If someone has a face mask on, will not identify themselves, and states they are from ICE should you assume they actually are?

[Slartibartfast]

Here in the US, we have a legal right to defend ourselves against kidnappers and right now ICE's practices are yielding a huge opportunity for people to act as if they are part of ICE and kidnap people. Given the ambiguity that ICE is creating, should the assumption be that these people are legitimately part of law enforcement?

 

[Napoleon]

I don’t know if surprised is the right word for how I feel about the fact that plain-clothes individuals with no visible bonafides are abducting people off the street in broad daylight and nobody does anything except maybe rubberneck. I think the question is what would you do if you see that?

 

[Visbek]

ICE agents are required by DHS policy to identify themselves.

Of course, lots of ICE agents are apparently violating that policy.

So yes, if they refuse to identify themselves, you should not assume they are legit.

Know your rights.

Red Cards / Tarjetas Rojas | Immigrant Legal Resource Center | ILRC

All people in the United States, regardless of immigration status, have certain rights and protections under the U.S. Constitution. The ILRC’s Red Cards help people assert their rights and defend themselves in many situations, such as when ICE agents go to a home. Special thanks to our many...

www.ilrc.org

 

[bongsaway]

Here in the US, we have a legal right to defend ourselves against kidnappers and right now ICE's practices are yielding a huge opportunity for people to act as if they are part of ICE and kidnap people. Given the ambiguity that ICE is creating, should the assumption be that these people are legitimately part of law enforcement?

I'm starting to look at ICE like the KKK.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Here in the US, we have a legal right to defend ourselves against kidnappers and right now ICE's practices are yielding a huge opportunity for people to act as if they are part of ICE and kidnap people. Given the ambiguity that ICE is creating, should the assumption be that these people are legitimately part of law enforcement?

They should be presenting a badge, at minimum, to those they are taking into custody. I don't see the panic about masks, as if you'd recognize them as ICE agents if only you could see their faces. They are not required to identify themselves to any and every goon who walks up and demands to know what they're doing, why, where they're taking the person, and to see a warrant.

 

[Napoleon]

They should be presenting a badge, at minimum, to those they are taking into custody. I don't see the panic about masks, as if you'd recognize them as ICE agents if only you could see their faces. They are not required to identify themselves to any and every goon who walks up and demands to know what they're doing, why, where they're taking the person, and to see a warrant.

All of that is true - however, there are plain clothes ICE agents with no known bonafides on their person bundling people into unmarked vehicles and taking them away. Legal or not (and I question whether it is) the optics of that are a problem and sooner or later they’re going to put their hands on the wrong person.

 

[Hatuey]

ICE is turning the country into Argentina and they won't all get pardons when Trump leaves office.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

All of that is true - however, there are plain clothes ICE agents with no known bonafides on their person bundling people into unmarked vehicles and taking them away.

I'm skeptical of this. I'm sure there are people to whom some agents declined to show a badge, but those people are the ones telling the story and, obviously, not the ones being detained. Agents are not obliged to whip out their tin on demand, particularly when they are in the middle of an apprehension.

Legal or not (and I question whether it is) the optics of that are a problem and sooner or later they’re going to put their hands on the wrong person.

I'm sure they are aware of this, and this is the chief reason I'm skeptical of the claims in the first place.

 

[Mika-El]

The excuse of ICE being masked to protect their identity does not and can not excuse there not having visual ICE identification including a badge no.

The use of the mask combined with no visible markings is unacceptable. You will note in LA some masked ICE used ICE vests but others did not and this adds to the trauma and terror in an armed country with so many shootings.

Standard enforcement procedures require some sort of identification during a physical enforcement action. Even undercover officers must show id once they commit to an action where possible. Obviously not in the heat of self defence but when it is safe to do so and certainly before a forced arrest.

Stephen Miller is an idiot. He tried to argue the masks and lack of markings were to protect personal identity. Personal identity is one thing-agency identity is another and he knows that as a lawyer.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

I'm starting to look at ICE like the KKK.

Proud boys/KKK pretty close to same thing.

 

[antiquity]

I'm starting to look at ICE like the KKK.

Yeah!!! the KKK....founded by the democrats after the civil war and Robert Byrd, one of the prominent member of the democrat party was a leader of the KKK. The KKK who prayed on blacks and hung many just because they were black. A member of 'restore the South and southern slavery' shot Abe Lincoln. Democrats calling ICE the new KKK is hypocritical as they have a lot of trash to throw out.

 

[Lursa]

Everyone keeps posting about this. What can you actually do about it? What if they just break the door down anyway? Go around the back?

What if you're getting in your car? Already in your car (we've seen this scenario many times already)

At work? On the street? They're just grabbing people while they're saying they have ID, asking for ID, etc.

We see them accosting people and dragging them away. In chaos. And that chaos is intentional...it's harder to interpret body cams and video footage, understand what's being said, identify individual movements (assault), easier to claim resisting arrest, intimidate onlookers from interfering, etc etc etc. I used to lead conflict and mediation resolution training when I was a park ranger. Professionals "learn" to perform in that noise, shouting, movement, chaos...but it intentionally confuses and intimidates the suspects.

 

[antiquity]

ICE is turning the country into Argentina and they won't all get pardons when Trump leaves office.

