If a fertilized egg is a child...

[choiceone]

No that was not evidence of jeffersons own actions, just evidence of his decendents.
He freed them after he used their labour. Not much of an apology for slavery that.
The only difference we have is I have no reason to worship jefferson.

I agree, having just read this because of the above post that said he only freed five slaves.

Slavery at Monticello FAQs - Property

www.monticello.org

In fact, he only freed two slaves in his lifetime, five by his will, and recommended that others be freed, though all the freed slaves were of one family. He let about 20 others flee unpursued. So he was far from even what I thought.

I never worshipped the guy. Rather, I had hoped he was better because, from what little evidence remains, he did sympathetic research on Native Americans, though his notes were lost because of a fire.

I'm glad you criticized, because it led me to read the above. I'm disappointed, but I still maintain you shouldn't claim he raped Hemings on the basis of the existing evidence. Of course, his legal descendants are still crappy.

 

[soylentgreen]

I agree, having just read this because of the above post that said he only freed five slaves.

Slavery at Monticello FAQs - Property

www.monticello.org

In fact, he only freed two slaves in his lifetime, five by his will, and recommended that others be freed, though all the freed slaves were of one family. He let about 20 others flee unpursued. So he was far from even what I thought.

I never worshipped the guy. Rather, I had hoped he was better because, from what little evidence remains, he did sympathetic research on Native Americans, though his notes were lost because of a fire.

I'm glad you criticized, because it led me to read the above. I'm disappointed, but I still maintain you shouldn't claim he raped Hemings on the basis of the existing evidence. Of course, his legal descendants are still crappy.

As a slave she would have the choice of agreeing to be his mistress or be a slave just like the other slaves. When considering her options it is rape because her choices were the ones he controlled. Perhaps not rape in the sense that he tied her down and beat her. But it is rape in what choice did she really have that he did not control.

I doubt any american would agree that they worship jefferson. But far to many do not ever question what they were taught in school. And that is also a form of worship.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

I do not believe a fertilized egg is a child, but others do.

If hypothetically these people are right, then it follows that the fertilized egg should receive a social security number, be considered a US citizen, be counted in the census, and the mother should receive child support and have the ability to receive a child tax credit for the fertilized egg.

Or do you disagree?

Not all humans receive the same benefits and tax credits at every stage of their lives. Adults are humans, too, so should parents of adult children receive a child tax credit, or is it ok to cut it off at 18? And if it's ok to cut it off at 18, why wouldn't it be ok to start it after 9 months?

Not saying I think a fertilized egg is a child. I'm just basing that off your premise, which you are raising as a hypothetical.

 

[prometeus]

Not all humans receive the same benefits and tax credits at every stage of their lives. Adults are humans, too, so should parents of adult children receive a child tax credit, or is it ok to cut it off at 18?

It is called a CHILD tax credit for a reason. Do you know of any adult tax credits?

And if it's ok to cut it off at 18, why wouldn't it be ok to start it after 9 months?

Because it if is a child then should have the same benefits as all children.

 

[quip]

I am still gob smacked that americans have to pay for giving birth at a hospital.

Apparently, our medical process concerning the birthing process is far superior to yours.
At least that's the bullshit horse pill we're being forced to swallow.

 

[soylentgreen]

Apparently, our medical process concerning the birthing process is far superior to yours.
At least that's the bullshit horse pill we're being forced to swallow.

I wonder if anyone can supply any reasons for such a conclusion.

You have a high death rate for birthing. One of the more expensive places to raise a child and with little in the way of government subsidies. The U.S. is one of only three countries in the world not to offer statutory paid maternity leave.

 

[quip]

I wonder if anyone can supply any reasons for such a conclusion.

You have a high death rate for birthing. One of the more expensive places to raise a child and with little in the way of government subsidies. The U.S. is one of only three countries in the world not to offer statutory paid maternity leave.

Just livin' the dream

 

[weaver2]

.You have a high death rate for birthing. One of the more expensive places to raise a child and with little in the way of government subsidies. The U.S. is one of only three countries in the world not to offer statutory paid maternity leave.

