If guns make us safer.....

[vegas giants]

They are only de facto registered to the original buyer, which is why the scheme to prevent sales via straw purchasers and corrupt FFLs won't work. We don't confiscate millions of guns because most states haven't passed laws to make guns or classes of guns illegal.

How did the UK get all of those illegal handguns off of the streets? How did Australia get rid of those pump action and semi-auto shotguns?

But they could confiscate all these defacto registered guns. Millions and millions of them. But they haven't made any laws to confiscate those guns despite all the paranoia that they will. I rest my case

 

[Rucker61]

But they could confiscate all these defacto registered guns. Millions and millions of them. But they haven't made any laws to confiscate those guns despite all the paranoia that they will. I rest my case

Who hasn't? Connecticut has. New York has. California passed laws to confiscate pistol magazines.

 

[vegas giants]

Who hasn't? Connecticut has. New York has. California passed laws to confiscate pistol magazines.

And they used defacto registration to round them up?

 

[TurtleDude]

I've been hearing the sky is falling for 6 decades now, sorry.

you are obviously ignorant of California, NY,NJ,Maryland and Connecticut

 

[TurtleDude]

Don't care, don't need one.

what a stupid attitude. That would be akin to an Episcopalian not objecting to a law that bans the Lutheran Faith.

"when the Nazis came for the Jews, I did not object because I wasn't Jewish"


are you familiar with that?

 

[Fenton Lum]

you are obviously ignorant of California, NY,NJ,Maryland and Connecticut

I'm all about state's right and local control, not my states.

 

[Fenton Lum]

what a stupid attitude. That would be akin to an Episcopalian not objecting to a law that bans the Lutheran Faith.

"when the Nazis came for the Jews, I did not object because I wasn't Jewish"


are you familiar with that?

I don't do male dominator god religion.

 

[TurtleDude]

I'm all about state's right and local control, not my states.

so you are in favor of states banning abortion and gay marriage and making homosexual sodomy a felony offense?

 

[TurtleDude]

I don't do male dominator god religion.

You appear to worship the black flag

 

[jaeger19]

Been tried and DOES work. Canada has a very successful handgun registration program as do many other countries

No they don't.. they don't have any evidence that its any more effective than their long gun registration program that proved to be ineffective. There simply is not political will to change the law even though it doesn;t work at all.

You have already been proven wrong. The preferred weapon of Canada? Handguns. Despite the handgun registration.

 

[TurtleDude]

No they don't.. they don't have any evidence that its any more effective than their long gun registration program that proved to be ineffective. There simply is not political will to change the law even though it doesn;t work at all.

You have already been proven wrong. The preferred weapon of Canada? Handguns. Despite the handgun registration.

Its amazing how impervious to factual reality his nonsense is.

 

[jaeger19]

If we said a rural farmer could have ANY gun he wanted in exchange for more gun control in the city would you support it? LOL

Nope..why would I want to restrict others needlessly simply to maintain my own freedoms?

Tell me.. would you support Voter ID requirements for all Hispanic looking people.. in exchange for you never having to produce voter ID? LOL

 

[TurtleDude]

Nope..why would I want to restrict others needlessly simply to maintain my own freedoms?

Tell me.. would you support Voter ID requirements for all Hispanic looking people.. in exchange for you never having to produce voter ID? LOL

not fair-you are using logic again.

 

[Fenton Lum]

You appear to worship the black flag

Always enjoy your vacuous feckless insults turdle.

 

[Lutherf]

Because it would be illegal to sell the gun without it being registered at the same time. So if the gun is registered to you and it shows up in the hands of a criminal you can be convicted. Currently you can just say you sold it to him. You are not required to ask if he is a felon

Out of curiosity, if my intent was to transfer a firearm to a felon why would I possibly care about any registration? I could just as easily say that the felon stole the firearm from me.

While straw purchases are a common method for getting guns into the hands of criminals, those who seek to commit one crime are generally not opposed to committing other crimes such as failing to adhere to registration laws. The ONLY people affected by registration laws are those who choose to act lawfully.

 

[TurtleDude]

Always enjoy your vacuous feckless insults turdle.

always enjoy watching someone try to attack gun ownership while claiming to be a gun owner

 

[TurtleDude]

Out of curiosity, if my intent was to transfer a firearm to a felon why would I possibly care about any registration? I could just as easily say that the felon stole the firearm from me.

