If your child's teacher did this, would you pull them from class?

[OscarB63]

A functioning woman can remain a functioning woman from the day she is born to the day she dies of old age without having to rely on society to keep her functioning. What happens to these TS women if civilization collapses and their hormone supply is ended? Are they still functional?

civilization collapses and their hormone supply runs out, they become an androgynous freak since their body does not produce any "sex" hormones of its own. Basically a eunuch with an inverted penis.

 

[RiverDad]

That is simply not true. Physically they are no longer men. Chemically they are no longer men. They are instead women in regards to those states of being.

Sexual dimorphism in brain development precedes hormonal influence on brain development. TS is a hormonal-related developmental disorder. They're not born with a female brain in a male body, they're born with a male brain that has been hormonally changed during development. The change doesn't result in a female brain.

 

[OscarB63]

That is simply not true. Physically they are no longer men. Chemically they are no longer men. They are instead women in regards to those states of being.

wrong. just because they have mutilated themselves and they are no longer "men", that doesn't make them "women".

 

[clownboy]

That is simply not true. Physically they are no longer men. Chemically they are no longer men. They are instead women in regards to those states of being.

Again, neither is true. Physically they are still men, they do not have a female reproductive system and no amount of surgery will change that. Chemically they are still men, that's why they have to take hormones for the rest of their lives afterwards - so the maleness does not reassert.

 

[Zinthaniel]

YOU argued they are the same medically and chemically. You were wrong. Now you're trying to modify and walk back that statement. The most you can say here is that have been surgically and chemically altered to look and function close enough to a woman that a casual observer cannot tell the difference. A doctor or other medical personnel certainly could tell the difference.

I haven't modified anything and I stand by what I said, and you link refuted nothing. A transgender women is both physically and chemically a women, this does not mean that she is biologically, or perhaps better said, genetically a woman.

You seem to believe I care about that, I don't. He can alter himself to look like a unicorn for all I care. What he did to his wife and his kids to seek his own personal nirvana, that is what I care about here. And how can you believe that such a selfish critter is not going to allow his personal issues to affect his classroom full of children?

You don't know what happened with his wife. If you do pray tell. For all you know they both came to a mutual understanding. Marriages die and lovers grow apart, that's life. His child will be fine, he/she will learn that this world is full of all types of people despite what bigots may want he or she to believe, and there is nothing worn with a transgender woman. The child will grow up broad minded, open minded, tolerant, and worldly.

There is absolutely no reason for me to assume that she will disrupt her class with her change.

 

[Zinthaniel]

You keep repeating the same debunked nonsense. They ARE different chemically, that's why they need suppliments the rest of their lives. They ARE different physically, as any doctor would immediately be able to determine given a routine examination.

Nothing I have said has been debunked. You link did not refute anything. While on hormones they are biochemically a woman. Their physicality is a women. That is a fact.

 

[clownboy]

Yeah, they must also go through hormone therapy which effectively changes the make up of their physical appearance by giving them breast, changing their temperament, their skin, their hair, etc.

The removal of their testes drains them of testosterone and estrogen is introduced to their body. Their penis is then re purposed into a vagina.

The are effectively turned into functioning women.

OMG, quit it. Such inaccurate drivel. "The removal of their testes drains them of testosterone and estrogen is introduced to their body". Nonsense. Ovaries produce testosterone as well. Testes produce estrogen as well.

 

[Zinthaniel]

Again, neither is true. Physically they are still men, they do not have a female reproductive system and not amount of surgery will change that. Chemically they are still men, that's why they have to take hormones for the rest of their lives afterwards - so the maleness does not reassert.

No they are not physically still a man. Last time I checked men do not have breast and vagina. Chemically they are not men, last time i checked men are not absent of testosterone and surplus of estrogen.

 

[opendebate]

To each his own, but I don't think we should celebrate mental illness. Disassociation from the reality that he is a man is a serious problem that should be treated appropriately. Appropriately does not mean celebrating and reinforcing the delusion. We don't celebrate the schizophrenics that believe the POTUS is an alien from planet Xenon Y3 so why celebrate men (or women) that can't come to terms with their own bodies?

Wrong reality brother

 

[Hard Truth]

Meh, not my issue. Close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades. That last speaks to my main complaint with this asshat - in a desparate quest for his own happiness (which is a fleeting thing to begin with), he screwed over his wife and children. Wouldn't want a person like that (gay, straight, transsexual or blueberry) teaching my children. I'm funny like that.

Link? That is not in the OP's link. It doesn't say whether he has children or anything about the state of his marriage.

 

[Zinthaniel]

OMG, quit it. Such inaccurate drivel. "The removal of their testes drains them of testosterone and estrogen is introduced to their body". Nonsense. Ovaries produce testosterone as well. Testes produce estrogen as well.

Nothing is inaccurate. Testes produce a very low amount of estrogen. And ovaries the same in regards to testosterone. When the testes are removed from a male the testosterone is not longer released into the body thus it is "drained". This is replaced with injected estrogen.

 

[Zinthaniel]

wrong. just because they have mutilated themselves and they are no longer "men", that doesn't make them "women".

This is your opinion. Factually the changes make them a woman.

 

[clownboy]

No they are not physically still a man. Last time I checked men do not have breast and vagina. Chemically they are not men, last time i checked men are not absent of testosterone and surplus of estrogen.

