ICE Conducts Military Style Raid On Apartment Building At 1AM Rappelling From Helicopters On Roof

[Cork]

You mean the cult compound where federal law enforcement attempted to serve a warrant and were met with bullets?

When did that happen at the apartment building in Chicago?

Lol I love the false equivalency of these people. Cpwill is a conservative but isn't a Trumper so this is a bit of a head scratcher.

 

[cpwill]

And you are constantly bringing up examples that aren’t massive violations of the 4th Amendment to try and whataboutism.

Literally Post 14.

We can go back and forth on examples if you like. The point remains that there is clear precedent for militarized law enforcement in this country, and pretending to be shocked now - and only when its wielded by members of the other Tribe - is ridiculous.

1. A thing can be bad without it being Nazi Germany. "Nazi" is not a synonym for "thing I don't like" or "thing that is bad".
2. A thing can be bad and have precedent - as a nation we've been through far more abusive Presidents than this one.
3. A thing can have precedent and still be bad and wrong.

As for ICE raids - the point is clearly to maximize self-deportation. As a strategy, that makes sense. Denying Due Process is still wrong, and the Administration has stepped out way over their skis in doing so. Both those things can be true at the same time without us having to descend into hysterics.

 

[Questerr]

Literally Post 14.

Trump raiding an apartment building and arresting every resident DOESN’T have a precedent.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

And you are constantly bringing up examples that aren’t massive violations of the 4th Amendment to try and whataboutism.

It’s called lying.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

Sorry, but, using latin while in the act of not believing everything I believe makes you Literally Hitler, and I don't platform Hitler.

You are lying again.

 

[Linc]

You are lying again.

**** the economic shutdown; keep it shut until ICE and NG are out of blue cities on conjured up reasons; keep it shut until apartheid gerrymandering is reversed now

 

[cpwill]

Trump raiding an apartment building and arresting every resident DOESN’T have a precedent.

Because it was an apartment building in Chicago, and so militarized law enforcement can Only Ever Have Occurred if it occurred in an Apartment Building in Chicago, yeah, we know.


Out of curiosity - was it detention, or actual arrest and charge?

 

[Questerr]

Because it was an apartment building in Chicago, and so militarized law enforcement can Only Ever Have Occurred if it occurred in an Apartment Building in Chicago, yeah, we know.


Out of curiosity - was it detention, or actual arrest and charge?

Holding a person for hours in custody is an arrest even if they aren’t charged. The Supreme Court has been clear about that in decision after decision.

 

[cpwill]

Holding a person for hours in custody is an arrest even if they aren’t charged. The Supreme Court has been clear about that in decision after decision.

AH. So they were detained, but detained for a length of time, and so the argument is that this means they were arrested without probable cause, making for a violation of their 4th Amendment rights?

 

[Questerr]

AH. So they were detained, but detained for a length of time, and so the argument is that this means they were arrested without probable cause, making for a violation of their 4th Amendment rights?

Correct. They were US citizens arrested with no suspicion that they had committed any crime. ICE saw a building full of brown people and that was enough of a “crime” for them.

 

[Luce]

Bro, overuse of calling everyone ya'll don't like has turned "You're A Fascist Racist Literally Hitler Who Hates Poor People And Women" from an accusation into a punchline. No one cares when you use those terms anymore, because they only mean "someone you dislike".


Though they do have meanings, and it's ironic that you would falsely accuse someone of such while insisting that they are lying (without specifics). Hence, the irony of that post

It is what it is.

 

[cpwill]

It is what it is.

It is, but, when we make these terms effectively meaningless in the public square, we lose a real element of our defense against them.

If Everything is Fascism, Racism, and Hitler, then nothing is.

 

[cpwill]

Correct. They were US citizens arrested with no suspicion that they had committed any crime.

If that is the case then it would indeed be another instance of this administration abusing due process and getting out over it's skis.

We'll see how it plays out in court.

ICE saw a building full of brown people and that was enough of a “crime” for them.

I'm betting they are going to be able to present more than that, but, we'll see.

 

[Luce]

It is, but, when we make these terms effectively meaningless in the public square, we lose a real element of our defense against them. If Everything is Fascism, Racism, and Hitler, then nothing is.

You say that it becomes meaningless because people say it all the time.

Problem is, the whole MAGA thing really is fascism, and I personally extend that to each and every person who defends that shit.

