devoted these days to which politician stated what falsehood or did a flip-flop on a previous position. By and large, it's a waste of time to do this. Politicians, we would do well to remember, need have but one characteristic [Ed.: other than a minimum age for certain positions,] and that is the ability to be elected and/or re-elected.

That's all. The ability to be elected. No requirement for honesty, ethics, morality or any of that stuff. No ability or background in government. Even basic literacy isn't required.

So why are we shocked [Wink, wink, nudge, nudge,] by these people who, supposedly, we entrust with the duty of seeing to our collective good? Possibly because it makes for gossip. In fact, it apparently powers a whole gossip industry.

"Election, n. A process by which those without knowledge of the matters at hand choose one of their number to handle said matters.

"Position, n. An ideological point on the political map. To take a position is to plant both feet firmly on an undefined location. The basic map coordinates are ego and the political zeitgeist.

"A politician, one fine day
Said, with a lofty air:
'I'm standing on my principles.
I'm sure you'll find them fair.'

"And then he turned and walked away.
I checked the floor with care;
Examined where he just had stood,
But there was nothing there."

Quoted from A Modern Dictionary, Fragmentary Press, 2016, Chelm, IA

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing [Ed.: No matter what the politicians say.]
 
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Luckyone

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It seems that a goodly number of air minutes and print pages are devoted these days to which politician stated what falsehood or did a flip-flop on a previous position. By and large, it's a waste of time to do this. Politicians, we would do well to remember, need have but one characteristic [Ed.: other than a minimum age for certain positions,] and that is the ability to be elected and/or re-elected.

That's all. The ability to be elected. No requirement for honesty, ethics, morality or any of that stuff. No ability or background in government. Even basic literacy isn't required.

So why are we shocked [Wink, wink, nudge, nudge,] by these people who, supposedly, we entrust with the duty of seeing to our collective good? Possibly because it makes for gossip. In fact, it apparently powers a whole gossip industry.

"Election, n. A process by which those without knowledge of the matters at hand choose one of their number to handle said matters.

"Position, n. An ideological point on the political map. To take a position is to plant both feet firmly on an undefined location. The basic map coordinates are ego and the political zeitgeist.

"A politician, one fine day
Said, with a lofty air:
'I'm standing on my principles.
I'm sure you'll find them fair.'

"And then he turned and walked away.
I checked the floor with care;
Examined where he just had stood,
But there was nothing there."

Quoted from A Modern Dictionary, Fragmentary Press, 2016, Chelm, IA

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing [Ed.: No matter what the politicians say.]
So, you believe electability is the important thing, eh? the only thing that matters, right?

Well, tell me the reasons people get elected in the first place? Could those reasons include representing an ideal, a principle, a goal the community wants to achieve? If that person does a flip-flop, does that mean he no longer is representing the people that voted for him but is representing only his own desires?

I believe that believing in who represents you is the top priority. If you voted for that person to represent Justice and you find out he is open to changing if he gets paid (corrupted) by a someone that wants to protect the guilty (perhaps someone that did damage to you or your family), you would want that man out of office, wouldn't you? You would want to know if he is corruptible or not, wouldn't you? You would want others to bring out the facts, right?

What a ridiculous OP.
 

KLATTU

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So, you believe electability is the important thing, eh? the only thing that matters, right?

Doesn't matter what the OP thinks, it IS the only thing that matters to politicians. And that's what counts.

As Thomas Sowell brilliantly and famously said" "No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems -- of which getting elected and re-elected are No. 1 and No. 2. Whatever is No. 3 is far behind".

And as KLATTU brilliantly and famously added: " ...and conning people into believing they are acting on high principle"
 

Moderate Right

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It seems that a goodly number of air minutes and print pages are devoted these days to which politician stated what falsehood or did a flip-flop on a previous position. By and large, it's a waste of time to do this. Politicians, we would do well to remember, need have but one characteristic [Ed.: other than a minimum age for certain positions,] and that is the ability to be elected and/or re-elected.

That's all. The ability to be elected. No requirement for honesty, ethics, morality or any of that stuff. No ability or background in government. Even basic literacy isn't required.

So why are we shocked [Wink, wink, nudge, nudge,] by these people who, supposedly, we entrust with the duty of seeing to our collective good? Possibly because it makes for gossip. In fact, it apparently powers a whole gossip industry.

"Election, n. A process by which those without knowledge of the matters at hand choose one of their number to handle said matters.

"Position, n. An ideological point on the political map. To take a position is to plant both feet firmly on an undefined location. The basic map coordinates are ego and the political zeitgeist.

"A politician, one fine day
Said, with a lofty air:
'I'm standing on my principles.
I'm sure you'll find them fair.'

"And then he turned and walked away.
I checked the floor with care;
Examined where he just had stood,
But there was nothing there."

