Illegals are flaunting the fact they are here illegally on a bus tour.

[Bodi]

While I don't advocate sending the troops into Mexico without that country's approval, I would support a high level agreement between the two countries for such action. But only if they let us do it our way. I don't want corrupt Mexican authorities ****ing things up and getting our guys killed.

And, I don't advocate your method of dealing with illegal aliens. I'd prefer to remove the incentives they have for coming in the first place.

This is just my extreme view coming out. I would also prefer to use existing laws, punish businesses, remove incentives, use technology at the border, etc to solve the problem. I would also like to have Mexico allow us to do things our way. As it is though, I don't think that will happen so I advocate the extreme measures.

 

[notquiteright]

But I didn't say invade Mexico now did I? Did say so many 'conservatives' thought so many lives and money spent so far away is justified but not any effort to help our neighbor... YOU tried to connect the dots by claiming I want to use 'force' and then walk that 'force' back.

I was speaking to the wise ass crack about if Mexicans are so good at building why is their nation a mess... again another off topic smear because sticking to the issue was a losing effort for the anti immigration folks, (not to mention at least one 'nativist' suggested shooting men women and children would stop the influx)

But what 'force' was you thinking of? and if that doesn't work like it was suggested it didn't in Iraq or is claimed isn't in Iran? Once you start down the 'force' slippery slope where do you stop?

Bod-
again Americans from south of the Rio are no more or less criminal than the 'natives' you act as if there was no drug/gang problem in this country prior to the Mexicans coming here. THAT is dishonest.

Now did you see where the whole method to determine who is or isn't here legally is at best an estimate, I read the estimates done by CHA, a very slanted piece that fails to note the estimates are just that and of course the dire warnings of doom for the 'natives'.

I'd take the California Hospital Association's numbers with a grain of salt. I'm sure you have heard of the various class action suits filed in California for the uninsured being overcharged blatantly enough for on group having their medical bills reduced by 35%.

Attempts to pass protective laws were lobbied heavily against by the CHA and Arnold thought the Hospitals' voluntary guidelines would be enough, continued lawsuits proved it wasn't and finally a law was passed to protect the uninsured from predatory practices by hospitals. (Bill 774)

All told the various lawsuits returned 1 billion dollars to patients.

UCLA Medical Center reports an increase of 25% for their ER rooms, that isn't immigrants but 'natives' stripped of healthcare insurance after loosing their jobs.

San Diego has seen it's unemployment go from 5 to 12%.

California has 6.9 million people who are uninsured. over 20%

All that to say failure to pay and overuse of the very pricey ER rooms is by far more 'native' driven than Immigrant.

Now you make one billion sound like a lot of money, again you are very selective in the use of stats.

Care to guess how much is spent on medical care in California?

One guess?

How about 230 billion according to the LA Times. so what percent of the healthcare expenditures are 'losses' according to the CHA?

230 billion goes into 1.2 billion.... hmmm i have a cheap calculator, what is the percentage?

 

[Bodi]

But I didn't say invade Mexico now did I? Did say so many 'conservatives' thought so many lives and money spent so far away is justified but not any effort to help our neighbor... YOU tried to connect the dots by claiming I want to use 'force' and then walk that 'force' back.

I was speaking to the wise ass crack about if Mexicans are so good at building why is their nation a mess... again another off topic smear because sticking to the issue was a losing effort for the anti immigration folks, (not to mention at least one 'nativist' suggested shooting men women and children would stop the influx)

But what 'force' was you thinking of? and if that doesn't work like it was suggested it didn't in Iraq or is claimed isn't in Iran? Once you start down the 'force' slippery slope where do you stop?

Bod-
again Americans from south of the Rio are no more or less criminal than the 'natives' you act as if there was no drug/gang problem in this country prior to the Mexicans coming here. THAT is dishonest.

Now did you see where the whole method to determine who is or isn't here legally is at best an estimate, I read the estimates done by CHA, a very slanted piece that fails to note the estimates are just that and of course the dire warnings of doom for the 'natives'.

I'd take the California Hospital Association's numbers with a grain of salt. I'm sure you have heard of the various class action suits filed in California for the uninsured being overcharged blatantly enough for on group having their medical bills reduced by 35%.

Attempts to pass protective laws were lobbied heavily against by the CHA and Arnold thought the Hospitals' voluntary guidelines would be enough, continued lawsuits proved it wasn't and finally a law was passed to protect the uninsured from predatory practices by hospitals. (Bill 774)

All told the various lawsuits returned 1 billion dollars to patients.

UCLA Medical Center reports an increase of 25% for their ER rooms, that isn't immigrants but 'natives' stripped of healthcare insurance after loosing their jobs.

San Diego has seen it's unemployment go from 5 to 12%.

