If there is no gun show loophole… then this shouldn’t be a problem (1 Viewer)

[rahl]

So what role did these variables play?

"... over-harsh criminal justice policies, particularly increased incarceration, which rose even more dramatically over the same period, were not the main drivers of the crime decline.

More important were various social, economic, and environmental factors, such as growth in income and an aging population. The introduction of CompStat, a data-driven policing technique, also played a significant role in reducing crime in cities that introduced it."

What Caused the Crime Decline?

Crime declined dramatically nationwide over the past two decades. We reviewed more than 40 years of data from all 50 states and the 50 largest cities to determine why.

www.brennancenter.org

So does this all mean that we should not be looking at any other variable now to try to reduce the crime rates further?

I’m simply refuting your claim. More guns does not equal more violent crime/homicides.

 

[ataraxia]

I’m simply refuting your claim.

You're not.

More guns does not equal more violent crime/homicides.

The math says it does. I thought you liked math.

 

[rahl]

You're not.

Of course I am. You said more guns = more homicides. That is demonstrably false. Because gun s went up and homicides went down.

The math says it does. I thought you liked math.

No it doesn’t. Guns went up, homicides went down. Your claim remains refuted.

 

[ataraxia]

Of course I am. You said more guns = more homicides. That is demonstrably false. Because gun s went up and homicides went down.

No it doesn’t. Guns went up, homicides went down. Your claim remains refuted.

Only if you keep the math at 1st grade level. You know statistics is a big field, right?

 

[rahl]

Only if you keep the math at 1st grade level. You know statistics is a big field, right?

No, math doesn’t change based on age or school year. Guns increased, homicides decreased. That is math. Your claim that guns increased and homicides increased remains demonstrably false.

 

[ataraxia]

No, math doesn’t change based on age or school year.

It does when you are unsophisticated enough to look beyond only two variables.

 

[rahl]

It does when you are unsophisticated enough to look beyond only two variables.

Your claim. “More guns = more homicides”. The facts “guns went up, homicides went down”. Your claim remains demonstrably false.

 

[ataraxia]

The facts “guns went up, homicides went down”. Your claim remains demonstrably false.

Then clearly the claim "more food, better health" must always be true. Hey I like this math stuff! It's so simple and easy!

 

[rahl]

Then clearly the claim "more food, better health" must always be true. Hey I like this math stuff! It's so simple and easy!

I’m sorry that you made a demonstrably false claim and had it swiftly refuted. But you have to be used to it by now. It happens so frequently.

The facts remain. Your claim “more gun = more homicides” is factually incorrect.

 

[CLAX1911]

You're not.


The math says it does. I thought you liked math.

No it doesn't. If the math said it does there would be a lot more crimes at gun shows and gun stores and gun ranges and armories there's not.

Besides you're ignoring the majority of the people that get killed it's not necessarily a crime it's suicide.

More guns does not lead to more depression because that math doesn't math.

More guns does not lead to more gangbangers so that math doesn't math. So this is 98% of people killed via gun.

If you can't show that more guns equal more gangsters or more violence among the gangsters or more depression leading to suicide then the math doesn't math. Sorry.

 

[Bullseye]

In gun control discussions, we often hear about how there is no loophole in gun sales to criminals.

So if it doesn’t exist, then this shouldn’t be a problem, should it?

Biden administration closing 'gun show loophole'

The Biden administration on Thursday announced they are closing what is often known as the "gun show loophole."

abcnews.go.com

Many states require a background check for sales at gun shows.

 

[ataraxia]

If you can't show that more guns equal more gangsters or more violence among the gangsters

Who said I can’t?

“researchers attribute the increasingly violent nature of gangs to the increased availability of firearms. 6 Gang members today have access to an extremely sophisticated arsenal of weaponry.”

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6848&context=jclc#:~:text=Several%20researchers%20attribute%20the%20increasingly,extremely%20sophisticated%20arsenal%20of%20weaponry.

Sorry.

 

[ataraxia]

Many states require a background check for sales at gun shows.

Then you got nothing to worry about.

 

[RF667799]

Who said I can’t?

“researchers attribute the increasingly violent nature of gangs to the increased availability of firearms. 6 Gang members today have access to an extremely sophisticated arsenal of weaponry.”

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6848&context=jclc#:~:text=Several%20researchers%20attribute%20the%20increasingly,extremely%20sophisticated%20arsenal%20of%20weaponry.

Sorry.

Guns make them violent? It's "in their nature" to be violent, and somehow guns are responsible for that?

By what mechanism do guns cause someone to be violent.

BTW, nice how you started your quote with "researchers attribute..."

It sounds impressive, as if perhaps it's a near monolithic bloc of them.

But what your source said was: "several researchers..."

 

[RF667799]

Then you got nothing to worry about.

