I'm Pro-Life: Change My Mind

[Lursa]

I am Pro life change my mind

Why do you make such a demand of me?
You are nothing to me that I should afford you this request.

Yeah...esp since many of us did respond and he's pretty much disappeared. Popped in once today.

Post 85 for mine.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

The reason I am Pro life is because I believe that the termination of an innocent human life is of course horrible and that is a moral stance we all should have, so the question is when does life begin? if we want to determine whether abortions should be illegal or not this is the most important question. Me personally, I believe that life begins at conception which is why I'm pro life. I'm interested in hearing other people's opposing positions.

Morals are completely subjective and, as such, there is no point for debate.

Life begins at conception, but at that point it’s a long ways from being a human. A fact recognized by both our scientific/medical and Constitution based legal system.

The choice of abortion should always be (barring incapacity to speak for herself) the woman’s, not society’s.

 

[screenwriter]

Very few people find abortion to be pleasant. However, the rights of the born do supersede those of the unborn, and just because those born are women does not diminish that fact.

Two people at different places in their unique life cycles. One gets to terminate the life cycle of the other in favor to her lifestyle because the weaker has no voice. It isn't even biology 101 - it's Mrs Mccallister's middle school health class as to when a human lifecycle begins.

 

[year2late]

The reason I am Pro life is because I believe that the termination of an innocent human life is of course horrible and that is a moral stance we all should have, so the question is when does life begin? if we want to determine whether abortions should be illegal or not this is the most important question. Me personally, I believe that life begins at conception which is why I'm pro life. I'm interested in hearing other people's opposing positions.

I am personally against abortion. I do not believe I have that right to decide for another woman.

Here is why. When I became pregnant I was very healthy. I was the right age. I have perfect hips made for childbirth. I had good social support. I had great insurance and access to top of the line medical care. I felt fine. I was still on monthly OB visits. My doctor on that visit saw a subtle sign. He sent me for labs. My kidneys were taking a hit. An early onset of a condition similar to pre-eclampsia. If I had poor access to a regular OB or was sent to an overburdoned clinic....my guess is that my case would have progressed into kidney failure or worse. By the way, abortion was a choice that was presented to me at that time . I chose to take the chance since I had great social and medical resources. I had the luxury to follow all the MD orders. I knew that being off work for so long...I still could pay rent and the rest of my bills. I was off for nearly 6 months. By the way, on top of that, I required a c-section.

Keep in mind...I was a best case scenario for someone who got that disease. The usual person who seeks abortion has poor social resources - crappy access to health care. She may be under employed working paycheck to paycheck....barely making ends meet. If that women was in my position - feeling fine - would she skip an appointment if she felt fine in order to make rent. Yeah. Pretty much yeah.

Because of this....I am FIRMLY entrenched into my pro-choice stance.

If you had crappy access to health care, poor social and financial resources, and were housing insecure - barely making rent each month - how would you feel about maintaining your pregnancy?

I refuse to make the decision for another woman. Pregnancy without proper resources is a problem.

 

[screenwriter]

I am personally against abortion. I do not believe I have that right to decide for another woman.

Here is why. When I became pregnant I was very healthy. I was the right age. I have perfect hips made for childbirth. I had good social support. I had great insurance and access to top of the line medical care. I felt fine. I was still on monthly OB visits. My doctor on that visit saw a subtle sign. He sent me for labs. My kidneys were taking a hit. An early onset of a condition similar to pre-eclampsia. If I had poor access to a regular OB or was sent to an overburdoned clinic....my guess is that my case would have progressed into kidney failure or worse. By the way, abortion was a choice that was presented to me at that time . I chose to take the chance since I had great social and medical resources. I had the luxury to follow all the MD orders. I knew that being off work for so long...I still could pay rent and the rest of my bills. I was off for nearly 6 months. By the way, on top of that, I required a c-section.

Keep in mind...I was a best case scenario for someone who got that disease. The usual person who seeks abortion has poor social resources - crappy access to health care. She may be under employed working paycheck to paycheck....barely making ends meet. If that women was in my position - feeling fine - would she skip an appointment if she felt fine in order to make rent. Yeah. Pretty much yeah.

Because of this....I am FIRMLY entrenched into my pro-choice stance.

If you had crappy access to health care, poor social and financial resources, and were housing insecure - barely making rent each month - how would you feel about maintaining your pregnancy?

I refuse to make the decision for another woman. Pregnancy without proper resources is a problem.

But them so are children and so are aging parents/spouse/family.

 

[year2late]

But them so are children and so are aging parents/spouse/family.

Please clarify.

 

[screenwriter]

Please clarify.

The statement was that pregnancy without proper resources is a problem ..... I pointed out so are children .... So are Aged and infirm family members (parents, spouses, siblings, etc)

 

[year2late]

The statement was that pregnancy without proper resources is a problem ..... I pointed out so are children .... So are Aged and infirm family members (parents, spouses, siblings, etc)

And they can make their own healthcare choices just like any other person . Are you saying a pregnant woman cannot make a health care choice that could impact seriously on her own health?