California has 6.9 million people who are uninsured. over 20%

All that to say failure to pay and overuse of the very pricey ER rooms is by far more 'native' driven than Immigrant.

Now you make one billion sound like a lot of money, again you are very selective in the use of stats.

Care to guess how much is spent on medical care in California?

One guess?

How about 230 billion according to the LA Times. so what percent of the healthcare expenditures are 'losses' according to the CHA?

230 billion goes into 1.2 billion.... hmmm i have a cheap calculator, what is the percentage?

This just isn't worth my time any longer...

 

[notquiteright]

I agree, your 'facts' couldn't hold up and your rather intense hatred of Americans from south of the border drives your extreme measures. You exposed your intense views when you thought about shooting women and children.

As you claim Hispanics tend toward more open immigration, I'd guess there are other ethnic groups who trend toward shooting people because they want in.

Let's hope that rather bitter group is small, and just full of hot air... eace

 

[Mycroft]

But I didn't say invade Mexico now did I? Did say so many 'conservatives' thought so many lives and money spent so far away is justified but not any effort to help our neighbor... YOU tried to connect the dots by claiming I want to use 'force' and then walk that 'force' back.

I was speaking to the wise ass crack about if Mexicans are so good at building why is their nation a mess... again another off topic smear because sticking to the issue was a losing effort for the anti immigration folks, (not to mention at least one 'nativist' suggested shooting men women and children would stop the influx)

But what 'force' was you thinking of? and if that doesn't work like it was suggested it didn't in Iraq or is claimed isn't in Iran? Once you start down the 'force' slippery slope where do you stop?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume the above is in response to me. I can't be sure, though, because you haven't figured out how to properly quote a post.

Dude...don't ask me what force needs to be used. I don't think ANY force needs to be used. I don't even think we need to solve any of Mexico's problems. All I want is for our own government to enforce our existing immigration laws.

But, hey...you go right ahead and talk about "fixing" Mexico if you want. I'll pass.

 

[notquiteright]

Again Mycroft what you want is being done. Deportations average 1 million a year. ICE raids businesses.

Problem still remains, the law is impossible to enforce to the level you want. And you don't want to do anything more than rant about it.

You think some magic electronic system will save the day, but if it is overwhelmed, or delayed what is the plan? Just between us, what arev the chances of your plan becoming law?

Your not the first to be very selective in who to help outside the USofA, not the first to be selfish with democracy as if we will lose some of ours if we help others.

It's all good because at the end of the day I doubt the nation listens to the angry 'natives' and while it is awhile in coming, immigration reform will be much kinder and gentler than seal the border, and deny jobs.

Good Luck... eace

Oh one thought about your whine about quotes, everyone else manages to keep up without them, what does that say about you?

 

[PrometheusBound]

We have students and staff here from Brazil, Columbia, Chile and Argentina... I have known hundreds of Mexicans and other CENTRAL Americans. Not one EVER called themselves an "American". When I ask the people from Brazil where they were from they say Brazil and they are Brazillian.

In fact, when living in SoCal and the USA was playing Mexico... the Mexicans proudly display their Mexican flags, call themselves Mexicans and root AGAINST the United States.

In travelling the world and in living around the world NOT ONE person EVER has referred to anything other than a citizen of the United States as an "American". What you are doing is disingenuous at best and dishonestly labelling in order to make the argument in your favor at worst.

Either way it shows you are not Intellectually Honest.

In fact, if we wanted to get as wimpy as the touchy-feely multiculties, we could feel offended by the generic term "Americans." I'm sure Koreans and Japanese, etc, would correct you if you generically called them "Asians."

With his head down and shuffling his feat, the America-haters' poster child of what they want the Americans to feel about themselves humbly admits, "I ain't got no nationality. I guess you can just call a nobody like me an 'American'--you know, somebody from somewhere in those two continents off away from places where everybody else has a special name for their nationality."

Also, this is as silly as Houston Astros' fans feeling that the Texas Rangers are pretty arrogant for implying that they are the only major league baseball team in Texas.

 

[Bodi]

I agree, your 'facts' couldn't hold up and your rather intense hatred of Americans from south of the border drives your extreme measures. You exposed your intense views when you thought about shooting women and children.

As you claim Hispanics tend toward more open immigration, I'd guess there are other ethnic groups who trend toward shooting people because they want in.

Let's hope that rather bitter group is small, and just full of hot air... eace

Shoot Canadien illegal immigrants too...

...and I simply quit debating you because you only care that illegals are "mistreated" and that violating laws is fine. You are also dishonest in your terminology and you will twist facts so that it fits your agenda. You and cmackoiz are the type of person that honest debate is a waste of time.

 

[Bodi]

Oh one thought about your whine about quotes, everyone else manages to keep up without them, what does that say about you?

