If Republicans Are So Popular, Why Do They Have To Gerrymander And Suppress Voting?

[j brown's body]

Republicans have this crazy idea that they are the majority. They want so badly to think everyone agrees with them.

But the reality is they would have far less power and control without rigging districts and elections in their favor.

Some of those voting districts created by Republicans have ridiculous shapes.

And how many times do we see huge long voting lines in poor districts? Has anybody ever seen a long line of rich people waiting to vote?

If all of this rigging of democracy instantly vanished Republican power and control would be greatly diminished.

And what about that move by O'Connell to stack the Supreme Court? 9 months out, he refused to even convene a hearing for President Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland to the SCOTUS, purely on a very flaky procedural quirk, completely ignoring the Constitution, and then when the tables are turned he rushes Amy Coney Barrett through 90 days prior to the election that tossed Trump out of office.

Is cheating an integral part of Republican power?

How can they live with themselves?

Republicans are the party of big money pushing it's weight around even though the Constitution says we are a nation of equals. Republicans are the party of the rich controlling everything. Isn't it enough for rich people to be richer than everyone else? Why do they have to oppress the rest and force their way on others? The practices of Republicans are deplorable.

They are totally fooling themselves when they think they are the majority. The thing that gives the Republican party power is money, not popular support.

Republicans are fooling themselves if they think they really are the majority. They are the party of the selfish insecure rich; and anyone they can fool into thinking these rich people have their back.

Because, and they have made this clear, they do not consider citizens who do not vote for them to be real Americans. They are a danger to the country and their participation in the democratic process must be thwarted any way possible.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

California isn’t “overrepresented” by democrats anymore than Wyoming is “overrepresented” by Republicans.

Both states representatives accurately reflect the political leanings of their residents.

Comparing the biggest state with the smallest is just dumb. Surely you're aware that Wyoming has 100% R representation in the House, because it only has one member?

California's system means that in blue districts, sometimes the top two advancing to the general election are both Democrats. This only matters because it suppresses the national popular vote for Republicans.

In 2022, Democrats got 63.4% of the US House popular vote in California. For that they were rewarded with 76.9% of the House seats. Whether that's fair or not, it is literally over-representation.

 

[j brown's body]

Republicans won the popular vote in the House, in 2022. They actually won it by more than the 222 majority they got in the House.

Which may be attributed to turn out. For instance, whites voted more heavily than blacks and Hispanics.

 

[Perotista]

Republicans have this crazy idea that they are the majority. They want so badly to think everyone agrees with them.

But the reality is they would have far less power and control without rigging districts and elections in their favor.

Some of those voting districts created by Republicans have ridiculous shapes.

And how many times do we see huge long voting lines in poor districts? Has anybody ever seen a long line of rich people waiting to vote?

If all of this rigging of democracy instantly vanished Republican power and control would be greatly diminished.

And what about that move by O'Connell to stack the Supreme Court? 9 months out, he refused to even convene a hearing for President Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland to the SCOTUS, purely on a very flaky procedural quirk, completely ignoring the Constitution, and then when the tables are turned he rushes Amy Coney Barrett through 90 days prior to the election that tossed Trump out of office.

Is cheating an integral part of Republican power?

How can they live with themselves?

Republicans are the party of big money pushing it's weight around even though the Constitution says we are a nation of equals. Republicans are the party of the rich controlling everything. Isn't it enough for rich people to be richer than everyone else? Why do they have to oppress the rest and force their way on others? The practices of Republicans are deplorable.

They are totally fooling themselves when they think they are the majority. The thing that gives the Republican party power is money, not popular support.

Republicans are fooling themselves if they think they really are the majority. They are the party of the selfish insecure rich; and anyone they can fool into thinking these rich people have their back.

The truth is both major parties are unpopular. 53% of all Americans view the Democratic negatively or unfavorably to include 63% of the non-affiliated, less to non-partisan swing voters, better known as independents. 57% of all Americans view the Republican party unfavorably, negatively which is a bit worse than the democrats, but with 61% of independents having a negative view of the GOP, that slightly better than the democrats. Question 12A and 12B. Perhaps one should ask, why are both major parties viewed negatively or unpopular?