I am clear that if I did not have resources (personal/social/decent medical) during my pregnancy - likely would be a dialysis patient or dead.

Every person makes decisions based on their own situation.

 

[screenwriter]

And they can make their own healthcare choices just like any other person . Are you saying a pregnant woman cannot make a health care choice that could impact seriously on her own health?

I am clear that if I did not have resources (personal/social/decent medical) during my pregnancy - likely would be a dialysis patient or dead.

Every person makes decisions based on their own situation.

Yes, abortion was indeed once a valid medical procedure that was used as such. Much like reconstructive surgery was created to help those who were deformed or maimed. Abortion and reconstructive (aka plastic) surgery have both been usurped by pop culture to suit a whim instead of being medically necessary. Even a Catholic Hospital will perform a medically necessary abortion - regardless of what fear mongers would have you believe. It is a valid medical procedure when there has to be a choice between one life or the other. Many women have chosen not to abort even though it would mean their life is in danger. You would have fit into that category where it could be called medically necessary. That's not what is happening in the vast majority of cases.

 

[MaryP]

At one point, specifically the 1860s or so, that "plead(ing) a case to the losing side" was making abortion illegal. Abortion was legal and a thriving business until around that period. So this idea of "settled law" is a red herring at best, as abortion itself shows "settled law" means nothing.

I never knew that! I just read a great article on it--thanks!
Surprised, too ! I knew certain plants, such as tansy, were used to cause miscarriage, but I never knew it was legal. And during the Depression it was widespread for economic reasons and not prosecuted.

The surprising history of abortion in the United States | CNN

Abortion was once simply part of life in the United States. Then, for about 100 years, it was illegal. How we got there and got to where we are now may surprise you.

www.cnn.com

 

[btthegreat]

The reason I am Pro life is because I believe that the termination of an innocent human life is of course horrible and that is a moral stance we all should have, so the question is when does life begin? if we want to determine whether abortions should be illegal or not this is the most important question. Me personally, I believe that life begins at conception which is why I'm pro life. I'm interested in hearing other people's opposing positions.

You have heard all these arguments before, sir.
I am trying to remember the last time an adult was persuaded to change his mind by an abortion argument over the internet. Never seen it happen. I never will see it happen either.

 

[year2late]

Yes, abortion was indeed once a valid medical procedure that was used as such. Much like reconstructive surgery was created to help those who were deformed or maimed. Abortion and reconstructive (aka plastic) surgery have both been usurped by pop culture to suit a whim instead of being medically necessary. Even a Catholic Hospital will perform a medically necessary abortion - regardless of what fear mongers would have you believe. It is a valid medical procedure when there has to be a choice between one life or the other. Many women have chosen not to abort even though it would mean their life is in danger. You would have fit into that category where it could be called medically necessary. That's not what is happening in the vast majority of cases.

You have zero clue what you are talking about.

In my case, I had no symptoms my kidneys were being compromised. It was sheer luck that I had a skilled OBGYN and a scheduled montlly pregnancy appointment that my condition was caught early enough. I felt fine at the time. I had nothing that screamed :my kidneys are under attack, get help"
I was a good age and well resourced (socially, financially, medically) If the disease caused by pregnancy continued on, an abortion would have possibly stopped further damage, but damage may end up permanent. As it is, even though it was caught early (by sheer chance)I still have remnents of the hit to my kidneys over 25 years later.

Sorry, but I make the decisions for me. Other people can make medical choices for themselves based on their needs and resources.

 

[MaryP]

An 8 wk embryo. 65% of abortions are performed by 8 weeks.



92.9% are performed by 13 weeks



This is a baby. A preemie, held in Daddy's hands.

 

[screenwriter]

You have zero clue what you are talking about.

In my case, I had no symptoms my kidneys were being compromised. It was sheer luck that I had a skilled OBGYN and a scheduled montlly pregnancy appointment that my condition was caught early enough. I felt fine at the time. I had nothing that screamed :my kidneys are under attack, get help"
I was a good age and well resourced (socially, financially, medically) If the disease caused by pregnancy continued on, an abortion would have possibly stopped further damage, but damage may end up permanent. As it is, even though it was caught early (by sheer chance)I still have remnents of the hit to my kidneys over 25 years later.

Sorry, but I make the decisions for me. Other people can make medical choices for themselves based on their needs and resources.

Feels good to call it a "medical" decision when it is not. Doesn't it? Having a medical abortion because there is a medical reason isn't the same as calling it "medical" just to make it sound like " healthcare" when it isn't .

As I said - even a Catholic Hospital would not have denied you an abortion - as you describe it - it would have been medically necessary. But those aren't the abortions we are talking about.

 

[MaryP]

I know women who have had abortions, and there is nothing easy about the decision. It haunts them always. But I don't know any that would do any differently either. When faced with that decision myself, I couldn't do it; I was lucky that the father was a responsible human and we got married. I suppose if he hadn't, I would have been forced to have the abortion, even though it literally made me vomit everytime I thought about it. It changed the entire trajectory of my life as the woman who not only bore the child but was his primary and at times sole caregiver.

