If a child drops out of school, whose fault is it?

[The Mark]

The underlying problem is shoving kids through the system. Make students repeat until they learn the basics.

Too much time is wasted in the early primary school years (Kinder/Year 1/Year 2). The first 3 years of primary school should focus on literacy and numeracy and nothing else...no finger painting, no craft time wasting, just a total focus on the three Rs. Learning by rote has it's place. Stop sending students to high school who cannot read and write. These basic skills are the foundation for future education and until the focus is returned to the 3Rs and students are made responsible for their learning (along with parents and teachers), then education is a failure.

Repeating does not help, necessarily. Not all children learn the same way.

Besides which, music, art, dance, what have you...all these are as important as math, reading, writing.
For that matter you could probably combine them in some cases. Music has math in it. Art combined with writing. Hell, art combined with math.
Maybe some kids really get drawing, but don't get something else, so work with their strengths if you can.

I dunno.

 

[The Mark]

That may be true, but in the end some people are disadvantaged, some will have crapy parents, some will have negative role models or lack of access to money

And while on an emotional level we want to see the 5 year old victim of circumstance, the abused neglected child who did nothng to deserve what happened to them, we also need to realize that if we treat the 16 to 21 year old teenager/ young adult as a helps less victim of society instead of providing them a way to better themselves only after they have decided they want to be bettered, we will see a person who grows up believing they were a victim and has no incentive to improve, Afterall we cat be mean to a victim.

We've been fighting a war on poverty for 50 years now, the reality is we wl never "fix it" as in one day there will be no poverty

That's cause we don't know who the enemy is, in the war on poverty. OR something like that.

Helping does not mean carrying. You can help a child, or even a teenager, without making them feel entitled. Of course they aren't a helpless victim. But if you treat them as if they don't have a problem, that's about as bad.

 

[Jerry]

Fairly simple question, I think.

But the answer(s) might be more complex.

Personally, I consider education to be the most important thing/subject/topic (or at least, most important beyond the very basic needs of survival).

Partially because of this, I think the goal should be a drop-out rate of 0. None. No children leave school before completing it.

The way to fix this is not to force them to stay, but rather to:
Engage them so they don't want to leave.
Support them so they don't have to leave.
Etc.

I dropped out, and while there were many contributing factors, it was my choice.

 

[Jerry]

Not a simple question because it all depends on the reason for dropping out.

There are lots of different reasons, including but not limited to:

1. Pregnancy;

2. Financial Problems;

3. Family problems;

4. Culture shock (Immigrant children);

5. Academic Difficulties;

6. Attendance;

7. Anger, frustration over being held back one or more grades;

8. Bored by school.

No one answer fits all or any combination of the above.

The clincher for me was a social disconnect. With all the moving around it got to where I just didn't know anyone. It becomes very difficult to "just make new friends" when you have every reason to believe you won't be in that city in 4-6 months.

 

[Jerry]

In order of fault
The Parents
The School
The teachers.

In fairness, teachers can't drop everything and go comb the streets looking for a wayward student. When I had finaly had enough, the teachers at my last school 100 miles away were powerless, and the teachers at my new school never new me.

 

[The Mark]

I dropped out, and while there were many contributing factors, it was my choice.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that schools needs to be so attractive an option you'd RATHER continue going. So in your case, those contributing factors would not have existed. OR at least be less.

 

[Jerry]

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that schools needs to be so attractive an option you'd RATHER continue going. So in your case, those contributing factors would not have existed. OR at least be less.

I'm sure the quality of the school is a factor for others, though it was a minor issue for me. I think one of the challenges in dealing with the problem of drop-outs is there no single profile they fit into.

 

[The Mark]

I'm sure the quality of the school is a factor for others, though it was a minor issue for me. I think one of the challenges in dealing with the problem of drop-outs is there no single profile they fit into.

I think the problem is using profiles at all. It's too easy. Children aren't that simple. Neither is learning.

 

[RetiredNSmilin]

I dropped out of school in the 10th grade. 100% my parents fault. Had they been actual nurturing people I would have been motivated by their example, and help. As it was, I had to motivate myself.

Now I have two college degrees and am more than comfortably retired. I had to do it all on my own the hard way. ZERO help from so called "parents".

 

[radcen]

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that schools needs to be so attractive an option you'd RATHER continue going. So in your case, those contributing factors would not have existed. OR at least be less.

If I had to pick 1 or 2 that may have the bigger influence I would pick parents and/or society (read: local neighborhoods, peer pressure, etc). In too many places these two forces don't put value on education and don't stress it to the kids. Take inner city schools, for example. Sure, many of them could use some assistance themselves, but they're not necessarily all that bad, and most of their problems stem precisely from the fact that nobody attending places value on them or the education they could be providing. I guess this is my way of saying "it all starts at home".

 

[Cephus]

Perhaps so, but how can you force them to?

Social, legal and financial pressure.