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/eqlqwyoypg/econTabReport.pdf

You can look at the candidate they’re about to run. Most Americans, 63% don’t want Biden to run again, 57% don’t want Trump to run again either. Questions 13 and 14 poll above. So both major parties are planning on running bum candidates that most Americans don’t want nothing to do with. This shows up in the head to head matchup which is basically a tie between Biden and Trump considering the MOE of plus or minus 3 points.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2024 - General Election: Trump vs. Biden

RealClearPolitics - Election 2024 - General Election: Trump vs. Biden

www.realclearpolitics.com

It’s true, the democratic party was a bit more popular in 2020 as Biden beat Trump 81,283,501 votes, 51.3% to 74,223,975 46.8%. But in 2022 in the house elections, Republicans gained that slight edge in popularity, Republican congressional candidates 54,506,136, 50/6% to 51,477,313 47.8% for the democratic congressional candidates. Today, there’s not much difference in how all Americans view Biden and Trump, Biden 40.2% favorable, 54.6% unfavorable vs. Trump 38.4% favorable, 56.9% unfavorable.

RealClearPolitics - Favorability Ratings: Political Leaders

RealClearPolitics - Favorability Ratings: Political Leaders

www.realclearpolitics.com

Face it, neither major is liked nor are they seen in a positive light. One can say with accuracy, both are unpopular. The only ones who view the major parties favorably are each major party’s base which is shrinking while independents are rising as defectors from both major parties depart them. Independents has risen from 30% of the electorate in 2006 to 45% today. All at the expense of both major parties..

 

[NuffSaid]

Republicans know they aren’t popular and they try and force their minority views on the majority.

 

[j brown's body]

The truth is both major parties are unpopular. 53% of all Americans view the Democratic negatively or unfavorably to include 63% of the non-affiliated, less to non-partisan swing voters, better known as independents. 57% of all Americans view the Republican party unfavorably, negatively which is a bit worse than the democrats, but with 61% of independents having a negative view of the GOP, that slightly better than the democrats. Question 12A and 12B. Perhaps one should ask, why are both major parties viewed negatively or unpopular?

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/eqlqwyoypg/econTabReport.pdf

You can look at the candidate they’re about to run. Most Americans, 63% don’t want Biden to run again, 57% don’t want Trump to run again either. Questions 13 and 14 poll above. So both major parties are planning on running bum candidates that most Americans don’t want nothing to do with. This shows up in the head to head matchup which is basically a tie between Biden and Trump considering the MOE of plus or minus 3 points.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2024 - General Election: Trump vs. Biden

RealClearPolitics - Election 2024 - General Election: Trump vs. Biden

www.realclearpolitics.com

It’s true, the democratic party was a bit more popular in 2020 as Biden beat Trump 81,283,501 votes, 51.3% to 74,223,975 46.8%. But in 2022 in the house elections, Republicans gained that slight edge in popularity, Republican congressional candidates 54,506,136, 50/6% to 51,477,313 47.8% for the democratic congressional candidates. Today, there’s not much difference in how all Americans view Biden and Trump, Biden 40.2% favorable, 54.6% unfavorable vs. Trump 38.4% favorable, 56.9% unfavorable.

RealClearPolitics - Favorability Ratings: Political Leaders

RealClearPolitics - Favorability Ratings: Political Leaders

www.realclearpolitics.com

Face it, neither major is liked nor are they seen in a positive light. One can say with accuracy, both are unpopular. The only ones who view the major parties favorably are each major party’s base which is shrinking while independents are rising as defectors from both major parties depart them. Independents has risen from 30% of the electorate in 2006 to 45% today. All at the expense of both major parties..

I think most independents tend to vote regularly for one party or the other.

They're free riders. They don't want to get involved in a party, and who has time, really, but they'll complain about them and then fall into line.

Those who vote third party are simply helping to elect the candidate they like the least.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

Those who vote third party are simply helping to elect the candidate they like the least.

No they're not, any more than non-voters are. Also remember Alaska, where there's ranked choice and no vote is wasted.

 

[Nickyjo]

Republicans have this crazy idea that they are the majority. They want so badly to think everyone agrees with them.

But the reality is they would have far less power and control without rigging districts and elections in their favor.

