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If Immigrants Terrify You, Then Here's 3 Simple Facts To Calm Your Frightened Brain

Re: If Immigrants Terrify You, Then Here's 3 Simple Facts To Calm Your Frightened Bra

Illegal aliens are still immigrants. The thread title says "if immigrants terrify you" so that covers legal and illegal immigrants. And I was explaining which part of the immigrant population is no good for our economy. Yes, most of them being illegal.

According to federal statue, to be an immigrant you must posses a immigration visa and have been issued a "green card." It's the law.

BTW: All non citizens are aliens. There are legal aliens who have either a valid tourist, student, business, diplomatic or immigrant visa and those who haven't been issued one of the later who are illegal aliens.
Either your a legal alien, illegal alien or an American citizen.

What I have noticed that there are those who are so scared of illegal aliens that they call them immigrants.
 
Re: If Immigrants Terrify You, Then Here's 3 Simple Facts To Calm Your Frightened Bra

Regulated, legal immigration based upon the needs of the country, yes.

Unregulated, illegal, mass immigration, no. That mostly causes problems.

(1) How do you know "the needs of the country"? You have a crystal ball that tells you how many computer programmers or housemaids Country X will need five, ten, twenty years from now? What's wrong with "unregulated" migration of people eager to work, according to the old good market supply and demand?

(2) For better or worse, this is a USA-centric forum. When most people here talk about "immigration", they don't think about a Polish scientist, an English journalist, or even a Vietnamese shrimper boat captain. This is, primarily, about the mass immigration of Mexicans into the US of A, legal and "illegal". Now, anything "mass" will always come with plenty of negatives, but it is crucial that outsiders (Europeans, e.g.) understand: We are not talking about boatloads of bewildered, culturally alien war refugees, or some other artificial influx of people incompatible with our society: this "mass immigration" was requested, demanded, facilitated by our own, American society. They come here to work, and we do need this work done. We do need these people, period. And they do need us. What on Earth is wrong with that?
 
Re: If Immigrants Terrify You, Then Here's 3 Simple Facts To Calm Your Frightened Bra

According to federal statue, to be an immigrant you must posses a immigration visa and have been issued a "green card." It's the law.

BTW: All non citizens are aliens. There are legal aliens who have either a valid tourist, student, business, diplomatic or immigrant visa and those who haven't been issued one of the later who are illegal aliens.
Either your a legal alien, illegal alien or an American citizen.

What I have noticed that there are those who are so scared of illegal aliens that they call them immigrants.

I was just going by the dictionary definition. The thread starter's video is doing the same thing. Out of the people covered by the term "immigrants" (by the definition I was using) my post was about the ones I had a problem with and why. You can call them illegal aliens, but what we call them doesn't seem significant to me.
 
Re: If Immigrants Terrify You, Then Here's 3 Simple Facts To Calm Your Frightened Bra

(1) How do you know "the needs of the country"? You have a crystal ball that tells you how many computer programmers or housemaids Country X will need five, ten, twenty years from now? What's wrong with "unregulated" migration of people eager to work, according to the old good market supply and demand?

(2) For better or worse, this is a USA-centric forum. When most people here talk about "immigration", they don't think about a Polish scientist, an English journalist, or even a Vietnamese shrimper boat captain. This is, primarily, about the mass immigration of Mexicans into the US of A, legal and "illegal". Now, anything "mass" will always come with plenty of negatives, but it is crucial that outsiders (Europeans, e.g.) understand: We are not talking about boatloads of bewildered, culturally alien war refugees, or some other artificial influx of people incompatible with our society: this "mass immigration" was requested, demanded, facilitated by our own, American society. They come here to work, and we do need this work done. We do need these people, period. And they do need us. What on Earth is wrong with that?

(1) It is very easy to know what the country needs in terms of satisfying the labor market. The UK needs doctors. Why? Because they look at the number of doctors in the country (you know that they are doctors because when they pay taxes on income, their income and profession and where they work is listed) and look at the number of people graduating med school, finishing their 3years residency and then they look at the total number of people needed to fill all the medical needs of people... and they deduce if that number is satisfied or, as in the case of the UK, it isn't.

You can't look at everything, of course, like housemaids. But then again, those aren't jobs that are crucial the growth of the economy or make up a big deal of the labor market and hence, the income from taxes to the state.

You can also look at trends in the labor market. For instance, 2012 was a major year for app developers. You compile some data and see how much of the "app market" pie was made in each country. And the countries who take an interest in having good paying jobs in this market for the future will take steps to make sure that their share of the pie gets bigger in the next year.

(2) If you look at the unemployment figures, latinos are in the 9-10% group of people who are unemployed. The second highest unemployment rate after african americans. But that is from people who are registered latinos in the country. SO not illegal immigrants. Nobody knows what the unemployment is among illegal immigrants.
If you look at this:
Illegal Immigrant Unemployment Rate at 10% of Estimated 11.1 Million - Topeka Government | Examiner.com

speculations are that 10% or more are unemployed. Now of course, you can never know that for sure. There is no way to check for that. It's speculation. It could be bigger or smaller. You just don't know because they leave little to no paper trail.
And what do the people who are unemployed do? They become radicalized and join La Raza and other gangs that do drugs and kill people.

So.... mass immigration is not going to fill in the work slots that "we need the work done". It's going to fill unemployment benefits lines and gang memberships or worse, become part of the human trafficking industry, either as members or as victims. And again, because there is no way to account for them, you just wake up one day with a problem on your hands that if you had secured the border, wouldn't have been there to begin with.

