If There Was A Different GOP Nominee

[the makeout hobo]

Let's imagine the republican race had gone differently. Huckabee translated his Iowa win into a South Carolina win into a super tuesday win... or Romney won Iowa and got some much needed momentum... or Guiliani actually campaigned in states not named Florida... or Fred Thompson actually wanted the job badly enough to work for it... or while we're playing with hypotheticals, Ron Paul's campaign got traction and he pulled off an upset victory. However it happened, imagine McCain wasn't the Republican nominee. How do you think other candidates would be doing about now?

 

[American]

Ron Paul could have torn Obama a new one on earmarks, the banking scandal, and social programs with undisputable credibility.

 

[new coup for you]

:lol: Yeah Ron Paul

 

[the makeout hobo]

Ron Paul could have torn Obama a new one on earmarks, the banking scandal, and social programs with undisputable credibility.

Then why didn't he gain any traction when running in his own party?

 

[American]

Look, don't bash me for my opinion, you asked for hypotheticals.

 

[the makeout hobo]

Look, don't bash me for my opinion, you asked for hypotheticals.

How am I bashing you? I'm just discussing your hypothetical. This is a debate site, after all. What's the harm of a little scrutiny. Personally, I think paul would be in bad shape right now, for a few reasons:

Firstly, I think a lot of people are blaming deregulation and not enough government in the market. That's one reason Obama is doing so well, and it's something that would work against Paul.

Secondly, Paul's beliefs failed to gain traction in his own party, where he rarely got more than about 10 percent. There is no reason to believe that they'd go better with independents and dems than republicans.

Thirdly, he's just kinda boring. I doubt many past the faithful would even care about him, especially against the charismatic Obama.

 

[Indy]

Wait! Damnit I submitted the wrong answers. I think Mit Romney would be winning but the rest would be loosing handidly. Romney would be doing great with this economy but the rest would be toast.

 

[the makeout hobo]

Wait! Damnit I submitted the wrong answers. I think Mit Romney would be winning but the rest would be loosing handidly. Romney would be doing great with this economy but the rest would be toast.

interesting. Why do you think Mitt would be doing so much better than anyone else, exactly?

My thoughts about Mitt right now... I think there's something of a backlash against "fat cats" and business investors of the like, as they're seen, fairly or unfairly, as complicit in the problems. I think Mitt would be a bit too much of an investor class type right now.

 

[American]

You're contradicting yourself. The premise was that Paul pulled off an upset. Therefore, it would be between Paul and Obama. Paul is strong on domestic issues, which is where Obama is ahead of McCain. So I think my points are valid.

 

[WI Crippler]

Out of the list, I think Huckabee would have the best shot. He's the only one with personality. I don't know that he'd be winning, and I'm not a Huckabee guy myself but thats my opinion.

 

[American]

None of them are winners, this is all "what if".

 

[the makeout hobo]

You're contradicting yourself. The premise was that Paul pulled off an upset. Therefore, it would be between Paul and Obama. Paul is strong on domestic issues, which is where Obama is ahead of McCain. So I think my points are valid.

How am I contridicting myself? Even if Paul had won the GOP nomination, he's still pro-lassaiz faire when lassaiz faire is seen as part of the problem, he still holds views at odds with the rest of the electorate, and he's still boring.

What makes Paul so strong on the economy? Knowlegable and strong are not the same thing.

 

[Indy]

interesting. Why do you think Mitt would be doing so much better than anyone else, exactly?

My thoughts about Mitt right now... I think there's something of a backlash against "fat cats" and business investors of the like, as they're seen, fairly or unfairly, as complicit in the problems. I think Mitt would be a bit too much of an investor class type right now.

Because I think most people would be either at my level of political understanding or less, based on the fact that most people don't spend time on political forums especially in non election years. Can we agree on that before I begin? With that in mind:

My impression of Mitt Romney is that he does a decent job of working across the aisles. From what I've seen of his time in Mass I think he did well. Everyone always talks about him being an economics powerhouse so I'd take them at their word unless he displayed the opposite to be true during the election cycle. He's Mormon which would hurt, but not much more than being black or a woman, maybe even less. Overall I don't really see him as more or less vicious than your typical run of the mill politician, and I would bet that he'd be even more civil due to his religion if he were running a national campaign.

All in all I like the guy. As an independent I don't think I'd be alone in thinking that. Honestly I would be FAR more comfortable with Mitt in the WH with a pledge to work with the Dems on a way to get their ideas passed but tweaked enough to make everyone happy, than Obama with a blank check. I like a majority of Obama's policies but am wary of having Dems in control of congress and the WH with such large majorities. I think McCain would be awful and would spend his time showboating and making "patriotic" speeches as pres, but I think Mitt would actually accomplish quite a bit. He'd go a long way of rebuilding the Republican brand, thus preventing the Dems from running unchecked for decades as the republicans rebuild their image. I also think that Mitt would do well to bring the Republican party more to the center rather than the shift right that we've seen lately.

Again, all of these are my opinions based on my impression of the guy. I'm sure if we'd had as long a time looking this closely at Mitt as we have at Obama or McCain then I may feel differently depending on what came to light.