While straw purchases are a common method for getting guns into the hands of criminals, those who seek to commit one crime are generally not opposed to committing other crimes such as failing to adhere to registration laws. The ONLY people affected by registration laws are those who choose to act lawfully.

this bears repeating

for the anti gun posters WHO ACTUALLY believe the swill they spew: they have to believe the following if they are honest

1) those who commit all sorts of serious felonies with firearms-murder, robbery, mayhem, kidnapping, assault etc-and are NOT deterred by the threat of doing decades in prison are SUDDENLY going to be deterred by the threat of violating a gun ban law

2) those who own guns and have never done anything that suggests they will use said guns for criminal purposes NEED more LAWs restricting their actions NOW, so they won't commit crimes in the future

 

[Rucker61]

And they used defacto registration to round them up?

They are certainly trying to.

 

[Fearandloathing]

There is a hell of a lot more to it than whether or not there are guns. There are countries that have very restrictive gun laws that have a lot of violent crime and there are countries where a lot of people have guns and there is little violent crime.
its culture more than the guns.

Your next door neighbor, Canada has just over 35 million people and an estimated 61 million guns; rifles, shotguns, hand guns and antiques. About two guns per person.

And a fraction of the US murder rate.

You're right about the culture. The second amendment has become a sort of religion.

Yes Canada also has extreme restrictions on hand guns and ALL firearms must be transported in a locked case, but it's the culture which is the difference. Canada doesn't like guns much, municipal police only started carrying pistols after WWII

 

[TurtleDude]

Your next door neighbor, Canada has just over 35 million people and an estimated 61 million guns; rifles, shotguns, hand guns and antiques. About two guns per person.

And a fraction of the US murder rate.

You're right about the culture. The second amendment has become a sort of religion.

Yes Canada also has extreme restrictions on hand guns and ALL firearms must be transported in a locked case, but it's the culture which is the difference. Canada doesn't like guns much, municipal police only started carrying pistols after WWII

Canada doesn't like guns much-okie dokie. According the bannerrhoid movement, you should be awash in gun deaths compared to England.

 

[jaeger19]

Its amazing how impervious to factual reality his nonsense is.

Not really. Its what happens with ideology. Despite all the facts and evidence you and I are never going to change the mind of vegas or Flogger type people. Just like there are still adamantly believe that we never landed on the moon, and that unicorns actually exist.

I contend that the real value of the debates on forums like this is two fold. One there are people that are on the fence about guns. They don't know about the statistics, they only know what they see on TV etc. So when they hear a flogger talk about "the mass killing of children. and the bloodshed"... they get concerned.

That's where a rational voices like yourse and mine and rucker and blackjack etc can dispel the myths and superstitions held by these anti gun proponents like flogger. AND quite frankly we should all thank Flogger.

Because when he goes all radical and starts claiming American gun owners all want to be Rambo, gun hugging killers who enjoy bloodshed... He really exposes the rabid and unrealistic view that anti gun folks have. His attitude toward gun owners turn even non gun owners in America off. Because most people in America HAVE an uncle, or brother, or son or daughter.. or father or mother that in all likelihood that owns a gun or many guns.. and they are not the rabid, Rambo, bloodthirsty people that Flogger claims they are.

the second advantage of debates like this is that gun owners get to perfect our rational and knowledgeable arguments against the outlandish and unsupported claims made by the anti gun crowd. .

 

[TurtleDude]

Not really. Its what happens with ideology. Despite all the facts and evidence you and I are never going to change the mind of vegas or Flogger type people. Just like there are still adamantly believe that we never landed on the moon, and that unicorns actually exist.

I contend that the real value of the debates on forums like this is two fold. One there are people that are on the fence about guns. They don't know about the statistics, they only know what they see on TV etc. So when they hear a flogger talk about "the mass killing of children. and the bloodshed"... they get concerned.

That's where a rational voices like yourse and mine and rucker and blackjack etc can dispel the myths and superstitions held by these anti gun proponents like flogger. AND quite frankly we should all thank Flogger.

