If US really supports Democracy why ...

[Laila]

does it not help Somaliland in achieving international recognition?

It seems to me that US is only concerned with Somalia and its "issues" and ignores the fact that there is a functioning democracy inside the Horn of Africa which got to where it is now without no international aid.

For there to be a moderate muslim country which is secular, pro democracy and West is such a rare thing however the rest of the world ignore this

US, EU, AU, Arab league all refuse to recognise us.

I don't understand why the West won't recognise Somaliland seeing under UN laws, we have a right to be.

But Arab countries will not recognise us because they want to use the Berbera and it'd be in our control or partly if we were recognised and the wanted union of Somaliland and Somalia to 'keep a balance' of Ethiopia.

They want Somaliland to re unite with a country that caused the killings of thousands of Somalilanders.

We've been seperated from Somalia for 17 years and with NO aid by the West we have started friendly relationships with neighbouring countries, put down tribal disputes, finished a consitution. We have untapped minerals and natural resources in our soil but can't do anything without international recognition.

Some of Human Rights paragraphs in Somaliland Constitution teach the following aspects:

1. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person
2. No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
3. No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment
4. Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
5. All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Somaliland is an overlooked African success story - African people | African women | African music | ::View Classified Ad

Somaliland Constitution


Any opinions? I do sometimes wonder if Americans are even aware of Somaliland's existence and its potential importance to the region especially Somalia where Islamists are getting hold of and influencing.

 

[Tashah]

Laila... Somaliland seems like an African version of Kurdistan. Everything required to function and flourish as an independent nation is present except international recognition and some basic assistence.

 

[Laila]

We don't need US's money - We're not Somalia. Somaliland has untapped gas and mineral resources underneath its soil. We just need international recognition to be able to get contractors to extract the minerals.

 

[Tashah]

We don't need US's money - We're not Somalia. Somaliland has untapped gas and mineral resources underneath its soil. We just need international recognition to be able to get contractors to extract the minerals.

I didn't know that Laila. Again, a parallel to Kurdistan which sits atop oceans of oil and is also Muslim.

 

[Laila]

I never knew that about Kurdistan.
Either way, i think International community is being stupid on this - I know US, It will wait untill Islamists [who are talking about attacking Somaliland - as to them we represent everything they hate] get Somaliland and then start actually paying attention when its a little too late.

I don't get why US spends hundreds of millions on Somalia when lets face it, its at deaths doors. They need to be left alone to settle their clan disputes
without the money.

 

[Tashah]

Many countries still have artificial colonial borders in place. Iraq is a prime example where the Brits threw together Kurds, Sunnis, and Shi'a. This was done purposefully to ensure constant internal conflict and thus establish the pretext...for continued British military occupation and resource exploitation.

I tend to think the International community knows very well that many modern nations were cobbled together by the colonial powers in an arbitrary fashion. The rulers of such nations do not want to loose territory and resources which equate to power. Those on the outside fear a domino effect in granting nationhood to a breakaway republic.

Because the US military is stretched thin, it must be content to only have a small Special Forces footprint in Africa. This is yet another negative result of the Iraq War. Islamists are very active in the Horn and in nations such as Algeria, Mali, and Niger.

Laila... could you tell us a bit more about your country? I have been to every North African country, but have never ventured south of the Egypt/Morocco line.

 

[Laila]

Im sorry in advance for such a long piece of text but being vague wouldn't have helped you understand the history and Somalia/Somaliland divide and partly why Somalia is where it is now

Somaliland was once an independent state: the former British colony and achieved independence on June 1960 and was immediately recognised by thirty-three countries including the United Kingdom and the United States.

At that time there was support in Somaliland by the Somalians to create a "greater Somalia" that would include a number of distinct territories surrounding the region such as Dijboubti, Parts of Ethiopia, Kenya, Puntland.

Somaliland entered willingly into a treaty with Somalia for a unity but the Somalia dictator started putting his own qabill [tribe/clan] in positions of power despite the fact the majority of educated Somalians was from Somaliland and started sending his troops into Somaliland when opposition was starting to emerge and ordered the killings of tens of thousands of Somalilanders many of them from the opposition tribe [Issaq - me and my family's tribe]

General Barre ruled Somalia for 25 years at gun point. He used his national army forces to destroy major northern cities such as Buroa, Berbera, Borama and the current capital of Somaliland Hargiesa, the rubble in many of them places are still there as are the mass graves where Somalia's General ordered men of the Issac clan to be tied with their hands behind their backs and shot not to mention the bombing of Hargiesa City leaving behind more than 50,000 women and children dead during 1988.