In Europe, many countries have seasonary work permits issues to companies who need help from outside the country to deal with their labor demands.
In Austria, there are seasonary work permits issued to tourist companies and hotels to hire people from outside Austria, legally, with contract, for the duration of the winter tourist season. Why? Because there is need for extra work. And people who go to work there go to work according to a contract. No risk involved on anyones' part and everyone is accountable.
In Spain, there are huge seasonary work permits issued for people to go and work during the summer and autumn for crops like strawberries, citrices, grapes, etc. People go there with a contract and a work permit, do the job, no risk involved on anyones' part, all are happy. Then they go home.
And there are countless such examples.

Why am I saying: no risk involved? Because if you're a dumbo and you go there without a contract and without a work permit, especially as a woman, you risk ending up in less expected circumstances. prostitution rings and other human trafficking things... or worse.

So there is no reason why the USA can't have such programs and secure the border if the "work needs to be done" and there are no people in america who can do the work.
 
Re: If Immigrants Terrify You, Then Here's 3 Simple Facts To Calm Your Frightened Bra

(1) It is very easy to know what the country needs in terms of satisfying the labor market. The UK needs doctors. Why? Because they look at the number of doctors in the country (you know that they are doctors because when they pay taxes on income, their income and profession and where they work is listed) and look at the number of people graduating med school, finishing their 3years residency and then they look at the total number of people needed to fill all the medical needs of people... and they deduce if that number is satisfied or, as in the case of the UK, it isn't.

Which is exactly not the way to do it. The number of doctors on payrolls and the number of diplomas being issued this year tell you absolutely nothing about the real demand now, let alone the real demand that will exist 5 or 10 years from now. This is a typical central-planning delusion.

You can't look at everything, of course, like housemaids. But then again, those aren't jobs that are crucial the growth of the economy.

And how do you (or anyone) know what is crucial and what is not? For example, no housemaids (that you can afford) - and your wife have to stay home (one educated workforce member out) or reconsider having a child (demographic ripple).

The idea that "we need", say, 1 million of new software engineers - and not a single gardener, nanny or janitor to take care of their households and offices strikes me as ludicrous, and another example of the blind arrogance of socialist central-planning mentality.

You can also look at trends in the labor market.

Sure, "we" are looking all the time. Our ability to predict future or make rational, long-term-oriented decisions based on these trends is still pretty much zero, but who cares? - the actual decisions will be made based on political influence of pressure groups anyway.


If you look at this: Illegal Immigrant Unemployment Rate at 10% of Estimated 11.1 Million - Topeka Government | Examiner.com

speculations are that 10% or more are unemployed. Now of course, you can never know that for sure.

But what we do know for sure is that the most "illegals" come in without standing job offers, and in the beginning ALOMST ALL of them are unemployed; and then they go, typically, through a series of short-term odd jobs, before finding a "good one". I'm not sure what methodology the Pew Hispanic is usig, but if they just interview people who are easy to identify as "illegals" (i.e. the recent arrivals, mostly), 10% is an amazingly low number. Especially if you realize that asking an illegal "Are you employed?" is tantamount asking "Are you breaking our labor laws?"

And what do the people who are unemployed do? They become radicalized and join La Raza and other gangs that do drugs and kill people.

Except this is not they actually do that - in life, as opposed to musings of armchair sociologists. The high unemployment of recent years did not stop the steady decline in crime rates. And the Great Depression was also the time of historic lows in every category of crime in America.

(The National Council of) La Raza is not a gang, by the way. It is a leftist Hispanic civil rights advocacy group. They receive millions in federal grants every year.

So.... mass immigration is not going to fill in the work slots that "we need the work done".

Of course not - because we do not know in advance what these "slots" will be years from now. (Although half of apples being lost every harvest season in the Yakima Valley because of the shortage of pickers, points to one obvious example, right here and now). But unhindered flow of labor is just as crucial for growth and prosperity as unhindered flow of goods and capital. "Let the market decide", for once, really.

And on a different - and more important - level, it is just not kosher to let some bureaucrats to decide for other people whether they are "needed" here or there. Unlike most of the Old World countries, America was founded not on the idea of territorial or cultural sovereignty, but with the idea of individual humans' axiomatic value. It is a country of immigrants not by historic accident (like every country, really), but by design.
 
Re: If Immigrants Terrify You, Then Here's 3 Simple Facts To Calm Your Frightened Bra

Video @: If Immigrants Terrify You, Then Here's 3 Simple Facts To Calm Your Frightened Brain

Pretty everything we have learned about immigration is pretty much just a bunch of BS. Immigration doesnt hurt the "governments" social services, it also helps grow the economy, and they are also needed to help create a strong and better economy. [/FONT][/COLOR]

it's rather dishonest to equate illegal immigration and legal immigration
 
Re: If Immigrants Terrify You, Then Here's 3 Simple Facts To Calm Your Frightened Bra

Illegal aliens are still immigrants. The thread title says "if immigrants terrify you" so that covers legal and illegal immigrants. And I was explaining which part of the immigrant population is no good for our economy. Yes, most of them being illegal.

No, they aren't.
 
Re: If Immigrants Terrify You, Then Here's 3 Simple Facts To Calm Your Frightened Bra

To keep illegal American immigrants from flooding their country and taking over their Cartels?

Originally Posted by ecofarm
There must be some reason Mexico has landmines on its southern border. What could it be?

America occupies Mexico's NORTHERN BOARDER... ;)
 
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