 

[hooligan]

Looks like the Clinton Era is back.

Oops, your mask is slipping.

I remember when you used to pretend to be reasonable and rational.

 

[Questerr]

If that is the case then it would indeed be another instance of this administration abusing due process and getting out over it's skis.

We'll see how it plays out in court.



I'm betting they are going to be able to present more than that, but, we'll see.

They definitely won’t be able to present an actual warrant, because warrants require due diligence, like checking the ownership of individual units in the building, and they would have no excuse for holding US citizens or even entering their apartments to begin with.

 

[hooligan]

"At around 1 a.m. on Tuesday morning, armed federal agents rappelled from helicopters onto the roof of a five-storey residential apartment in the South Shore of Chicago, according to witnesses and local reporting. As they worked their way through the building, they kicked down doors, threw flash bang grenades, and rounded up adults and screaming children alike, detaining them in zip-ties and arresting dozens, they said.

The military-style raid was part of a widespread immigration crackdown in the country’s third-largest city as part of the Trump Administration’s “Operation Midway Blitz,” which has brought a dramatic increase in federal raids and arrests.

Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker accused the federal agents of separating children from their parents, zip-tying their hands, and detaining them in “dark vans” for hours. Videos show flashbangs erupting on the street, followed by residents of the apartment building—children among them—being led from the building. Photos of the aftermath show toys and shoes littering the apartment hallways, evidence of those pulled from their beds by the operation that included FBI and Homeland Security agents.

The raid has drawn outrage throughout Chicago and the state, with rights groups and lawmakers claiming it represents a dramatic escalation in tactics used by federal authorities in the pursuit of Trump’s aggressive immigration crackdown."

'Military-Style' ICE Raid In Chicago Shows Escalation in Tactics -

MSN

This is what heartless immigrant haters want to see. Authoritarian disregard for human rights and even for Constitutional rights. Terrified children pulled naked from their parents and rounded up like cattle. Actually, cows are not treated this badly.

“They just treated us like we were nothing,” Pertissue Fisher, a U.S. citizen who lives in the apartment building, told ABC7 Chicago in an interview soon after the raid. She said she was then handcuffed, held for hours, and released around 3 a.m. This was the first time she said a gun was ever put in her face."

I hope she sues them. What happened to her should happen to no American. We are supposed to be safe in our homes from government forces.

"He [Trump] called for U.S. cities to be “training grounds” for the military, as he continues to threaten Chicago with his newly named “Department of War,” and has said that he plans to deploy the National Guard to the city to crack down on crime and immigration enforcement."

Where, oh where, are all the "Don't tread on me!" tough-guys now?

This is precisely what being tread upon looks like, and not a peep from those jackasses.

 

[BirdinHand]

Because it was an apartment building in Chicago, and so militarized law enforcement can Only Ever Have Occurred if it occurred in an Apartment Building in Chicago, yeah, we know.


Out of curiosity - was it detention, or actual arrest and charge?

It was raiding an ENTIRE APARTMENT BUILDING in Chicago like they were storming a building in Fallujah.

It was flashbang grenades being tossed, windows smashed out, doors kicked open - troops with weapons drawn - raiding AN ENTIRE APARTMENT COMPLEX.

And you’re here splitting hairs about it instead of flat out condemning it, why exactly?


On what grounds can you justify this in ANY way, shape or form?

 

[cpwill]

You say that it becomes meaningless because people say it all the time.

That is indeed how it works.

On both sides.

Consider: If a Democrat suggests a new program aimed at helping the poor and a Republican yells out "That's SOCIALISM!", how credible do you find that accusation? Does it make you back off your support until you've confirmed whether or not the proposal is indeed socialism?

Or is it kind of an eye roll and a shrug?

Problem is, the whole MAGA thing really is fascism

Much of it heavily overlaps, as I have been pointing out since 2015 back when the left was still chortling about how delightfully "disruptive" this all was.

However:

, and I personally extend that to each and every person who defends that shit.

I would not automatically extend that definition to anyone who votes for Trump or defends any particular decision or policy, any more than anyone who voted for Biden/Harris and/or defended any particular decision or policy automatically becomes guilty of their abuses.

 

[Luce]

Oops, your mask is slipping.

I remember when you used to pretend to be reasonable and rational.