I have mentioned it as well and the only reason that we keep up is that we are smarter than you...

 

[Mycroft]

Again Mycroft what you want is being done. Deportations average 1 million a year. ICE raids businesses.

Problem still remains, the law is impossible to enforce to the level you want. And you don't want to do anything more than rant about it.

You think some magic electronic system will save the day, but if it is overwhelmed, or delayed what is the plan? Just between us, what arev the chances of your plan becoming law?

Your not the first to be very selective in who to help outside the USofA, not the first to be selfish with democracy as if we will lose some of ours if we help others.

It's all good because at the end of the day I doubt the nation listens to the angry 'natives' and while it is awhile in coming, immigration reform will be much kinder and gentler than seal the border, and deny jobs.

Good Luck... eace

Oh one thought about your whine about quotes, everyone else manages to keep up without them, what does that say about you?

Ummm...

You do realize there is a group of criminals running around the country proclaiming their illegal status, right? Have they been apprehended? This is the level of enforcement I'm looking for. Do you think it's impossible to arrest those folks?

Oh, and another thing: Just because I...and others...can barely manage to figure out who you are talking to, doesn't mean you are not deficient in properly using the quote system built into this forum. It's there for a reason, you know.

 

[Bodi]

In fact, if we wanted to get as wimpy as the touchy-feely multiculties, we could feel offended by the generic term "Americans." I'm sure Koreans and Japanese, etc, would correct you if you generically called them "Asians."

With his head down and shuffling his feat, the America-haters' poster child of what they want the Americans to feel about themselves humbly admits, "I ain't got no nationality. I guess you can just call a nobody like me an 'American'--you know, somebody from somewhere in those two continents off away from places where everybody else has a special name for their nationality."

Also, this is as silly as Houston Astros' fans feeling that the Texas Rangers are pretty arrogant for implying that they are the only major league baseball team in Texas.

Makes me wonder why the Aneheim Angels changed their name to the Los Angeles Angels of Aneheim? :lol:

Envy? Maybe the Mexicans have America envy too...

 

[notquiteright]

Well now it is just getting weird and redundant. Seems a stretch to say the very least to ramble on about shuffling haters. I would have said a few 'nativists' got butt hurt over calling everyone in the New World- Americans and then trying a little dance about not all undocumented are Americans when I used Americans from south of the Rio to keep the focus on those the 'natives' are whining about.

Then we back track to the beginning with a repetition of the criminal swipe. Never mind any law enforcement organization is free to arrest them, the whiners are free to apprehend them, never mind thousands of 'real' citizens are running around with failure to appear bench warrants issued and their home and work addresses a matter of record but no sweeps to round them up.

It is the fact these bus riders are trying to show the nation undocumented immigrants are just like any other immigrant who came here looking for a better life that seems to set a few whiners off.

Fortunately, few thoughtful folks want to shoot women and children to 'defend the border', want to build the Berlin Wall in the desert, and demand people produce their papers.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Again Mycroft what you want is being done. Deportations average 1 million a year. ICE raids businesses.

Problem still remains, the law is impossible to enforce to the level you want. And you don't want to do anything more than rant about it.

No law is 100% enforceable. With the kind of logic you used then why even have laws? The only "level" that we want our laws enforced is to the best of our abilities. A bus load of illegal aliens proclaiming their illegal status should be arrested period. The fact that they are not being arrested shows that our government is not enforcing our laws to the best of thier ability. Do you deny this? The fact that there are 1 million deportations/yr is irrelevent to that bus load of illegal aliens.

You think some magic electronic system will save the day, but if it is overwhelmed, or delayed what is the plan? Just between us, what arev the chances of your plan becoming law?

No it will not save the day. No one expects it to. But it will certainly help alot. And if built properly it wouldn't be overwhelmed and a delay is just that, a delay. Time will take care of that in itself. Puny excuses to use to not at the very least attempt it.

Your not the first to be very selective in who to help outside the USofA, not the first to be selfish with democracy as if we will lose some of ours if we help others.

Again, our immigration laws are not selective in the ways that you are trying to proclaim them as being selective. Everyone has a chance to get into the US legally. The fact that the majority of illegals in this country came into this country legally but overstayed their visa's should show this to everyone.

And whats this crap with being selfish with democracy? What? Is it the fact that illegals don't get to vote that makes you say that? Well, why should we let them? They've already proven that they cannot follow our laws. Not exactly good grounds to let them vote now is it?

It's all good because at the end of the day I doubt the nation listens to the angry 'natives' and while it is awhile in coming, immigration reform will be much kinder and gentler than seal the border, and deny jobs.

The majority of people in the US don't want illegals in this country. The majority of US citizens do want the immigration process streamlined but they do not want an amnesty. Your statement here is nothing more than drivel.