If a ICE agent can't wear a mask I have to ask these questions....why do demonstrators wear mask? Easy answer they don't want to be recognized and should they be required to remove them when attend a protest rally? Most rally attendees don't wear mask because they don't cause mayhem and damage.
ICE wear mask, so violent protester won't target them and their families just as some protesters target politicians who they don't agree with..

 

[Hatuey]

If a ICE agent can't wear a mask I have to ask these questions....why do demonstrators wear mask?

Demonstrators are not law enforcement agents accountable to the US tax payer, unlike ICE.

Next stupid question?

 

[Rogue Valley]

 

[Stealers Wheel]

I'm skeptical of this. I'm sure there are people to whom some agents declined to show a badge, but those people are the ones telling the story and, obviously, not the ones being detained. Agents are not obliged to whip out their tin on demand, particularly when they are in the middle of an apprehension.


I'm sure they are aware of this, and this is the chief reason I'm skeptical of the claims in the first place.

Funny thing, neither are common criminal kidnappers.

So, how do you tell the difference? Do you have to wait to see where they take you? If they take you to a jail of some sort, ok. If they take you to a remote cabin in the mountains where they rape and torture you, then you'll probably have an idea they weren't ICE agents.

Just need to be patient, wait and see, right?

 

[bongsaway]

Yeah!!! the KKK....founded by the democrats after the civil war and Robert Byrd, one of the prominent member of the democrat party was a leader of the KKK. The KKK who prayed on blacks and hung many just because they were black. A member of 'restore the South and southern slavery' shot Abe Lincoln. Democrats calling ICE the new KKK is hypocritical as they have a lot of trash to throw out.

And you left out the part where Johnson, back in the sixties got the civil rights bill passed and told the southern Democrats to take a hike, they were no longer welcome and the void was filled with southern wasps who were all for keeping the black folks down on the farm. I mean their farms.

 

[Absentglare]

Here in the US, we have a legal right to defend ourselves against kidnappers and right now ICE's practices are yielding a huge opportunity for people to act as if they are part of ICE and kidnap people. Given the ambiguity that ICE is creating, should the assumption be that these people are legitimately part of law enforcement?

If they do not identify themselves, call 911 and tell them you believe someone is impersonating law enforcement.

 

[Allan]

They should be presenting a badge, at minimum

Remember the Minnesota shooter had a badge.

I'd want to see the proper ID.

Now that won't guarantee that the ICE officer is legit. People have acquired fake IDs...

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ktla.com

 

[Jason Warfield]

Yeah!!! the KKK....founded by the democrats after the civil war and Robert Byrd, one of the prominent member of the democrat party was a leader of the KKK. The KKK who prayed on blacks and hung many just because they were black. A member of 'restore the South and southern slavery' shot Abe Lincoln. Democrats calling ICE the new KKK is hypocritical as they have a lot of trash to throw out.

If you are going to use history for your position then you shouldn’t cherry pick what looks good for you. Here’s what you left out:

As the 50’s came to a close, the DNC was at a crossroads: the Dixiecrats (as you described them) were at odds with the other half of the party that were for civil rights for minorities. The GOP were frustrated S they were losing a lot not elections.

Nixon, seeing the Dixiecrats at odds with their own party, created what is historically known as the Southern Strategy. This was a series of targeted ads in southern elections that were designed to show the Dixiecrats what a world were minorities had equal rights: black men raping white women with impunity, white men becoming second class citizens, etc. After three years or so…it worked.

The Dixiecrats left the DNC and joined the Republican Party.

So, now YOU have to justify the fact that the GOP took on racists within the party. You want to bash the DNC for having had the racists in the party? Ok, go ahead, but….

You are going to have to come to terms that the DNC were fine in losing them to pursue civil rights…and that conservatives made a concerted effort to take those racists into the fold.

So, how do you stand on that?

 

[bomberfox]

The excuse of ICE being masked to protect their identity does not and can not excuse there not having visual ICE identification including a badge no.

The use of the mask combined with no visible markings is unacceptable. You will note in LA some masked ICE used ICE vests but others did not and this adds to the trauma and terror in an armed country with so many shootings.

Standard enforcement procedures require some sort of identification during a physical enforcement action. Even undercover officers must show id once they commit to an action where possible. Obviously not in the heat of self defence but when it is safe to do so and certainly before a forced arrest.

Stephen Miller is an idiot. He tried to argue the masks and lack of markings were to protect personal identity. Personal identity is one thing-agency identity is another and he knows that as a lawyer.

Its why we call him peewee german.

 

[Jason Warfield]

Just remember folks, the asshole that assassinated those Democrats was impersonating a cop.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Serial rapists must be rejoicing right now.

 

[bomberfox]

**** it lets dox some ice agents. Im all for it.

 

[AJG]

Yeah!!! the KKK....founded by the democrats after the civil war and Robert Byrd, one of the prominent member of the democrat party was a leader of the KKK. The KKK who prayed on blacks and hung many just because they were black. A member of 'restore the South and southern slavery' shot Abe Lincoln. Democrats calling ICE the new KKK is hypocritical as they have a lot of trash to throw out.

This is equivalent to blaming someone for something their great-great-great-great grand parents did. The Democrats of today having nothing to do with what happened during the civil war.