I'm "SAVING" you $1500 a year, Democrat Delusions Run DEEP!

[holbritter]

Fraud and waste is in every company and government agency in the world. Generally speaking people are low lives who don't give a damn.

Well, since it's my tax dollars, I give a damn.

What has been the most surprising part of the job?

I think the most surprising thing for me since I’ve been here is seeing the huge array of things that the MTA workers do, the wide variety of jobs that they hold and dedication and expertise that they have in doing their jobs. Some of those facilities are actually manufacturing plants; because of aging infrastructure, it’s not possible to get many of the parts from original manufacturers. Many have gone out of business so the MTA has to create its own parts sometimes. Seeing what people do is fascinating and surprising.

 

[holbritter]

They were never fully funded by rider fares.

Ok. You didn't say 'fully' previously. And no, they are not. But like I said, they always say the raise in tolls/fares are needed to repair and maintain.

 

[BirdinHand]

Ok. You didn't say 'fully' previously. And no, they are not. But like I said, they always say the raise in tolls/fares are needed to repair and maintain.

Well yeah - infrastructure is expensive to maintain and people don’t like their taxes raised

 

[Trumpetman]

The squirrel was a state gov matter many miles from NYC. Congestion pricing improves quality of life and the safety of city residents. Less congested roads improves response time of emergency vehicles. Parts of the subway system infrastructure are 120 years old and original or close to it. Do more research. The subway agency subsidizes tourists and commuters who buy passes entitling them to bulk rides, up to unlimited during a certain time period. Folks of least means cannot afford these passes and already pay the most of any riders, per trip. Neither riders nor the transit authority can control the age and obsolescence of the system but they must live with it because there is no cheaper alternative. There is the added cost of keeping it running during improvement work.

Modern liberals sound like crazy Bible thumpers from decades ago. You say something to them like "cancer needs treatment" and they just repeat back dogma with zero thought while feeling superior.

Let's just start with one little piece of your dogma. If you can chip that into some pretense of actual critical thought then we can continue. If not you can chant your dogma like a meditation at someone else and enjoy your lack of thought.

You said the subway system infrastructure is 120 years or still original. So at some point they had enough money to build it and they've had 120 years to sort out what figure could be charged to the public be they tourists, residents, rich or poor to sustain it and grow it that entire time.

For some reason, they've never been able to do this. As you note the deferred maintenance, budget problems and ridership revenue all supposedly are a giant sink hole of lack of funds and growing problems. So the ONLY way to fix all of this is to now pay a congestion price by every single car that enters into this particular part of NYC.

These are your numbers. They've had 120 years to find some way to make this all work but it never has worked.

In fact if you do web searches for NYC transit and budget problems you can find stories going back for decades.

So all we have is this pattern of emergency, no money, growing problems and the next bandaid we are certain will all finally fix it.

It has never fixed it. This won't fix it either. I'm sorry but 120 years of failure doesn't mean the person who disagrees with you hasn't done their research. It means you want to claim some level of expertise and authority on a topic where there has been nothing but failure for over a century.

No one should defer to any claimed "expert" in this area who cannot explain their continued failures and how this will somehow change those failures into successes. Instead it just becomes what we've seen in blue cities and states over and over. It is more taxes and regulation to "fix" the prior levels of taxes and regulation and lack of services that all failed.

Hey, do some research, the NYC transit system has failed to maintain, build new infrastructure, update their vehicles and buses, or manage to grow ridership and make their models for public transportation workable and sustainable for DECADES. Anyone who can't see this isn't doing research, they are lucid dreaming.

 

[Trumpetman]

Well yeah - infrastructure is expensive to maintain and people don’t like their taxes raised

So charging everyone who enters a part of the city a congestion fee isn't a tax? Sure sounds and acts like a tax.

 

[Trumpetman]

They aren’t.

Subways aren’t funded by tolls. Buses aren’t funded by fares.

I’m sorry you don’t have a better grasp on how things work.

But that’s NOT how they work. Never has been, never will be.

What part of the word SHOULD do you not understand?

We can wait while you catch up.

 

[BirdinHand]

What part of the word SHOULD do you not understand?

We can wait while you catch up.

When was the last time you set foot in NYC? Ever?

 

[Trumpetman]

Tee Hee.

Americans would HATE Vancouver.

In 1969 the then "hippy" city council voted in a measure to ban all limited access freeways in the city!

So you will spend an average of 45 minutes commuting within the city (daily) and 58 minutes if you live in a sub urb. You will pay about $2.10 per litre for gas, much of which is local taxes. No other reason than our governments love taxes!

The cool part is I can get downdown from where I live in the same time it would take to drive, find & pay for a parking spot if I drove.

I haven't owned a vehicle since I retired 15 years ago

You pay four times the annual average to park and soon you will need a special plate to travel in the densest part of the city. With five new bridges and three big ferries in development

So you are cackling at the suffering of your fellow humans as rendered unto them by their government which does not serve their interests or consider their needs.