The Republicn Party has voted against paid maternity leave, universal health insurance, early child hood education, funding programs for highly effective women's contraceptives that have proven to reduce abortions by 40%. They have voted for federal support for sex education that increases unplanned and unwanted pregnancies. They have voted for banning abortion even though it has been proven not to cut the rate of abortion. This is the point at which you realize that the anti-abortion movement is not about saving fetuses but about punishing women.

 

[soylentgreen]

The Republicn Party has voted against paid maternity leave, universal health insurance, early child hood education, funding programs for highly effective women's contraceptives that have proven to reduce abortions by 40%. They have voted for federal support for sex education that increases unplanned and unwanted pregnancies. They have voted for banning abortion even though it has been proven not to cut the rate of abortion. This is the point at which you realize that the anti-abortion movement is not about saving fetuses but about punishing women.

I think at that point americans should be realising there is something terribly wrong with your politics.

 

[weaver2]

I think at that point americans should be realising there is something terribly wrong with your politics.

The perfect government is not possible. Every government has deep within its construction a weakness that dishonest and selfish politicians willingly use that corrupts and destroys good government.

 

[soylentgreen]

The perfect government is not possible. Every government has deep within its construction a weakness that dishonest and selfish politicians willingly use that corrupts and destroys good government.

No that is merely the propaganda that americans are fed on a daily basis. Americas problem is it does have a corrupt government and a governing system that is out of date and not a good idea even in the first place. An experiment that should have ended long ago.

 

[quip]

I wonder if anyone can supply any reasons for such a conclusion.

It simple, we're a country which places a priority of profit over (by way of) the people.

Re: The late, great G.C. -

"Have you ever noticed that the only metaphor we have in our public discourse for solving problems is to declare war on it? We have the war on crime, the war on
cancer, the war on drugs. But did you ever notice that we have no war on homelessness? You know why? Because there's no money in that problem. No money to be made off of the homeless. If you can find a solution to homelessness where the corporations and politicians can make a few million dollars each, you will see the streets of America begin to clear up pretty damn quick!"

 

[weaver2]

No that is merely the propaganda that americans are fed on a daily basis.

I don't believe Americans are told that their government contains a weakness. If anything the propaganda supports the idea that our Constitution is just about perfect. It isn't.

Americas problem is it does have a corrupt government

If you are thinking of government as the civil service that runs the day to day workings of the government you are wrong. The appointed heads of divisions may use their position for personal gain but the staff is honest and hard working. If you are thinking of government as the elected officials yes, we are in a time when many are distacted by lies from the corrupt.

and a governing system that is out of date and not a good idea even in the first place. An experiment that should have ended long ago.

The Magna Carta is over 800 years old and with updates is not perfect but is still resonably effective. Our Constitution with up dates is not perfect but still effective. We are in a strange and distressing political situation right now. This is not the fault of our Constitution any more than your porblems are the fault of your constitutional monarchy.

 

[soylentgreen]

It simple, we're a country which places a priority of profit over (by way of) the people.

Re: The late, great G.C. -

"Have you ever noticed that the only metaphor we have in our public discourse for solving problems is to declare war on it? We have the war on crime, the war on
cancer, the war on drugs. But did you ever notice that we have no war on homelessness? You know why? Because there's no money in that problem. No money to be made off of the homeless. If you can find a solution to homelessness where the corporations and politicians can make a few million dollars each, you will see the streets of America begin to clear up pretty damn quick!"

That and the ideology of individualism seems to be a twisted ideology among some americans. For many that ideology is one where the rights of the individual is balanced with the needs of the community. Where as for some americans it is more a belief in the idea that I am ok and if that brings harm to others. Then **** them.

 

[soylentgreen]

I don't believe Americans are told that their government contains a weakness. If anything the propaganda supports the idea that our Constitution is just about perfect. It isn't.

If you are thinking of government as the civil service that runs the day to day workings of the government you are wrong. The appointed heads of divisions may use their position for personal gain but the staff is honest and hard working. If you are thinking of government as the elected officials yes, we are in a time when many are distacted by lies from the corrupt.


The Magna Carta is over 800 years old and with updates is not perfect but is still resonably effective. Our Constitution with up dates is not perfect but still effective. We are in a strange and distressing political situation right now. This is not the fault of our Constitution any more than your porblems are the fault of your constitutional monarchy.