In response to General Barre's attempts at genocide an armed liberation resistance group called SNM (Somali National Movement) consisting mainly of Isaac tribe as established inside Somaliland.

SNM launched armed struggle against Barre regime and his henchmen – mainly Mareehan and Ogaden tribes, this lasted 3 years. After waging a costly armed liberation war with the regime, the dream of Somaliland became true and the SNM declared Somaliland independence once again only this time from Somalia.

When we declared independence, you can imagine the state of Somaliland, we had clans fighting one another now to see who could control it and so the 3 biggest clan [Issaq, Dir, Daroota] and many other small ones came together and solved their differences in order to establish better future for their children.
Our form of democracy was created to suit Somaliland and our African heritage. Somaliland's model of development has had extreme success and is the first indigenous modern African form of government with a fusion of Islamic,Tradition and Western forms of Democracy

We have two houses:
Where the clan leaders/representatives can settle disputes within each others clan and to unify it and the House of representative where we elect members of it.

Unlike the Rwanda genocide very little is known about the ethnic cleansing of the tens of thousand Somaliladers between 1988 and 1991.

You can imagine after Somalia's attempt at wiping out the biggest clan inside Somaliland how we react when US and Europe want a "reunification" with Somalia and Somaliland. Over my dead body will Somaliland ever be under the control of Somalia again, so they can finish what they started

Anyways since the declaration of independence of Somaliland, Somalia has collapsed still into civil and clan war where rival tribes and islamists are trying to gain control of Mogadishu

Funnily enough, the one thing all Somali's in Somalia can agree on is that Somaliland should never be recognised -.-'

Somaliland in comparison held a referedum on the national consitution and 97% voted yes to both a new consitution and the independence of Somaliland.

The President of Somaliland comes on election and goes by voting. Tribalism has no place in Somaliland election because the President of Somaliland Dahir Riyale Kahin is not from the tribe Isaaq

Somaliland succeeded to create unique form of problem solving as we have have one common objective To Keep Somaliland Independent.

Social services such as water, electricity and mobile telephony are partly privatized. Parents or guardians have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.
Somaliland has completely implemented the entire paragraphs in the UN Human Rights Declaration in Geneva. Minorities and Women get full rights and top pritority through the consitution.

As Somalilanders practice liberal forms of Islam, we are very moderate. We have females in office and positions of power not to mention alot of the doctors, lawyers are females.

Somaliland has settled disputes inside Ethiopia, Dijoubti, Puntland. We are the most democratic country inside Africa and our unique positioning geographically means we are especially important seeing that if Somalia gains Somaliland, it will be able to once again launch an attack on Ethiopia.

Africa is full of countries rich with large supplies of natural resources, Somaliland is no different ofc. and we need to utilize it.

However as i said above the rest of the world has it in for us.
Egypt has used its influence with Arab nations to isolate Somaliland to protect Egyptian interest by ensuring the unity and territorial integrity of Somalia, which believes will neutralize Ethiopian influence in the region.
Saudi Arabia has banned livestock imports from Somaliland for no reason which has dented our economy.
Djibouti and Eritrea have committed to protect the unity of Somalia, and have trained militia that attacks Ethiopia from Somaliland borders, fully aware that Somaliland does not have the capacity to stop all of them at its border
And oh wait, US and EU doesn't want to piss off the Islamists in Somalia by recognizing us :/

 

[Tashah]

ThankQ greatly Laila. The primer above really helped to educate me on your native country. Someday perhaps I can visit Somaliland :mrgreen:

What is the main language? Is English widely spoken? Does Shari’a, tribal, or secular law apply? I’m just curious here Laila and you do not have to respond if you would rather not. Were you born in Somaliland? If so, how did you wind up in England? Higher education reasons? Do you still visit home or plan to return?

 

[Laila]

My pleasure Tash, i always will enjoy educating others on Somaliland =]

Somali is my first language, english my second. Im learning to read and write arabic now

Inside Somaliland we have drawn from Britain which we used as a focal point on where we want our democracy to end up. We have a Judiciary system implimented and through our consitution have ensured that transparency and independence to the judges are there - After our History, we don't allow nothing to be hidden. Spending, who the President is going to meet, the politicans views are all known.

We don't use Shariah, there are still mundane laws there that was introduced during the regime but hasn't been abolished yet such as converting out of Islam which does need to go through Parliament and be struck out.
We do use Western form of punishment even if it is rarely enforced
Tribal can be used, money/animal/land can be used as compensation for a persons grievenaces through the court

In the University of Somaliland where the main subjects taught are those that would benefit Somaliland so no RE, Philsophy etc. We entirely focus on Science, Maths, Engineering and languages etc. and yes English is taught from Primary tho many pupils do leave to work with their parents after secondary.