That sounds sort of like a sociopath to me.

 

[Trumpetman]

That's completely wrong in every sense.

Some cities have great functioning public transit systems.

But Americans REFUSE to get out of their gas guzzling 4x4,s

I don't know about "congestion pricing"it sounds politicalese to me. I know that a gasoline surcharge and big big parking fees reduce congesting pretty damn fast! My bus is always pretty near full in off hours

So much like the vaccine, yours won't work until I get mine and mine won't work until you get yours.

Maybe it's like communism, it keeps failing but all the people who are doing it just keep doing it wrong.

So the problem with public transportation isn't the people who promise it, run it, finance it or use it but the public itself who bypasses it.

That is a special kind of stupid thinking.

 

[Trumpetman]

When was the last time you set foot in NYC? Ever?

So you want personal details from me to help you understand the word SHOULD?

How about you just go try a dictionary. You can even use one in NYC if that will help.

 

[BirdinHand]

Modern liberals sound like crazy Bible thumpers from decades ago. You say something to them like "cancer needs treatment" and they just repeat back dogma with zero thought while feeling superior.

Let's just start with one little piece of your dogma. If you can chip that into some pretense of actual critical thought then we can continue. If not you can chant your dogma like a meditation at someone else and enjoy your lack of thought.

You said the subway system infrastructure is 120 years or still original. So at some point they had enough money to build it and they've had 120 years to sort out what figure could be charged to the public be they tourists, residents, rich or poor to sustain it and grow it that entire time.

For some reason, they've never been able to do this. As you note the deferred maintenance, budget problems and ridership revenue all supposedly are a giant sink hole of lack of funds and growing problems. So the ONLY way to fix all of this is to now pay a congestion price by every single car that enters into this particular part of NYC.

These are your numbers. They've had 120 years to find some way to make this all work but it never has worked.

In fact if you do web searches for NYC transit and budget problems you can find stories going back for decades.

So all we have is this pattern of emergency, no money, growing problems and the next bandaid we are certain will all finally fix it.

It has never fixed it. This won't fix it either. I'm sorry but 120 years of failure doesn't mean the person who disagrees with you hasn't done their research. It means you want to claim some level of expertise and authority on a topic where there has been nothing but failure for over a century.

No one should defer to any claimed "expert" in this area who cannot explain their continued failures and how this will somehow change those failures into successes. Instead it just becomes what we've seen in blue cities and states over and over. It is more taxes and regulation to "fix" the prior levels of taxes and regulation and lack of services that all failed.

Hey, do some research, the NYC transit system has failed to maintain, build new infrastructure, update their vehicles and buses, or manage to grow ridership and make their models for public transportation workable and sustainable for DECADES. Anyone who can't see this isn't doing research, they are lucid dreaming.

NYC public transit system is world class and the busiest in the western hemisphere. It is the 11th busiest public transit system in the entire world.

Have you ever USED mass transit in NY? It’s incredible and highly reliable and shockingly clean and safe for how many people use it on a daily basis.


As I asked - when was the last time you were in NYC?

 

[BirdinHand]

So you want personal details from me to help you understand the word SHOULD?

How about you just go try a dictionary. You can even use one in NYC if that will help.

No, im just going to guess you have absolutely no experience whatsoever with NYC public transit.

Heck, based on your posts, I would guess you haven’t even been in NYC anytime lately and simply hate everything about it because “city”

 

[Peter]

Better management

Better management can only do so much.
At the end of the day trains and buses deteriorate through use and need spending money on or they just become grotty and people won't want to use them.

 

[Cosmo]

Quick question, how do you suggest we maintain public transportation?

What happened to all the other taxes? NYC already has one of the highest in the USA as far as sales tax and income tax. Hell the State alone has one of the highest, and then NYC tacks on their own income tax. Then there's the property taxes. And the toll was already sky-high to use the bridges and tunnels.

 

[Peter]

We use fares to discourage free ridership; homeless people just walk on.

It really doesn't cover operating expenses let alone capital replacement costs

If we look at the large infrastruture projects the upfront cost is sometimes vast.

Take Crossrail in london for example
It took a decade to build and cost £18.8B.

Even though it's been a huge success having had 350m journeys in just 2 years I doubt it would make money given the cost for using public transport in London is capped at £5.25p per day max no matter how much you use.

Crossrail - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Trumpetman]

NYC public transit system is world class and the busiest in the western hemisphere. It is the 11th busiest public transit system in the entire world.

Have you ever USED mass transit in NY? It’s incredible and highly reliable and shockingly clean and safe for how many people use it on a daily basis.


As I asked - when was the last time you were in NYC?

No, im just going to guess you have absolutely no experience whatsoever with NYC public transit.

Heck, based on your posts, I would guess you haven’t even been in NYC anytime lately and simply hate everything about it because “city”

You can keep attempting to make this about me instead of the thread topic and your confession of failure is noted and accepted.

Now get back to the topic which we can see you want to avoid since it's a loser for you.