True, often enough I come across some american quite plainly saying that the constitution is a work of god never to be changed. Crazy way to think of a constitution.

While I agree that most civil servants are honest enough. But the biggest frauds in welfare are usually done by those working in the system rather than from those who receive welfare benefits.

The british do not have a written constitution for much the same reason as new zealand does not and for the same reason and as to why america should not. In that we all have a previous constitution that is not fit for the modern world but still contains the essence of a constitution that we want. So the british and nz have an unwritten constitution. The same could work for america.

 

[choiceone]

I think at that point americans should be realising there is something terribly wrong with your politics.

We do realize it, at least Democrats and Dem-leaning Independents. The Republicans do not get it, or, rather, the ones that get it want their way and don't care what they have to do to get it. Remember, they were the ones who stupidly became election deniers.

 

[choiceone]

True, often enough I come across some american quite plainly saying that the constitution is a work of god never to be changed. Crazy way to think of a constitution.

While I agree that most civil servants are honest enough. But the biggest frauds in welfare are usually done by those working in the system rather than from those who receive welfare benefits.

The british do not have a written constitution for much the same reason as new zealand does not and for the same reason and as to why america should not. In that we all have a previous constitution that is not fit for the modern world but still contains the essence of a constitution that we want. So the british and nz have an unwritten constitution. The same could work for america.

Yes, this work of god this is gross. The key point of the Constitution is separation of church and state, and religious believers aren't supposed to try to impose some churchy state. But there are people here who want it publicly declared that the US is a Christian nation and, in some cases, want a theocracy even though, from the start, the founders wanted to prevent the sort of problem that developed in the 1600s and early 1700s.

As for welfare, it's true what you say. Down in Mississippi, I think, when the state received some big welfare grant, a corrupt official siphoned off quite a bit and also used some to build a big sports stadium and paid $1 million to some sports figure to give speeches, which he never gave. By a miracle, they got the latter to give the money back. But the big problem is how international criminals manage to cheat Social Security.

The unwritten constitution thing would never work. Look at the stupid way the Catholic conservatives on the Supreme Court interpreted the Constitution by twisting it and history to make claims that would give them the evil results they wanted. Without a written Constitution, they would do even more damage. Because some people don't want a democratic republic, and don't like democracy at all.

 

[soylentgreen]

We do realize it, at least Democrats and Dem-leaning Independents. The Republicans do not get it, or, rather, the ones that get it want their way and don't care what they have to do to get it. Remember, they were the ones who stupidly became election deniers.

It is an old chinese curse. "May you live in interesting times."

 

[samiam5211]

A pregnant woman is carrying a baby...a developing human being. Many DO receive support from the state for pre-natal care.

But its OK...I understand your premise...you are no different than many others here. Your ultimate goal is to support killing babies in the name of convenience, but you know how reprehenisible and inhuman that is, so you feel the need to dehumanize the baby you support killing...to have a shot at living with yourself.

Its an ugly position to start with. Good luck.

I'm ok with killing babies before they are born (up to about 4 months) if the person who has to donate their body to grow them doesn't want to do it.

 

[VanceMack]

I'm ok with killing babies before they are born (up to about 4 months) if the person who has to donate their body to grow them doesn't want to do it.

I appreciate your honesty.

 

[Indydave]

Should women be able to receive child tax credit per fertilized egg, including frozen embryos?

And for some follow up questions:
Should women receive childcare tax credit for the "childcare" of the frozen embryo she is paying to be taken care of?
Should women be able receive child support for an unborn child?
Should states count the unborn as members of their populations?
Should fertilized eggs receive social security numbers and be considered US citizens?

An article about this issue:

https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1122&context=wlulr-online#:~:text=Article%20I%2C%20Section%20Two%20of,birth%20of%20each%20household%20resident.

I can see where this might lead to men demanding partial credit for withholding sperm......should masterbation be criminalized.....probably would need a SC decision

 

[choiceone]

I can see where this might lead to men demanding partial credit for withholding sperm......should masterbation be criminalized.....probably would need a SC decision

Men will actually never do this. We have sperm banks and they'd be enough to keep the US going for many, many decades as they are now, long before other men choose to donate.