 

[Cephus]

There were so many strikes against this kid from the start that he did not seem to have any chance at all.

How would anyone know? He didn't even try.

 

[Cephus]

IMO that means either they should have let you graduate...

Or more likely, they weren't providing education in a way that engaged and interested you.

Welcome to reality. The world doesn't have to entertain you. You have responsibilities, no matter how bored you might be.

 

[The Mark]

Welcome to reality. The world doesn't have to entertain you. You have responsibilities, no matter how bored you might be.

I didn't say entertain.

 

[Fiddytree]

Any and all the above.

It depends on the context of each student's situation.

But I can tell you there are occasions where it has literally (i.e. in writing) been the school's policy to have a student drop out.

Josie asked what can the schools or teachers do better? Well, with some groups (those prone to some of the highest drop-out rates), it is the type of instruction utilized and the quality of supports around said youth. Right now my area is focusing on increasing the likelihood that certain pockets of the most likely to drop-out demographics stay in school. That involves collecting data, evaluating it, and then looking to research to finding out what contributes to that demographics' dropping out and what is known about ameliorating that negative statistic. For this pocket of youth, we are looking at spreading different interventions, instructional strategies, and individualized planning. That then is involving district offices to develop coherent strategies for improvement, which in turn is spread down to the individual school administration, which in turn is then spread to each teacher or a specific grouping of teachers. They then put into practice such strategies (or at least, say they are), report back up the chain of command for data collection purposes. We are also developing outside groups to discuss the difficulties in using the strategies with fidelity or utilizing interagency resources.

It's hardly easy and as I said above, it's any and all reasons why the student may or may not drop out, but that does not negate the responsibility of all involved (including the student, guardian, school, and teacher) to reevaluate what is going on and trying out new ideas. For that reason, I do reiterate that the school and teachers have some responsibility involved.

 

[Nilly]

Fairly simple question, I think.

But the answer(s) might be more complex.

Personally, I consider education to be the most important thing/subject/topic (or at least, most important beyond the very basic needs of survival).

Partially because of this, I think the goal should be a drop-out rate of 0. None. No children leave school before completing it.

The way to fix this is not to force them to stay, but rather to:
Engage them so they don't want to leave.
Support them so they don't have to leave.
Etc.

Impossible question to answer, there's not enough information. It could be any number or combination of factors.

 

[Cephus]

I didn't say entertain.

Entertain, engage, whatever. They don't have to make it fun. Going to work every day isn't fun. Your employers don't have to make work enjoyable. You just have to do it, whether you like it or not.

 

[QuadpolarNutjob]

combination of child/parents, i voted child because i'm a believer in free will, i had it as a kid and so did all of you whether you admit it or not or want to blame someone else for your screwups or not.

 

[Josie]

There were so many strikes against this kid from the start that he did not seem to have any chance at all.

He didn't have a choice not to bully people? He didn't have a choice to not go to prison?

 

[Josie]

Then a system needs to exist that supports their children's education attempts.

There is. We have lots of remedial teachers that are hired just for those kids who are way behind.

 

[Josie]

Then we need training for parents. And remedial training for new kindergarten students, if necessary.
As to your first point, we need assistance for children who have those issues. And I don't mean special classes, necessarily. It may just be that they learn in different ways. But hell, I'm no expert.

What if the parents won't go to the training or they go but don't really care?

 

[joG]

Fairly simple question, I think.

But the answer(s) might be more complex.

Personally, I consider education to be the most important thing/subject/topic (or at least, most important beyond the very basic needs of survival).

Partially because of this, I think the goal should be a drop-out rate of 0. None. No children leave school before completing it.

The way to fix this is not to force them to stay, but rather to:
Engage them so they don't want to leave.
Support them so they don't have to leave.
Etc.

Privat schools would do a better job, if the property rights are well designed.

 

[joG]

Not a simple question because it all depends on the reason for dropping out.

There are lots of different reasons, including but not limited to:

1. Pregnancy;

2. Financial Problems;

3. Family problems;

4. Culture shock (Immigrant children);

5. Academic Difficulties;

6. Attendance;

7. Anger, frustration over being held back one or more grades;

8. Bored by school.

No one answer fits all or any combination of the above.

So you need to structure the property rights for a system of private schools to catch the problems and get them fixed.

 

[joG]

But the majority of those break down to the child and their family at fault. Pregnancy, academic difficulties attendance, anger and boredom are the fault of the student, financial problems, family problems, culture shock, those are all problems with the family.

Of course the child and family are at fault. They are the main losers. But it is a complicated system that must be structured so that all the players have a vested interest in as many children making it as possibly can. The present public school system is obviously doing a mediocre job at best.

 

[Ahlevah]

That should be a factor.

That should be a factor? Your poll question was whose fault is it? Clearly, if a girl drops out of school because she got pregnant then the principal fault lies with her. No pregnancy, no dropping out.