Some of those voting districts created by Republicans have ridiculous shapes.

And how many times do we see huge long voting lines in poor districts? Has anybody ever seen a long line of rich people waiting to vote?

If all of this rigging of democracy instantly vanished Republican power and control would be greatly diminished.

And what about that move by O'Connell to stack the Supreme Court? 9 months out, he refused to even convene a hearing for President Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland to the SCOTUS, purely on a very flaky procedural quirk, completely ignoring the Constitution, and then when the tables are turned he rushes Amy Coney Barrett through 90 days prior to the election that tossed Trump out of office.

Is cheating an integral part of Republican power?

How can they live with themselves?

Republicans are the party of big money pushing it's weight around even though the Constitution says we are a nation of equals. Republicans are the party of the rich controlling everything. Isn't it enough for rich people to be richer than everyone else? Why do they have to oppress the rest and force their way on others? The practices of Republicans are deplorable.

They are totally fooling themselves when they think they are the majority. The thing that gives the Republican party power is money, not popular support.

Republicans are fooling themselves if they think they really are the majority. They are the party of the selfish insecure rich; and anyone they can fool into thinking these rich people have their back.

I think and repeat that voter suppression measures, voter ID laws, shorter voting times pushed by the GOP are a sign of their recognition of changing US demographics. One portion of the party realized that in 2012, and wanted to correct that by reaching out to a more diverse America, but that has been successfully (hopefully only temporarily) delayed by Trump’s repeated claims of election fraud. As he himself said, with very high levels of turnout “you’d never have a republican elected again.” Hence the admission or hope by some in the GOP that voter ID laws will give them an edge.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Comparing the biggest state with the smallest is just dumb. Surely you're aware that Wyoming has 100% R representation in the House, because it only has one member?

“Dumb” is confusing population totals with proportionality of political viewpoints/voting.

California's system means that in blue districts, sometimes the top two advancing to the general election are both Democrats. This only matters because it suppresses the national popular vote for Republicans.

Complete nonsense.

First, California does not use the rank choice system for electing federal officials. Every election includes a D and an R candidate.

Second, it is literally impossible to suppress the national popular, which is nothing more than the total count of votes received by Presidential candidates.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

I think and repeat that voter suppression measures, voter ID laws, shorter voting times pushed by the GOP are a sign of their recognition of changing US demographics. One portion of the party realized that in 2012, and wanted to correct that by reaching out to a more diverse America, but that has been successfully (hopefully only temporarily) delayed by Trump’s repeated claims of election fraud. As he himself said, with very high levels of turnout “you’d never have a republican elected again.” Hence the admission or hope by some in the GOP that voter ID laws will give them an edge.

Ironically, the people least likely to already have photo ID are elders. Expect to see "voter registration drives" around the nursing homes, except because it's photo ID that makes it OK. Not like those infamous Democrat voter registration drives ...

 

[ClaraD]

Republicans have this crazy idea that they are the majority. They want so badly to think everyone agrees with them.

But the reality is they would have far less power and control without rigging districts and elections in their favor.

Some of those voting districts created by Republicans have ridiculous shapes.

And how many times do we see huge long voting lines in poor districts? Has anybody ever seen a long line of rich people waiting to vote?

If all of this rigging of democracy instantly vanished Republican power and control would be greatly diminished.

And what about that move by O'Connell to stack the Supreme Court? 9 months out, he refused to even convene a hearing for President Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland to the SCOTUS, purely on a very flaky procedural quirk, completely ignoring the Constitution, and then when the tables are turned he rushes Amy Coney Barrett through 90 days prior to the election that tossed Trump out of office.

Is cheating an integral part of Republican power?

How can they live with themselves?

Republicans are the party of big money pushing it's weight around even though the Constitution says we are a nation of equals. Republicans are the party of the rich controlling everything. Isn't it enough for rich people to be richer than everyone else? Why do they have to oppress the rest and force their way on others? The practices of Republicans are deplorable.

They are totally fooling themselves when they think they are the majority. The thing that gives the Republican party power is money, not popular support.

