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If you're keeping score on the US and Iran

Okay... and an often secretive quasi-military international negotiating chip is not a civilian nuclear programme, is it? So an honest and credible OP would not have described it as such.
Yes, it is. In several posts you have not made a case it's not. It's not needed I prove a negative, but even the IAEA and US Intelligence (until trump threatened Gabbard) said Iran is not pursuing a weapon.
 
Yes, it is. In several posts you have not made a case it's not. It's not needed I prove a negative, but even the IAEA and US Intelligence (until trump threatened Gabbard) said Iran is not pursuing a weapon.
So... do you understand that you started the thread? :rolleyes: You made the claim that the bombing targets were "civilian nuclear energy facilities," despite the known fact that 60% enriched uranium is literally a dozen times higher than used in energy generation. Trying to squirm back into putting the onus on other folk just undermines your credibility on the topic even further.

Iran have been pursuing (and have) easily-weaponizable highly enriched uranium. They may well have had no immediate intention to actually turn it into a weapon, at least before the attacks, but you just claimed it's a "negotiating chip" and that status wholly depends on its weaponizable rather than civilian nature. Knowing that, it seems your OP claim that the bombing was carried out on "civilian nuclear energy facilities" was more like a straight-up lie than simple ignorance. Civilian nuclear energy facilities don't get built in secret bunkers a hundred meters underground protected by anti-aircraft missile systems.
 
So... do you understand that you started the thread? :rolleyes: You made the claim that the bombing targets were "civilian nuclear energy facilities," despite the known fact that 60% enriched uranium is literally a dozen times higher than used in energy generation. Trying to squirm back into putting the onus on other folk just undermines your credibility on the topic even further.

Iran have been pursuing (and have) easily-weaponizable highly enriched uranium. They may well have had no immediate intention to actually turn it into a weapon, at least before the attacks, but you just claimed it's a "negotiating chip" and that status wholly depends on its weaponizable rather than civilian nature. Knowing that, it seems your OP claim that the bombing was carried out on "civilian nuclear energy facilities" was more like a straight-up lie than simple ignorance. Civilian nuclear energy facilities don't get built in secret bunkers a hundred meters underground protected by anti-aircraft missile systems.

You need a lesson on the situation, and the way to get it isn't to begin with obnoxious, evidence-free attacks. You also need some good faith approach. I'll say this once and you need a change in tone to get more response. And you will begin with an apology for your lie about a lie.

There is a decades long history to the topic. Iran began its peaceful atomic program in 1953 at the behest of the US. Iran has a real and legitimate need and use for nuclear power.

Over 30 years ago, Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwah against getting a nuclear weapon and Iran always said it did not want one and had moral objections to them, and their actions always matched that.

But since the 1990's, interests who want to attack the country - the rogue state and the US - have found that asserting Iran wants and is close to a nuclear weapon as a pretense for attacking the country, with sanctions or militarily, Netanyahu asserting it trying to get the US into war with Iran since the 1990's - have found that useful pretense and lie.

Iran has always co-operated until recently with the international processes - unlike the rogue state, it joined the non-proliferation treaty, it accepted the IAEA and is the most closely inspected country in the world.

As the US sanctioned them over and over over the 'nuclear weapon' issue, Iran called their bluff. That resulted in the Obama agreement, where Iran traded what it already didn't want but the US had weaponized against them, for sanction relief, and everyone agreed they honored the agreement.

Then trump reneged, and left Iran free to do what they want, yet Iran kept complying. Yes, they enriched uranium further - not to weapon level - when it was clear that 'trading away' the weapon they don't want is what gets them leverage in negotiations. They have never lifted the Fatwah against a weapon.

In response, they saw drastic sanctions again, their consulate bombed, their national war hero leader assassinated on a peace mission, constant threats, on an on until the US used subterfuge about wanting 'talks' while setting them up for being bombed. I already cited the IAEA and US intelligence saying Iran was not pursuing a weapon. Now you can apologize or that's it.
 