I strongly believe in a woman's right to choose. As awesome as parenthood is, it should be entered into with thought and care not just for the man and woman, but for the child. It gives me chills to hear of Pro Lifers who think a 14 year old or a crack addict or a woman suffering mental illness or living under a bridge must be a mother. What kind of life are you wishing on that baby?

The biological drives of our species dictate that most of us will have sex quite a bit, particularly when we're young and awash with hormones. Males can walk away from those encounters. Women pay the costs. Birth control is the most sensible preventive, so I've never understood why Pro Lifers want to shut down Planned Parenthood.

I saw a very moving Catholic mass for the unborn once. The priest talked about lost potential, the hope inherent in every conception. I don't disagree with that. But I also think of it as a gardener. Seed scattered on the ground, that which finds itself in fertile soil with rain and sun in good measure will flourish. That seed blown onto a barren rock face or into a dark place will not grow well. Our planet has enough problems without mindlessly reproducing when conditions to give that child a healthy life don't exist.

 

[Nathan.22]

Why do you make such a demand of me?
You are nothing to me that I should afford you this request.

I did not demand anything from you personally? If you want to have a go feel free if you don’t move on with your life that does not bother me.

 

[Bodi]

In a life and death situation such as they can either save the unborn child or save the Mother, which life gets chosen?

The mother, absolutely.

 

[Bodi]

Great post... keep 'em coming...

I'm Pro-Life: Change My Mind

I am Pro life change my mind Why do you make such a demand of me? You are nothing to me that I should afford you this request. Yeah...esp since many of us did respond and he's pretty much disappeared. Popped in once today. Post 85 for mine.

debatepolitics.com

 

[screenwriter]

The mother, absolutely.

Check out the one man show "Time Flies When You're Alive" - many women have chosen the life of their child over their own life. So, no, "the mother" is not the absolute answer for all women. That's where I'm 100% pro choice - in those instances the mother gets to choose

 

[vegas giants]

Yes, abortion was indeed once a valid medical procedure that was used as such. Much like reconstructive surgery was created to help those who were deformed or maimed. Abortion and reconstructive (aka plastic) surgery have both been usurped by pop culture to suit a whim instead of being medically necessary. Even a Catholic Hospital will perform a medically necessary abortion - regardless of what fear mongers would have you believe. It is a valid medical procedure when there has to be a choice between one life or the other. Many women have chosen not to abort even though it would mean their life is in danger. You would have fit into that category where it could be called medically necessary. That's not what is happening in the vast majority of cases.

It is a valid medical procedure in the US currently. You may think it should not be but currently it is.

 

[Bodi]

Check out the one man show "Time Flies When You're Alive" - many women have chosen the life of their child over their own life. So, no, "the mother" is not the absolute answer for all women. That's where I'm 100% pro choice - in those instances the mother gets to choose

I am pro choice too... the mother should live, absolutely.

 

[year2late]

Feels good to call it a "medical" decision when it is not. Doesn't it? Having a medical abortion because there is a medical reason isn't the same as calling it "medical" just to make it sound like " healthcare" when it isn't .

As I said - even a Catholic Hospital would not have denied you an abortion - as you describe it - it would have been medically necessary. But those aren't the abortions we are talking about.

It is a decision based on resources (personal, social, medical, financial) and perceived risk. YOU called it medical.

What is so difficult to grasp?

Do you understand that a woman with poor personal, medical, and financial resources is at greater risk during and after pregnancy? Not just medical risk either. Most women who chose abortion are scraping by with financial resources....a loss of a shift for an MD appointment, can mean she loses her phone service. Loss of weeks of work due to pregnancy can mean eviction. I could go on...but I am hoping you can grasp this concept.

I am not expecting you to approve of abortion. But hell, I wish you could understand that loss of wages during pregnancy can have dire consequences for a poor woman. Most women do not have abortions because of trivial inconvenience. But yeah, it is inconvenient to get evicted because you could not make rent because of pregnancy.

 

[screenwriter]

It is a decision based on resources (personal, social, medical, financial) and perceived risk. YOU called it medical.

What is so difficult to grasp?

Do you understand that a woman with poor personal, medical, and financial resources is at greater risk during and after pregnancy? Not just medical risk either. Most women who chose abortion are scraping by with financial resources....a loss of a shift for an MD appointment, can mean she loses her phone service. Loss of weeks of work due to pregnancy can mean eviction. I could go on...but I am hoping you can grasp this concept.

I am not expecting you to approve of abortion. But hell, I wish you could understand that loss of wages during pregnancy can have dire consequences for a poor woman. Most women do not have abortions because of trivial inconvenience. But yeah, it is inconvenient to get evicted because you could not make rent because of pregnancy.

Then why not give her the same right to eliminate all such drawbacks to her life?

 

[weaver2]

Then why not give her the same right to eliminate all such drawbacks to her life?

How do you see this happening?

 

[year2late]

Then why not give her the same right to eliminate all such drawbacks to her life?

In the US, the group that most politically aligns with pro-life (Republicans) is the very same group that fights against low or no cost health care and social services that would give the woman the ability pay rent etc. It is also the same group that fights to close down the very place where women get low or no cost contraception,