Born in Somaliland and ended up in UK as a war refugee, my uncles and Dad all were part of the SNM and UK accepted us as Hargesia at the time was being bombed and attacked.

Me and my family base what we are going to take inside UK on what will be needed inside Somaliland.
Im taking Politics because i want to eventually go back home and help Somaliland develop even more politically. My sister has almost completed her training on medicine.

Its the duty of every Somalilander to return to their country and help it grow, My mom when she first came UK didn't know english at all but she learned and eventually finished her education, after my youngest brother hits 18. She will go back to Somaliland and volunteer in the Hopsital of Hargesia as a Nurse.

I visit Somaliland alot, im there almost every year in the summer learning more. Its very humbling as when im in UK, I take the smallest things for granted such as running water, electricity etc.
Females are very protected and held extremley high, a extreme contrast to Arab countries view on women.

 

[Tashah]

My pleasure Tash, i always will enjoy educating others on Somaliland =] Somali is my first language, english my second. Im learning to read and write arabic now

Your English is very good Laila. Gaining fluidity in a Semitic language can be very difficult. At the US Military School of Languages at Monterey, Hebrew and Arabic are considered Class IV languages... on a difficulty par with Chinese. Keep at it and be persistent.

I visit Somaliland alot, im there almost every year in the summer learning more. Its very humbling as when im in UK, I take the smallest things for granted such as running water, electricity etc.
Females are very protected and held extremley high, a extreme contrast to Arab countries view on women.

I know all too well the status of females in the Arab ME.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- We have untapped minerals and natural resources in our soil but can't do anything without international recognition --

I'm curious about that, in other parts of Africa even where military conflict and civil war is going on you will find the mining multinationals there and extracting minerals. I think of Zaire and Congo for two examples.

 

[Laila]

I'm curious about that, in other parts of Africa even where military conflict and civil war is going on you will find the mining multinationals there and extracting minerals. I think of Zaire and Congo for two examples.

Because we are not recognised, Somalia can also claim because legally Somaliland is 'in' their borders therefore the minerals are partly theirs as well -.-'

 

[Infinite Chaos]

A similar situation - but completely different politics exists in Congo - there are breakaway regimes (nowhere near as peaceful or settled as the Somaliland situation you describe) who control and allow exploitation of mineral resources whether they are recognised or not by the outside world.

How do you feel the possibility of China negotiating mineral exploitation could change the situation? I have read and heard that the arrival of China is changing how many countries in Africa view relations with the developed world and many see better development and economic ties to China.

 

[Laila]

A similar situation - but completely different politics exists in Congo - there are breakaway regimes (nowhere near as peaceful or settled as the Somaliland situation you describe) who control and allow exploitation of mineral resources whether they are recognised or not by the outside world.

How do you feel the possibility of China negotiating mineral exploitation could change the situation? I have read and heard that the arrival of China is changing how many countries in Africa view relations with the developed world and many see better development and economic ties to China.

Not possible at all for us to take out any sort of oil or minerals, the equipment needed is disgustingly expensive. This is a 'country' that recieves next to nothing in aid from the world when on the otherhand they give Somalia hundreds of millions to rearm themselves -.-'

Let me explain what i believe would happen if we found oil ...
Dijbouti would come in and want a piece.
The Islamists from the North would come in and claim a part.
As would Ethiopia and not to forget Eitrea.
Basically the whole surrounding countries would want a piece with the Islamists leading the way.

So we'd be screwed either way, we have resources but not enough to fend it off from all sides.
I want oil to be extracted but i personally believe it is too soon for us to find it as i think it would destroy our newfound democracy and make the region even more dangerous as now there is black gold underneath your territory.

China is getting interested in Somaliland, i read in some reports a while ago :/
We can't be beggers tho, if US refuse to help us. We must look to another country who will.
I may dislike it but if its get us recognition and money to protect our borders then China is most welcome even if i personally, wouldn't have liked to have that country controlling part of our economy.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

--
China is getting interested in Somaliland, i read in some reports a while ago :/
We can't be beggers tho, if US refuse to help us. We must look to another country who will.
I may dislike it but if its get us recognition and money to protect our borders then China is most welcome even if i personally, wouldn't have liked to have that country controlling part of our economy.

Sudan aside, China's reputation in Africa is a whole lot better than you think.

You talk about control - have you read of the horrors in Congo and Zaire? One US diplomat (possibly ambassador) even had dealings in the illegal sales from mines they shouldn't have been involved in.

Minerals are Africa's saviour but also it's death.

 

[Laila]

Sudan aside, China's reputation in Africa is a whole lot better than you think.