You need a lesson on the situation, and the way to get it isn't to begin with obnoxious, evidence-free attacks. You also need some good faith approach. I'll say this once and you need a change in tone to get more response. And you will begin with an apology for your lie about a lie.
lol However dubious your claims here may be, what you are doing is repeatedly and emphatically declaring that your OP claim was indeed false, that their highly-enriched uranium sites are not about "civilian nuclear energy" but supposedly about some kind of international diplomatic leverage.

There is a decades long history to the topic. Iran began its peaceful atomic program in 1953 at the behest of the US. Iran has a real and legitimate need and use for nuclear power.

Over 30 years ago, Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwah against getting a nuclear weapon and Iran always said it did not want one and had moral objections to them, and their actions always matched that.
And for over a century America has rhetorically fetishized and Constitutionally enshrined their moral values of 'liberty' and 'equality,' but that doesn't always mean much in practice 🤭 Regardless, there's a huge range of possibilities in between the "civilian nuclear energy" usage you falsely claimed in the OP and actually developing nuclear weapons, including the international diplomatic leverage angle you are now pushing: As I said, they may well have had no immediate intention to actually turn their stockpile of easily-weaponizable highly-enriched uranium into a weapon, but since at least the 1980s' US backed aggression and use of WMDs against them by Saddam Hussein they've had excellent practical grounds to want that capability as a deterrent, and on at least one recent occasion (2021) have openly indicated that if pushed they may indeed finalize weapon development.

But since the 1990's, interests who want to attack the country - the rogue state and the US - have found that asserting Iran wants and is close to a nuclear weapon as a pretense for attacking the country, with sanctions or militarily, Netanyahu asserting it trying to get the US into war with Iran since the 1990's - have found that useful pretense and lie.

Iran has always co-operated until recently with the international processes - unlike the rogue state, it joined the non-proliferation treaty, it accepted the IAEA and is the most closely inspected country in the world.
Bollocks. In 2003 the IAEA reported that "Iran has failed to meet its obligations under its Safeguards Agreement with respect to the reporting of nuclear material, the subsequent processing and use of that material and the declaration of facilities where the material was stored and processed," citing issues going back to 1991. A later IAEA report noted that "Iran’s policy of concealment continued until October 2003, and resulted in many breaches of its obligation to comply with that Agreement." Seems a little strange that a country worried about economic sanctions and subjected to accusations of a secret military nuclear program would engage in extensive violations of its commitments in order to maintain secrecy around a purely civilian nuclear program, rather than providing the required disclosure and access :unsure: On the contrary, after further fact-finding the IAEA in 2015 reported that "The Agency assesses that a range of activities relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device were conducted in Iran prior to the end of 2003 as a coordinated effort, and some activities took place after 2003. The Agency also assesses that these activities did not advance beyond feasibility and scientific studies, and the acquisition of certain relevant technical competences and capabilities. The Agency has no credible indications of activities in Iran relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device after 2009."

It seems that once they were caught with their hand in the cookie jar they were (relatively) willing and coerced to pull it out, at the time.
 
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As the US sanctioned them over and over over the 'nuclear weapon' issue, Iran called their bluff. That resulted in the Obama agreement, where Iran traded what it already didn't want but the US had weaponized against them, for sanction relief, and everyone agreed they honored the agreement.

Then trump reneged, and left Iran free to do what they want, yet Iran kept complying. Yes, they enriched uranium further
This is (at best) deliberately misleading, suggesting that Trump renegued on the JCPOA but Iran kept complying, which they obviously did not; throughout 2019 Iran explicitly announced that they were progressively suspending implementation of and breaching the shattered agreement, including breaching the explicit limit of 3.67% uranium enrichment. After all, why would they keep complying with an already-broken agreement? Hard to fault them for that... but your ongoing and (since you claim to be so knowledgeable on the subject) apparently-deliberate misrepresentation of the facts is certainly blameworthy.