 

[PrometheusBound]

Makes me wonder why the Aneheim Angels changed their name to the Los Angeles Angels of Aneheim? :lol:

Envy? Maybe the Mexicans have America envy too...

And what about the Houston Texans football team? What outrageous arrogance! Houstonians must think only they represent the state of Texas!!!

 

[Bodi]

Well now it is just getting weird and redundant. Seems a stretch to say the very least to ramble on about shuffling haters. I would have said a few 'nativists' got butt hurt over calling everyone in the New World- Americans and then trying a little dance about not all undocumented are Americans when I used Americans from south of the Rio to keep the focus on those the 'natives' are whining about.

Then we back track to the beginning with a repetition of the criminal swipe. Never mind any law enforcement organization is free to arrest them, the whiners are free to apprehend them, never mind thousands of 'real' citizens are running around with failure to appear bench warrants issued and their home and work addresses a matter of record but no sweeps to round them up.

It is the fact these bus riders are trying to show the nation undocumented immigrants are just like any other immigrant who came here looking for a better life that seems to set a few whiners off.

Fortunately, few thoughtful folks want to shoot women and children to 'defend the border', want to build the Berlin Wall in the desert, and demand people produce their papers.

Jesus... who the **** are you talking to now? :lol:

 

[Bodi]

And what about the Houston Texans football team? What outrageous arrogance! Houstonians must think only they represent the state of Texas!!!

Why did they change their name anyway? I could look it up but that would mean I care...

 

[PrometheusBound]

Why did they change their name anyway? I could look it up but that would mean I care...

The original team, the Oilers, moved to Nashville and became the Tennessee Titans. But there we go again--isn't it arrogant for Nashville to claim that only they represent the whole state! What if Memphis wants a team? According to the multiculties, the Titans will have to become the Nashville Titans!!!

 

[Running]

Now if you guys were promoting freedom from the government. Maybe then the government would show you the same respect it shows illegals.

 

[mac]

I agree, your 'facts' couldn't hold up and your rather intense hatred of Americans from south of the border drives your extreme measures. You exposed your intense views when you thought about shooting women and children.

As you claim Hispanics tend toward more open immigration, I'd guess there are other ethnic groups who trend toward shooting people because they want in.

Let's hope that rather bitter group is small, and just full of hot air... eace

The USG's responsible for US citizens, not Mexican citizens. Our primary reason for immigration control is to allow US citizens to get our jobs, not Mexican (or other South Americans) to get them.

Personally, I find nothing wrong with haveing immigration controls on par with Mexican immigration controls which are some of the most stringent in the world.

There is nothing racist about opposing illegal immigration, our first duty is to Americans (US variety).

 

[notquiteright]

Why did you dredge this back up?

It is just the same ol' **** being trotted out repeatedly. Some 'nativists' feel if the South of the Border Americans were highly restricted in their immigration quota US citizens would get their jobs back.

The SotB Americans didn't take the high tech jobs, the auto maker jobs, the steel mill jobs, building industrial machines, building merchant ships, washing machines, televisions, medical equipment...

No the SotB Americans didn't take those high paying, build the middle class jobs.... THOSE jobs were SENT overseas to Chinese nationals.

So what high paying, build the middle class, build a future for your family jobs are the SotB Americans taking?

 

[mac]

Why did you dredge this back up?

It is just the same ol' **** being trotted out repeatedly. Some 'nativists' feel if the South of the Border Americans were highly restricted in their immigration quota US citizens would get their jobs back.

The SotB Americans didn't take the high tech jobs, the auto maker jobs, the steel mill jobs, building industrial machines, building merchant ships, washing machines, televisions, medical equipment...

No the SotB Americans didn't take those high paying, build the middle class jobs.... THOSE jobs were SENT overseas to Chinese nationals.

So what high paying, build the middle class, build a future for your family jobs are the SotB Americans taking?

Every job is a "build the middle class" job. Having a job moves you towards a better job by gaining work experience. Sitting on your couch waiting for a check while an illegal immigrant does the work you should be doing does nothing for your employability.

 

[Bodi]

The original team, the Oilers, moved to Nashville and became the Tennessee Titans. But there we go again--isn't it arrogant for Nashville to claim that only they represent the whole state! What if Memphis wants a team? According to the multiculties, the Titans will have to become the Nashville Titans!!!

That's right. I forgot about the Oilers move and name change. I hate the name change. The Lakers stayed the Lakers after moving from the land of lakes to the desert. Why couldn't the Oilers keep tradition?

 

[mac]

That's right. I forgot about the Oilers move and name change. I hate the name change. The Lakers stayed the Lakers after moving from the land of lakes to the desert. Why couldn't the Oilers keep tradition?

Because Tennessee Oilers conjures up images of old rednecks rubbing babyoil on themselves and getting weird on a waterbed...