You talk about control - have you read of the horrors in Congo and Zaire? One US diplomat (possibly ambassador) even had dealings in the illegal sales from mines they shouldn't have been involved in.

Minerals are Africa's saviour but also it's death.

Oh im well aware of that and yes US hasn't had a wonderful past with Africa.

Its our death and we still haven't realised it.

 

[jujuman13]

Tashah wrote
(Islamists are very active in the Horn and in nations such as Algeria, Mali, and Niger. )

I cannot respond to whatever happens within either Mali or Niger, having never been to either Country.
However with regard to Algeria I do have some first hand knowledge.
In the early 1990s they had a general election.
Their Electoral process is modeled on the system the French use, this is not simply like the USA system.
So they use a system which is a 2 part system.
In the first round of voting, the Islamic party was given a huge majority.
After the size of this majority was made known, those in power canceled the elections.
After which Islamic terrorism started to become ever more prevalent.
I do not condone Terrorism.
But in the instance of Algeria all pretense of Democratic convention was tossed overboard.
The Military is now in full control of this nation.

 

[kaya'08]

Kurdistan does not exist. The kurdish minority, mainly the extremist terrorist organization of the PKK believe a section of Turkey, going across the boarders of the turk-iraq boarder, and deeper into iraq, is Kurdistan (or at least should be established as a seperate nation). This is not the case. Somaliland is completely different.

 

[ludahai]

Laila already knows I am in her camp on this. I have been an advocate for Somaliland for years. I have regularly commented that recognition of Kosovo while Somaliland is not recognized is rank hypocrisy.

Somaliland would be a valuable ally in any anti-pirate effort or any long-term strategm to stabilize the Horn of Africa.

 

[ludahai]

China is getting interested in Somaliland, i read in some reports a while ago :/
We can't be beggers tho, if US refuse to help us. We must look to another country who will.
I may dislike it but if its get us recognition and money to protect our borders then China is most welcome even if i personally, wouldn't have liked to have that country controlling part of our economy.

I would be STUNNED if China recognized Somaliland. I think they may just try to get at the resources without extending recognition. It would be directly contrary to their policy of not recognizing successionst regimes. The same is true of Kosovo, Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

 

[ludahai]

Kurdistan does not exist. The kurdish minority, mainly the extremist terrorist organization of the PKK believe a section of Turkey, going across the boarders of the turk-iraq boarder, and deeper into iraq, is Kurdistan (or at least should be established as a seperate nation). This is not the case. Somaliland is completely different.

Kurdistan DOES exist, but as a ethno-linguistic region rather than as a political state.

 

[Laila]

I would be STUNNED if China recognized Somaliland. I think they may just try to get at the resources without extending recognition.

Oh so would i.
I'd be shocked if any country recognizes Somaliland, our resources are untouched. We know its there but no Government has ever made a move to try and harvest it.

 

[Laila]

Laila already knows I am in her camp on this. I have been an advocate for Somaliland for years. I have regularly commented that recognition of Kosovo while Somaliland is not recognized is rank hypocrisy.

Somaliland would be a valuable ally in any anti-pirate effort or any long-term strategm to stabilize the Horn of Africa.

I know you are <3

Hopefully the pirating will work to Somaliland's favour.
We police our seas, no hijacking has occured in Somaliland waters but rather Puntland and Somalia.
Its ridiculous Somalia is recognized when it has no Government and is a breeding ground for extremists but Somaliland is ignored because the west refuse to act without AU recognizing first.

Somaliland is unknown Ludahai, we don't have the publicity Kosovo has had. 20th Anniversary of Somaliland's independence pretty soon, i wonder how much longer we will be forced to wait.

 

[ludahai]

Somaliland is unknown Ludahai, we don't have the publicity Kosovo has had. 20th Anniversary of Somaliland's independence pretty soon, i wonder how much longer we will be forced to wait.

Almost no one in Taiwan has heard of it. I have been doing my part to at least inform people about it. I am also including something about it in two ESL books I am currently either working on or planning. One is due for publication in January.

 

[AuHtwoh64]

...I'd be shocked if any country recognizes Somaliland, our resources are untouched. We know its there but no Government has ever made a move to try and harvest it.

Laila, here are a couple of items which may provide some explanation.
If incoming President Obama doesn't focus entirely on US Domestic policy, which is entirely possible, hopefully he will advance and extend the policies begun by President Bush for Africa to include Somaliland.

The Somaliland Times - U.S. Foreign Policy Toward Somaliland Within The Context Of The Bush Administration’s War On Terrorism

washingtonpost.com -Bush Has Quietly Tripled Aid to Africa

...