Republicans are fooling themselves if they think they really are the majority. They are the party of the selfish insecure rich; and anyone they can fool into thinking these rich people have their back.

that is my question too....a person should be able to vote anywhere in the state and in any fashion they decide...if it is at the poll or via mail in vote...I would favor a system where a person can vote from their home on a computer.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

“Dumb” is confusing population totals with proportionality of political viewpoints/voting.

Complete nonsense.

First, California does not use the rank choice system for electing federal officials. Every election includes a D and an R.

False. California 29th for instance, was a runoff between two Democrats.

Second, it is literally impossible to suppress the national popular, which is nothing more than the total count of votes received by Presidential candidates.

I have been talking about the House popular vote. Because Democrats can't be bothered contesting seats (more than Republicans do) they suppress their own House popular vote.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

“Dumb” is confusing population totals with proportionality of political viewpoints/voting.

Since you didn’t respond to my above, I’ll take it as an acknowledgment of your error in confusing two different measures.

False. California 29th for instance, was a runoff between two Democrats.

I stand corrected. CA does use a “top two” system in primaries in determining which two candidates, regardless of party affiliation, will advance to the General.

I have been talking about the House popular vote. Because Democrats can't be bothered contesting seats (more than Republicans do) they suppress their own House popular vote.

So your previous comment was a slip of the tongue. Got it.

national popular

 

[Peacenik]

Republicans won the popular vote in the House, in 2022. They actually won it by more than the 222 majority they got in the House.

It was a mid term. That usually goes to the party not in the white house because Americans are so poorly informed they tend to blame the president for everything bad. Democrats won bigger in 2018.

 

[Perotista]

I think most independents tend to vote regularly for one party or the other.

They're free riders. They don't want to get involved in a party, and who has time, really, but they'll complain about them and then fall into line.

Those who vote third party are simply helping to elect the candidate they like the least.

I’d say for the most part, you’re correct. Here’s how Gallup breaks down the parties. 25% of the electorate are the Republican Base, 26% the Democratic base, 47% state they’re independents. Independents are broken down into three groups, independents lean democratic 18% of the electorate or 38% of self-identified independents. Independents lean republican 17% of the electorate or 36% of self-identified independents. The rest are classified as pure or true independents with no leans, 26% of independents or 14% of the electorate. These figures are as of 23 Aug 2023. They’re very dynamic and change constantly.

Party Affiliation

In politics, as of today, do you consider yourself a Republican, a Democrat, or an Independent? (Asked of independents: As of today, do you lean more to the Democratic Party or the Republican Party?)

news.gallup.com

I’d say most of those who have left the two major parties are independents who lean toward the party they left. But the voting habits change. Whereas history shows the base of both parties vote on average 94% for the candidates of their party, the leans toward a party drops down to 74% since 2000. Pure or true independents are impossible to figure out or to place an average on as they swing wildly back and forth to include a lot voting for third party candidates. A prime example of this is in 2016 while 6% of the electorate voted third patty, 12% of independents did so. In 2020 1.8% of the electorate voted third party, but 5% of independents did so. Independents are far more likely to stay home and not vote when they dislike both major party candidates whether than choose between them. Voter turnout for 2016, another election where both major party candidates were disliked and unwanted using VAP was 54%. Voting turnout for 2020 was 62%. The difference in voter turnout was Clinton winning the popular vote by 2.8 million vs. Biden winning the popular vote by 7.1 million. That difference in turnout caused Clinton to lose Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania whereas Biden won those 4 states. The third-party vote in those states was high in 2016, low in 2020. Michigan 6% voted third party in 2016 vs. 1.5% in 2020. Pennsylvania 5% in 2016 vs. 1.3% in 2020, Wisconsin 6.4% in 2016, 1.7% in 2020. All those states decided by less than a single percentage point. The third-party vote was crucial.

The above being said, I fear 2024 will be more like 2016 than 2020. Both Biden and Trump are disliked and unwanted to become the next president by approximately 60% of all Americans. That right close to the figures Clinton and Trump had in 2016 when both were highly disliked and unwanted, voter turnout was low and third party voters high.

 

[vanceen]

Congratulations to ug make hammer for insisting on facts in this thread.

Gerrymandering is a bad practice, whoever does it the most. It wouldn't be difficult to devise criteria to be used in every state that would rationally allocate districts by population.