Natural born women are not absent of testosterone, that's a fail in your knowledge right there. That alone should indicate to you that more research is necessary on the issue before you go asserting truth. Chemically they ARE men, for the umpteenth time, they must take chemicals their entire lives to suppress their maleness.

And males do indeed have breats.

 

[Fiddytree]

You seem to believe I care about that, I don't. He can alter himself to look like a unicorn for all I care. What he did to his wife and his kids to seek his own personal nirvana, that is what I care about here. And how can you believe that such a selfish critter is not going to allow his personal issues to affect his classroom full of children?

You have to treat it like an instructor going through a divorce, if that is what the family is going through. Other than its uniqueness, this situation ought not be treated that differently. Lastly, I would take issue with the selfish label. One could just as easily flip your belief by pointing out that the individual in question felt that their true identity was being buried. That's hardly a healthy way to live, nor is it beyond the pale to suggest that a person at least be able to feel like they are sufficiently comfortable with their gender.

 

[clownboy]

Link? That is not in the OP's link. It doesn't say whether he has children or anything about the state of his marriage.

Yes it does, it says he has a wife and children.

 

[OscarB63]

No they are not physically still a man. Last time I checked men do not have breast and vagina. Chemically they are not men, last time i checked men are not absent of testosterone and surplus of estrogen.

despite any cosmetic changes they go through, they still have a "Y" chromosome. therefore, they are still "men".

 

[RiverDad]

Nothing I have said has been debunked. You link did not refute anything. While on hormones they are biochemically a woman. Their physicality is a women. That is a fact.

A fetus developing as a female begins brain development before female hormones wash over her brain and begin to exert their developmental contribution. A male TS does not have the same developmental path, his brain begins development as a male brain and then gets kicked off track due to a developmental error in pregnancy. The hormonal influence on brain development results in a brain that isn't entirely male and in a brain which cannot qualify as a female brain.

What we know so far is that something during development doesn't follow script. What we certainly don't know is that after the development error, the hormonal flood, that brain development follows the path taken by a female fetus, in other words, we don't know if the developmental error kicks the brain development of the male over onto the female tracks and then development follows a different path. That is VERY unlikely because brain development is a genetic process, not a hormonal process, so even with a brain restructuring having just taken place, the brain structure is now something like NOT MALE and NOT FEMALE.

So if sex identity reside in the brain and the brain is NOT FEMALE then the TS cannot be FEMALE. The TS is a proxy female.

 

[OscarB63]

This is your opinion. Factually the changes make them a woman.

nope. they still have "Y" chromosome, still a man.

 

[Zinthaniel]

Natural born women are not absent of testosterone, that's a fail in your knowledge right there. That alone should indicate to you that more research is necessary on the issue before you go asserting truth. Chemically they ARE men, for the umpteenth time, they must take chemicals their entire lives to suppress their maleness.

And males do indeed have breats.

I am aware that along with estrogen injections a transgender still takes testosterone injections as well. The testosterone must first be drained so that the physical changes to the body can be made. The hormones, all that are necessary, are continued throughout the process and throughout their lives if they so choose to maintain the levels. During their maintenance of these hormones they are chemically a women.

No they are not men chemically. The make of a man does not consist of what biochemical make up you would find in a transgender women, that is a medical and scientific fact. They are not by any means biochemically male after hormone therapy.

 

[clownboy]

You have to treat it like an instructor going through a divorce, if that is what the family is going through. Other than its uniqueness, this situation ought not be treated that differently. Lastly, I would take issue with the selfish label. One could just as easily flip your belief by pointing out that the individual in question felt that their true identity was being buried. That's hardly a healthy way to live, nor is it beyond the pale to suggest that a person at least be able to feel like they are sufficiently comfortable with their gender.

That's an excellent comeback and worthy of discussion. I wouldn't feel any different about a teacher who is divorcing because they were cheating on their spouse and wants to light off with the new gal/fellow. Now, ordinarily, with a good teacher, the kids might never know about any of that, it doesn't affect them one way or the other. So I'd still think the teacher was an idiot, but I wouldn't object to their continued teaching on that alone.

Not the case here. The issue is literally in their faces on a daily basis.

 

[OscarB63]

Nothing is inaccurate. Testes produce a very low amount of estrogen. And ovaries the same in regards to testosterone. When the testes are removed from a male the testosterone is not longer released into the body thus it is "drained". This is replaced with injected estrogen.

the key word. if they were a functioning woman, they wouldn't need injections of estrogen.

 

[OscarB63]

I am aware that along with estrogen injections a transgender still takes testosterone injections as well. The testosterone must first be drained so that the physical changes to the body can be made. The hormones, all that are necessary, are continued throughout the process and throughout their lives if they so choose to maintain the levels. During their maintenance of these hormones they are chemically a women.

No they are not men chemically. The make of a man does not consist of what biochemical make up you would find in a transgender women, that is a medical and scientific fact. They are not by any means biochemically male after hormone therapy.

simple DNA test will show that they are still, in fact, a man.

 

[Koros]

nope. they still have "Y" chromosome, still a man.

So, the ONLY thing that makes someone a man is whether or not they have a Y chromosome? That's it? Nothing else matters to you, apparently.

 

[Zinthaniel]

nope. they still have "Y" chromosome, still a man.

That is why i said physically and chemically they are a woman. You are referencing genetic code which is neither physical or hormonal.

 

[Koros]

the key word. if they were a functioning woman, they wouldn't need injections of estrogen.

My grandmother was on estrogen shots for years. Was she not a functioning woman?