 

[Kandahar]

None of them would be winning. I think any reasonably sane Democrat would beat any Republican this year.

I'm a firm believer that the particular candidates matter very little; it's the overall fundamentals of the political scene that determines who wins or loses. Simply looking at the incumbent president's approval rating has predicted the winner of the popular vote in every election since the beginning of polling, with the sole exception of 1960 (and that was very close).

A Republican victory in 2008 was simply never in the cards...regardless of who the candidates were.

 

[Hatuey]

None of them would be winning. I think any reasonably sane Democrat would beat any Republican this year.

I'm a firm believer that the particular candidates matter very little; it's the overall fundamentals of the political scene that determines who wins or loses. Simply looking at the incumbent president's approval rating has predicted the winner of the popular vote in every election since the beginning of polling, with the sole exception of 1960 (and that was very close).

A Republican victory in 2008 was simply never in the cards...regardless of who the candidates were.

Clinton left office with 65% approval ratings....Bush still got elected....

 

[Gibberish]

Clinton left office with 65% approval ratings....Bush still got elected....

By 5 electoral votes and -300,000 populace.

The problem with the 2000 election was the choices were crap. Gore vs Bill Bradley. The Democrats basically handed the Republicans the Presidency and Bush only snuck by on a technicality.

 

[Kandahar]

Clinton left office with 65% approval ratings....Bush still got elected....

Simply looking at the incumbent president's approval rating has predicted the winner of the popular vote in every election since the beginning of polling, with the sole exception of 1960 (and that was very close).

 

[the makeout hobo]

Alright Indy, I can see your point. Though one problem I think Mitt would have is that he'd be less able to distance himself from the brand. One reason McCain did so well until recently was that he wasn't identified with the Republican party. Why do you think every other word is Maverick? No one else in the race except maybe Guiliani would likely have been able to do that. And we all know it's a bad time to be a republican.

 

[Indy]

Alright Indy, I can see your point. Though one problem I think Mitt would have is that he'd be less able to distance himself from the brand. One reason McCain did so well until recently was that he wasn't identified with the Republican party. Why do you think every other word is Maverick? No one else in the race except maybe Guiliani would likely have been able to do that. And we all know it's a bad time to be a republican.

But I think that is one of John McCain's problems. He acts like a coward on the campaign trail. He runs from his brand, Mitt would stand and redefine it. McCain doesn't like to talk about the economy because its his weak spot, Mitt wouldn't run from his weak spot instead he'd read up on it and discuss with advisers in order to strengthen his position. McCain just hasn't put the effort in to win.

Mitt vs. Obama would be HUGE! Both very smart guys, young, reasonably good looking. They both seem like generally nice guys. The debates would be so in depth that Joe Sixpack wouldn't even know what they were talking about.

If Mitt were running I would again find myself as an undecided.

 

[Ikari]

Huckabee I think would end up losing, Giuliani I could only pray to whatever god(s) there may be that he would be losing (I'd take McCain over Giuliani any day of the week). Romney...it's real hard to say, but I could see him pulling out the win. I still don't have a good sense on his platform though, he wasn't very good at nailing down what it was that he believed in. Ron Paul, I think he had the best ideas and the best platform of them all. He could easily school Obama on all ways Constitutional.

 

[Indy]

Huckabee I think would end up losing, Giuliani I could only pray to whatever god(s) there may be that he would be losing (I'd take McCain over Giuliani any day of the week). Romney...it's real hard to say, but I could see him pulling out the win. I still don't have a good sense on his platform though, he wasn't very good at nailing down what it was that he believed in. Ron Paul, I think he had the best ideas and the best platform of them all. He could easily school Obama on all ways Constitutional.

I agree with all your assessments save one: Ron Paul. I looked into the guy and his policies, while some of them noble and good, just won't work 90% of the time. Wanting to dismantle the IRS only to create a nearly identical gov't program to replace it is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. He wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[Ikari]

Well to be fair, it's not that Paul would replace the IRS with something equivalent. He was trying to set up a different form of taxation, one which wouldn't require something like the IRS. But he had some radical ideas, that's for sure. He's very strict when it comes to the government obeying the Constitution and the will of the People. And that I liked. I like that he understands things from economics to foreign affairs/relations. I like that he's willing to let the People run their lives for themselves in total. Actions, reactions, and consequences...all ours to bear.

I do believe that against Obama, Paul would stand a great chance.

 

[Indy]

Well to be fair, it's not that Paul would replace the IRS with something equivalent. He was trying to set up a different form of taxation, one which wouldn't require something like the IRS. But he had some radical ideas, that's for sure. He's very strict when it comes to the government obeying the Constitution and the will of the People. And that I liked. I like that he understands things from economics to foreign affairs/relations. I like that he's willing to let the People run their lives for themselves in total. Actions, reactions, and consequences...all ours to bear.

I do believe that against Obama, Paul would stand a great chance.

Eh, I guess it depends on whether or not they'd be able to sell the IDEA of Ron Paul better than his opponent could sell the REALITY of his proposals. I think we agree here, I like the guy, I just think he needs to be toned down in order to appeal to a prime time audience. A Ron Paul Light if you will.