Quoted from A Modern Dictionary, Fragmentary Press, 2016, Chelm, IA

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing [Ed.: No matter what the politicians say.]
The Constitution provides us a blueprint on how things work and that's what we've been doing. We did it in 2016 when there was an opening on the SC, we did it last year when the House impeached Trump and the Senate did not convict, and we're doing it again with another opening on the SC. Whichever party draws the short stick always claims foul.
 

Torus34

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So, you believe electability is the important thing, eh? the only thing that matters, right?

Well, tell me the reasons people get elected in the first place? Could those reasons include representing an ideal, a principle, a goal the community wants to achieve? If that person does a flip-flop, does that mean he no longer is representing the people that voted for him but is representing only his own desires?

I believe that believing in who represents you is the top priority. If you voted for that person to represent Justice and you find out he is open to changing if he gets paid (corrupted) by a someone that wants to protect the guilty (perhaps someone that did damage to you or your family), you would want that man out of office, wouldn't you? You would want to know if he is corruptible or not, wouldn't you? You would want others to bring out the facts, right?

What a ridiculous OP.

Hi!

Thank you for your response!

Elections are a process of selection we like to trace to ancient Athens. We equate it with 'democracy'. In practice, the Athenians used a process of selection by lot more often. In addition, with the exception of positions which truly required specialized knowledge, such as naval warfare, terms in office were limited to a year.

In our present United States of America, the only way one can attain to certain governmental positions is through the process of election. If you cannot win, you do not get the position.* Thus, the statement is, by and large, true.

Once a person is in office, what matters is the people's perception of the politician's performance. Ple4ase note that the word 'perception' was chosen with care. Thanks to creative gerrymandering, there are congressional districts in which election and re-election seem to require little more than waving the appropriate party banner.

There are other factors, true. President of the United States of America Donald Trump stated at one point that he could go out and shoot someone on the street and not lose a vote. If you check his approval/disapproval ratings against those of other presidents, the stability of his rating is remarkable. Something other than actual performance in office may well be in play. I posit that it indicates a group of people within the country who are disenchanted with government in general and find a 'strong man' acceptable.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.

* Ed.: Yeah, yeah. I know there's the occasional appointment. It happens.
 

MaryP

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Doesn't matter what the OP thinks, it IS the only thing that matters to politicians. And that's what counts.

As Thomas Sowell brilliantly and famously said" "No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems -- of which getting elected and re-elected are No. 1 and No. 2. Whatever is No. 3 is far behind".

And as KLATTU brilliantly and famously added: " ...and conning people into believing they are acting on high principle"
Cynical crap. Undermining everyone's faith in their representatives is what Putin dreams of. Sure they want to get re-elected--you can't make the country better if you're not in office. But they want to make the country better and they work hard to bring their ideas to bear..
 

Luckyone

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Hi!

Thank you for your response!

Elections are a process of selection we like to trace to ancient Athens. We equate it with 'democracy'. In practice, the Athenians used a process of selection by lot more often. In addition, with the exception of positions which truly required specialized knowledge, such as naval warfare, terms in office were limited to a year.

In our present United States of America, the only way one can attain to certain governmental positions is through the process of election. If you cannot win, you do not get the position.* Thus, the statement is, by and large, true.

Once a person is in office, what matters is the people's perception of the politician's performance. Ple4ase note that the word 'perception' was chosen with care. Thanks to creative gerrymandering, there are congressional districts in which election and re-election seem to require little more than waving the appropriate party banner.

There are other factors, true. President of the United States of America Donald Trump stated at one point that he could go out and shoot someone on the street and not lose a vote. If you check his approval/disapproval ratings against those of other presidents, the stability of his rating is remarkable. Something other than actual performance in office may well be in play. I posit that it indicates a group of people within the country who are disenchanted with government in general and find a 'strong man' acceptable.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.

* Ed.: Yeah, yeah. I know there's the occasional appointment. It happens.
One big difference to mention in your comparison.

Greek democracy created at Athens was direct, rather than representative: any adult male citizen over the age of 20 could take part, and it was a duty to do so. The officials of the democracy were in part elected by the Assembly and in large part chosen by lottery in a process called sortition.
 

Torus34

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One big difference to mention in your comparison.

Greek democracy created at Athens was direct, rather than representative: any adult male citizen over the age of 20 could take part, and it was a duty to do so. The officials of the democracy were in part elected by the Assembly and in large part chosen by lottery in a process called sortition.

Yup! We both know our history.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
 

Craig234

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Your cynical post is both wrong and harmful. Some politicians are, using a technical term, scum. Others are not. For example, Bernie Sanders is basically nothing like your claim; many others are not as well.

Your 'all politicians are liars' false claim is essentially an attack on democracy itself, arguing that the people cannot elect good representatives, cannot have any good government - we might as well trash our American system and just have a dictator, because all politicians are liars. You're wrong.
 
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