 

[BirdinHand]

You can keep attempting to make this about me instead of the thread topic and your confession of failure is noted and accepted.

Now get back to the topic which we can see you want to avoid since it's a loser for you.

The topic seems to be you complaining about a congestion surcharge in NYC.

If you don’t GO to NYC, why do you care?

Just to bitch about NYC seems to be the underlying reason.

I don’t care if a town in Nowehereville MS charges to drive down their Main Street because I won’t be paying that fee because I don’t go there.

So why do you care about a local charge in NYC if you don’t GO there?

 

[Trumpetman]

The topic seems to be you complaining about a congestion surcharge in NYC.

No the topic actually has an article backing it. Go read it and do your research.

If you don’t GO to NYC, why do you care?

Just to bitch about NYC seems to be the underlying reason.

Motive, motive and nothing about the thread topic. Thanks for your confession.

I don’t care if a town in Nowehereville MS charges to drive down their Main Street because I won’t be paying that fee because I don’t go there.

So why do you care about a local charge in NYC if you don’t GO there?

So just to be clear, why are you replying to the topic if per your own confession, the ONLY people who can hold an opinion or care are those who you grant sanction by them claiming they will be effected by it.

Why are you even replying?

 

[BirdinHand]

So just to be clear, why are you replying to the topic if per your own confession, the ONLY people who can hold an opinion or care are those who you grant sanction by them claiming they will be effected by it.

Why are you even replying

I go to NYC several times a year. Nothing about this congestion surcharge phases me because I don’t drive in NYC.

Take a train in, use public transit, take a train back out.

Like millions upon millions of other people.

Heck, my brother sold his car when he lived in Brooklyn because having a car in the city was way more a hassle than it was worth.

My best friend is from NYC - she didn’t even know how to drive until she moved to NJ because she never drove in NY.

Most NYC folks don’t drive, public transit is the preferred way to get around.

I tend to find most people that bitch about big cities don’t actually spend much time in big cities.

 

[Trumpetman]

I go to NYC several times a year. Nothing about this congestion surcharge phases me because I don’t drive in NYC.

Take a train in, use public transit, take a train back out.

So you are part of the tourist class that are subsided and thus the problem.

Like millions upon millions of other people.

So you admit that millions upon millions of people use public transit yet all the fees collected from them can't seem to fund the system. That sounds like failure.

Heck, my brother sold his car when he lived in Brooklyn because having a car in the city was way more a hassle than it was worth.

How much more of a hassle would it be if he had to pay $9 to drive it each way each day due to a congestion fee. Do you not see how this will make many more people take the same steps he took and then the fee and promised revenue from it will fail to arrive?

My best friend is from NYC - she didn’t even know how to drive until she moved to NJ because she never drove in NY.

Most NYC folks don’t drive, public transit is the preferred way to get around.

I tend to find most people that bitch about big cities don’t actually spend much time in big cities.

Your anecdotal observations are important to you I guess.

 

[Econ4every1]

Yet, suggest the government help urban centers with their transportation needs and the caterwauling begins.

Yes, and it's worth noting that taxes collected based on location, people in NYC are more likely to have a higher proportion of their taxes to pay for infrastructure in rural areas, than people in rural areas are likely to have a higher proportion of their taxes fund projects in the city. Which is to say, that many states find the largest portion of their tax base is derived in cities and people in rural areas still find a way to gripe about it.

 

[Econ4every1]

I'm sorry but 120 years of failure

Curious, how do you define failure in this context, exactly?

 

[Chomsky]

Curious, how do you define failure in this context, exactly?

Interesting how those from rural states, the states that suck all our tax dollars, are telling us how we should run our Blue states and cities, the Blue states that pay their bills! Yet, they complain about something that's not their business.

 

[Trumpetman]

Curious, how do you define failure in this context, exactly?

It isn't a self-funded, self sustaining model yet. Also it should be the most easy example of getting a model like that to work. NYC has a small area to service and a large per capita ability for the population to use it and not use alternatives.

If they can't make it work, the no one will.

 

[Econ4every1]

It isn't a self-funded self sustaining model yet.

How does a city 'self fund'? And what does it mean to 'self sustain'?

NYC has a small area to service and a large per capita ability for the population to use it and not use alternatives.

You're not clear on what you mean by any of these terms, and you might think I'm being difficult in asking these questions, but it's not clear what you mean by anything you've said.

For instance, the fact that something is in a small area has nothing to do with it's cost. Take for instance something like roads. Sure, there are only so many roads in Manhattan because it's a small area, but factor in the number of people, and I consulted a few AI models and they agreed there are more cumulative miles driven in Manhattan every day (about 120 miles of roads) than all of Wyoming (which has 33,000 miles of public roads). Thus it's sort of like taking the entire population of Wyoming and having them drive on the same 120 miles of road every single day.

If this has anything to do with revenue, are you aware that most southern states, save TX, take more from the federal government than they give back. Where as NY state gives more than it takes.