Because when he goes all radical and starts claiming American gun owners all want to be Rambo, gun hugging killers who enjoy bloodshed... He really exposes the rabid and unrealistic view that anti gun folks have. His attitude toward gun owners turn even non gun owners in America off. Because most people in America HAVE an uncle, or brother, or son or daughter.. or father or mother that in all likelihood that owns a gun or many guns.. and they are not the rabid, Rambo, bloodthirsty people that Flogger claims they are.

the second advantage of debates like this is that gun owners get to perfect our rational and knowledgeable arguments against the outlandish and unsupported claims made by the anti gun crowd. .

that's a most excellent point and when Flogger starts talking about penises or Vegas repeats -perhaps 100 times-"Its just a form", people of normal intelligence are most likely to see the dishonesty and the disingenuous nature of the anti gun movement

 

[jaeger19]

Your next door neighbor, Canada has just over 35 million people and an estimated 61 million guns; rifles, shotguns, hand guns and antiques. About two guns per person.

And a fraction of the US murder rate.

You're right about the culture. The second amendment has become a sort of religion.

Yes Canada also has extreme restrictions on hand guns and ALL firearms must be transported in a locked case, but it's the culture which is the difference. Canada doesn't like guns much, municipal police only started carrying pistols after WWII

You are a funny country.. I'll admit when it comes to guns. I get an earful when I was hunting in Alberta. The outfitter.. who makes his living with hunting firearms was supporting the absurd handgun laws that Canada has. (listen up for the "its just a form" people).

To own a .22 pistol he has to apply for a permit. Once he has that permit.. any time he wants to leave his house.. he has to give an itinerary to the local police and not deviate from that. If he say.. swung over to pick up a prescription for his child on the way home.. he is in violation.

Now.. he argued that criminals were being deterred from getting guns by this law. And he stated that Canadians didn't have guns around "like americans do".. I pointed out.. Dude.. you are worried about a .22 pistol. Meanwhile.. next to your DOOR is a 12 gauge shotgun with ammo..

Meanwhile, the door is left unlocked during the day when everyone is off hunting. No one is around and there are construction guys, road workers etc.. going up and down the roads. it would be cake for someone to simply open up the door and take the shotgun.. and likely.. he wouldn;t miss it for weeks thinking one of his cousins or sons. Everyone one of the hunting camps had shotguns and rifles in the trailers and cabins and trucks. You could see them from the window. One camp actually had a shotgun leaning up against the trailer and NO ONE WAS THERE.

The difference in Canada murder rates is that you have a different culture, have better support systems, are more rural, different drug policies, so on.. its not because of your firearms policy.

I pointed out that he was worried about him owning a .22 pistol.. while meanwhile its okay that he owns a shotgun capable of blowing a fist sized whole clean through a person. Now.. does that make any logical sense?

 

[jaeger19]

that's a most excellent point and when Flogger starts talking about penises or Vegas repeats -perhaps 100 times-"Its just a form", people of normal intelligence are most likely to see the dishonesty and the disingenuous nature of the anti gun movement

Absolutely. In a way.. their absurdity is our best weapon against the anti gun culture.

 

[TurtleDude]

Absolutely. In a way.. their absurdity is our best weapon against the anti gun culture.

My late mother has family in CT. Her first cousin(recently deceased) taught psychology at Yale Med school and her cousin's husband was a psychiatrist at the same medical school and at Yale/New Haven Hospital. another first cousin of my mother had two children and the one who is still with us lives a few miles away from her uncle. all three of them were, at best, neutral about guns. I would visit them many years ago when I was a student there and while they weren't anti gun or opposed to the fact that I was a varsity shooter on the college team, they didn't own guns.

that all changed. The first turning point was when a doctor both of the Yale professors knew was brutalized and his wife and children raped and burned to death in the last case in which the death penalty (since commuted) was imposed in CT. This happened in one of the "safest" neighborhoods in CT, an upscale area full of professionals and Yale professors. Next up was Sandyhook. They all realized that the hysterical screams for "waiting periods" and "registration" and "universal background checks" were irrelevant to a case where someone actually bought a gun after a check and registered it only to have it taken from them through the lethal use of force.

This was not uncommon. I have read and heard many people who realized that the gun control movement's attempt to use Sandyhook to advance gun laws that would not have done a damn thing in that case, was cynical and machiavellian politics.