- not to weapon level - when it was clear that 'trading away' the weapon they don't want is what gets them leverage in negotiations. They have never lifted the Fatwah against a weapon.

In response, they saw drastic sanctions again, their consulate bombed, their national war hero leader assassinated on a peace mission, constant threats, on an on until the US used subterfuge about wanting 'talks' while setting them up for being bombed. I already cited the IAEA and US intelligence saying Iran was not pursuing a weapon. Now you can apologize or that's it.
This is totally nonsensical: You're claiming that they progressed towards military grade uranium purely because it supposedly gets them an advantage in international relations while simultaneously admitting that doing so has been very harmful for their international relations. I'd guess that Iran's leaders are not the irrational actors you seem to believe: They're not enriching uranium as leverage to gain relief from the sanctions imposed against their uranium enrichment, they're enriching uranium to gain a deterrent capability against the possibility of something much worse, something that they've seen inflicted on their neighbours on both sides in the past two decades.

- They've had good reasons to want a nuclear deterrent capability, regardless of whether or not they'd actually make a weapon unprovoked
- They are known to have been developing that capability in the 1990s and early 2000s in violation of their international agreements
- After an intermittent pause/slowdown during the late 2000s and 2010s, they resumed production of highly-enriched and easily-weaponizable uranium
- On at least one recent occasion they've indicated that if pushed they may finalize their development of weapon

Trying to stack up all the evils on the American side and asserting falsehoods in an effort to paint Iran as pure and innocent little lambs as in the OP is propaganda, plain and simple. Their efforts to develop nuclear capabilities are quite understandable under the circumstances - and simultaneously they may indeed have had no immediate intention to actually make a nuclear weapon - but they obviously have breached their international agreements and (however illegal the attack was) the recent US bombing targets were obviously not "civilian nuclear energy facilities"... as you yourself have subsequently and repeatedly acknowledged despite the affect of wounded innocence on your own part.
 
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Didn't see the apology in the opening.
 
I already cited the IAEA and US intelligence saying Iran was not pursuing a weapon. Now you can apologize or that's it.
I'm pretty sure this comment was more along the lines of ignorance than a deliberate lie, since I have seen some sites trying to spin the IAEA's measured comments along the lines of "no conclusive evidence that Iran is doing X" into an unscientific declaration about an unprovable negative "Iran is not doing X." But given your insistence that you are fully-informed on the subject, your ongoing refusal to provide any kind of sources or credible basis for your false claims, and your refusal to even acknowledge the well-sourced correction of your misinformation... that's kind of a distinction without a difference at this point 🤭


GOV/2025/25: NPT Safeguards Agreement with the Islamic Republic of Iran, 31 May 2025, IAEA

83. Therefore, at present, the Agency concludes that Iran did not declare nuclear material and nuclear related activities at three undeclared locations in Iran, specifically, Lavisan-Shian, Varamin, and Turquzabad. Because of the lack of technically credible answers provided by Iran, the Agency is not in a position to determine whether the nuclear material at these three undeclared locations in Iran has been consumed, mixed with other declared material, or is still outside of safeguards.​
84. Iran’s insistence on a unique and unilateral approach to its legally binding obligation under modified Code 3.1 obstructs the Agency’s visibility of relevant activities, thereby undermining the effective implementation of safeguards in Iran. Unlike all other States with a CSA, Iran is the only country that is not meeting its obligations related to the implementation of the modified Code 3.1, contrary to the established practice of all such States.​
85. The rapid accumulation of highly enriched uranium is of serious concern and adds to the complexity of the issues described in this report, which the Agency cannot ignore given the potential proliferation implications.​
86. In light of the above assessment, the Director General reiterates his urgent call upon Iran to cooperate fully and effectively with the Agency. Unless and until Iran assists the Agency in resolving the outstanding issues, the Agency will not be in a position to provide assurance that Iran’s nuclear programme is exclusively peaceful.​
 
I'm pretty sure this comment was more along the lines of ignorance than a deliberate lie

Didn't see an apology in the initial comment.
 
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