It appears this isn't confined to just background checks.

You have nothing to worry about either, since you don't support background checks.

 

[CLAX1911]

Who said I can’t?

“researchers attribute the increasingly violent nature of gangs to the increased availability of firearms.

Increased availability from when

6 Gang members today have access to an extremely sophisticated arsenal of weaponry.”

As opposed to what yesterday? What kind of guns were invented recently that didn't exist 100 years ago?

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6848&context=jclc#:~:text=Several%20researchers%20attribute%20the%20increasingly,extremely%20sophisticated%20arsenal%20of%20weaponry.

Sorry.

Your claims are arbitrary and pointless answer my questions before I read any sources.

You seem to be comparing now to some time in the past and I didn't know when that is. So clear it up.

 

[ataraxia]

It appears this isn't confined to just background checks.

So what part of it bothers you?

You have nothing to worry about either, since you don't support background checks.

I don’t?

 

[ataraxia]

Increased availability from when

As opposed to what yesterday? What kind of guns were invented recently that didn't exist 100 years ago?

Your claims are arbitrary and pointless answer my questions before I read any sources.

You seem to be comparing now to some time in the past and I didn't know when that is. So clear it up.

I cant read for you.

 

[ataraxia]

Guns make them violent? It's "in their nature" to be violent, and somehow guns are responsible for that?

Well then you should have no problems with nuclear proliferation- because it’s not about the weapons- it’s only about violent people.

Right?

By what mechanism do guns cause someone to be violent.

Same one as nukes n the hands of ISIS.

BTW, nice how you started your quote with "researchers attribute..."

It sounds impressive, as if perhaps it's a near monolithic bloc of them.

Then surely you can find some that say the reverse.

 

[RF667799]

Well then you should have no problems with nuclear proliferation- because it’s not about the weapons- it’s only about violent people.

Right?

Same one as nukes n the hands of ISIS.

Nukes make ISIS violent? You should just concentrate on explaining the mechanism by which guns supposedly make someone violent, instead of pivoting hard to your standard deflection.

Then surely you can find some that say the reverse.

A study that proves a negative?

Why did you edit out the part of my post explaining your creative edit of your reference?

 

[RF667799]

So what part of it bothers you?

It looks like it does open the door to requiring a license for any private sale of a gun.

I don’t?

You don't.

 

[NWRatCon]

Well....this is awkward:

ATF Firearm Trafficking Report: Licensed Retailers Aren’t the Problem

ATF released a report that‘s been years in the making and the stark reality is that the Biden administration’s admonishments of the firearm industry are entirely off target.

www.nssf.org

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) released a report that‘s been years in the making and the stark reality is that the Biden administration’s admonishments of the firearm industry are entirely off target.

The ATF released Volume Three of the National Firearms Commerce and Trafficking Assessment. The report is the first the ATF has published since 2000 and focused specifically on 9,700 ATF firearm trafficking investigations between 2017 and 2021. The report clearly demonstrates that for all the political bluster by the Biden administration about “rogue dealers” and the “zero-tolerance” policy by the ATF, the firearm industry isn’t the problem.

The ATF’s report found just 136 cases of illegal firearm trafficking tied to a federal firearms licensee (FFL) over a five year period. That’s just 1.6 percent of all 9,700 cases. To put that into more specific perspective, there were 134,516 federal firearms licensees (FFLs) at the end of 2021. That equates to just 0.1 percent of all FFLs being implicated in allegedly illegal firearm trafficking before President Joe Biden instituted his whole-of-government crackdown on the firearm industry.

National Firearms Commerce and Trafficking Assessment (NFCTA): Firearms Trafficking Investigations - Volume Three | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

ATF Firearms Trace Data Disclaimer Firearm traces are designed to assist law enforcement authorities in conducting investigations by tracking the sale and possession of specific firearms. Law enforcement agencies may request firearms traces for any investigative reason, and those reasons are not...

www.atf.gov

Seems ol Joe is a bit off the mark; it completely contradicts his "selling points"...how will his handlers spin this?

Never took a statistics course, didya? Or logic? Wow. What idiotic crap. Did you think about it while reading that editorial? I'll bet you love TEMU.

 

[RF667799]

Never took a statistics course, didya? Or logic? Wow. What idiotic crap. Did you think about it while reading that editorial? I'll bet you love TEMU.

Personal attack, and regrettably you left out the part where you substantially refuted stuff.

I'm sure you intended to include it.

 

[CLAX1911]

I cant read for you.

It's okay the prevalence of guns does not create gangsters no that's the stupidest argument you've ever made.

 

[ataraxia]

It's okay the prevalence of guns does not create gangsters no that's the stupidest argument you've ever made.

No, it just empowers them to do what they do- more efficiently and effectively.