However, that would never be accepted, because it would inevitably break up some "historically" ethnic districts. And by Supreme Court ruling, these are sacrosanct.

 

[Peacenik]

Because, and they have made this clear, they do not consider citizens who do not vote for them to be real Americans. They are a danger to the country and their participation in the democratic process must be thwarted any way possible.

Agree.

 

[Peacenik]

I think most independents tend to vote regularly for one party or the other.

They're free riders. They don't want to get involved in a party, and who has time, really, but they'll complain about them and then fall into line.

Those who vote third party are simply helping to elect the candidate they like the least.

Those who cannot find the time to be well informed get out of the government everything they put into it.

The super-rich who put so much funding into controlling public opinion are getting the best government their money can buy.

 

[Peacenik]

No they're not, any more than non-voters are. Also remember Alaska, where there's ranked choice and no vote is wasted.

That would be a good system to have nation wide.

 

[Peacenik]

I think and repeat that voter suppression measures, voter ID laws, shorter voting times pushed by the GOP are a sign of their recognition of changing US demographics. One portion of the party realized that in 2012, and wanted to correct that by reaching out to a more diverse America, but that has been successfully (hopefully only temporarily) delayed by Trump’s repeated claims of election fraud. As he himself said, with very high levels of turnout “you’d never have a republican elected again.” Hence the admission or hope by some in the GOP that voter ID laws will give them an edge.

If they didn't feel the need, they would not have done despicable things. Without this kind of election tampering the Republican party would not be faring as well.

 

[Peacenik]

that is my question too....a person should be able to vote anywhere in the state and in any fashion they decide...if it is at the poll or via mail in vote...I would favor a system where a person can vote from their home on a computer.

If it's good enough to do personal taxes on it should be secure enough for voting.

I would also favor an online system of issue discussion for every district and state, similar to discussion forums like this, run by the staff of each Congress person and Senator. The antiquated system of sending them a message and getting a form letter response is insulting. That is not effective communication. It's not a two way conversation. It's people saying things and being ignored. We don't elect our Congress people to spend 70% of their time on our dime fundraising, but that's what they do. It's time we created job descriptions for these people who ostensibly work for us. And then we need to hold them to it.

 

[Peacenik]

False. California 29th for instance, was a runoff between two Democrats.



I have been talking about the House popular vote. Because Democrats can't be bothered contesting seats (more than Republicans do) they suppress their own House popular vote.

What is the point of contesting a seat in a heavily gerrymandered district?

 

[Peacenik]

Congratulations to ug make hammer for insisting on facts in this thread.

Gerrymandering is a bad practice, whoever does it the most. It wouldn't be difficult to devise criteria to be used in every state that would rationally allocate districts by population.

However, that would never be accepted, because it would inevitably break up some "historically" ethnic districts. And by Supreme Court ruling, these are sacrosanct.

It already got accepted in Michigan. Gerrymandering is gone there. And wow. The districts look so sensible!

Michigan district map

 

[ClaraD]

If it's good enough to do personal taxes on it should be secure enough for voting.

I would also favor an online system of issue discussion for every district and state, similar to discussion forums like this, run by the staff of each Congress person and Senator. The antiquated system of sending them a message and getting a form letter response is insulting. That is not effective communication. It's not a two way conversation. It's people saying things and being ignored. We don't elect our Congress people to spend 70% of their time on our dime fundraising, but that's what they do. It's time we created job descriptions for these people who ostensibly work for us. And then we need to hold them to it.

I agree....form letters suck....that to me says that they never bother to read the letters...they just see they got one and send you a form letter....blah blah blah....pisses me off too.

 

[Peacenik]

I agree....form letters suck....that to me says that they never bother to read the letters...they just see they got one and send you a form letter....blah blah blah....pisses me off too.

No, they don't see it. The form letter means somebody on the staff clicked a box that you expressed a view on X subject, which generated a form letter response.

Our Congress people are effectively insulated from us. They do not wish to hear from us, do not wish to engage with us, entertain our thoughts. They spend 70% of their time fund raising. If you ain't writin big checks they don't want to waste their time with you. (Our time, actually, because we pay them.)