MAGAs are MAGAs, they are each the same in beliefs and nobody can smell the difference between any two of them.

The fact that some of them are somewhat articulate doesn't mitigate this. In fact, it makes them even more culpable.

It was raiding an ENTIRE APARTMENT BUILDING in Chicago like they were storming a building in Fallujah.

It was flashbang grenades being tossed, windows smashed out, doors kicked open - troops with weapons drawn - raiding AN ENTIRE APARTMENT COMPLEX.

And you’re here splitting hairs about it instead of flat out condemning it, why exactly?


On what grounds can you justify this in ANY way, shape or form?

Because he LIKES it.

 

[Luce]

That is indeed how it works.

Tough shit.

 

[cpwill]

Oops, your mask is slipping.

I remember when you used to pretend to be reasonable and rational.

False. I have never been intelligent, reasonable, or rational

 

[Peacenik]

It was raiding an ENTIRE APARTMENT BUILDING in Chicago like they were storming a building in Fallujah.

It was flashbang grenades being tossed, windows smashed out, doors kicked open - troops with weapons drawn - raiding AN ENTIRE APARTMENT COMPLEX.

And you’re here splitting hairs about it instead of flat out condemning it, why exactly?


On what grounds can you justify this in ANY way, shape or form?

Must have scared the shit out of the innocent small children. Traumatized.

 

[cpwill]

It was raiding an ENTIRE APARTMENT BUILDING in Chicago like they were storming a building in Fallujah.

It was flashbang grenades being tossed, windows smashed out, doors kicked open - troops with weapons drawn - raiding AN ENTIRE APARTMENT COMPLEX.

And you’re here splitting hairs about it instead of flat out condemning it, why exactly?

Well, the post that sort of started that discussion insisted this looked like Nazi Germany, and I do think there is a difference between "Law enforcement raided a large building and (presumably) wrongfully arrested a bunch of people" and "The government has initiated the en masse annihilation of all Jews, Roma, the mentally and physically unfit, and anyone who objects."

I also pointed out this was not the first time we've dealt with militarized law enforcement doing things like smashing into buildings and even shooting people, and that made people very upset.

As I laid out:

The point remains that there is clear precedent for militarized law enforcement in this country, and pretending to be shocked now - and only when its wielded by members of the other Tribe - is ridiculous. ​

​

1. A thing can be bad without it being Nazi Germany. "Nazi" is not a synonym for "thing I don't like" or "thing that is bad". ​

2. A thing can be bad and have precedent - as a nation we've been through far more abusive Presidents than this one.​

3. A thing can have precedent and still be bad and wrong. ​

​

As for ICE raids - the point is clearly to maximize self-deportation. As a strategy, that makes sense. Denying Due Process is still wrong, and the Administration has stepped out way over their skis in doing so. Both those things can be true at the same time without us having to descend into hysterics.​

On what grounds can you justify this in ANY way, shape or form?

I'm not in here justifying any abuse of US Citizens' constitutional rights. However, I am also not setting my hair on fire and pretending that this is Literally Hitler, and that seems to have upset people who don't understand the ability to think that a thing was wrong without labeling it as "Nazi Germany".

I'm not partaking in an emotional melt-down, and I point out that we've done bad things before, and so people are assuming therefore I must support the abuse of others' rights, because this signals that I'm not of their "tribe", and they have difficulty imagining that anyone who is not in Blue Tribe would not therefore be a member of MAGA Tribe

For example, see @Luce:

​

MAGAs are MAGAs, they are each the same in beliefs and nobody can smell the difference between any two of them.

The fact that some of them are somewhat articulate doesn't mitigate this. In fact, it makes them even more culpable.​

Because he LIKES it.​

Now, I've been Never Trump since before there was a name for it. I was the first person on this board to label and call out Trump's movement as having fascistic tendencies, all the way back in 2015, when the Left thought that Rubio and Cruz were the Real Threats and Trump was hilarious. I've never voted for the man, supported both impeachments, very clearly laid out where he broke federal law (when I thought he did so, which was not the same as "every time he was accused of doing so"), and consider him a Domestic Enemy of the Constitution.

But @Luce isn't able (or willing) to understand anyone who doesn't signal membership in Blue Tribe by going into hysterics over raids on buildings not being MAGA Tribe, so, he does this little psuedo-accusation thing of me of being MAGA.

@Bok Tuklo did a form of it as well, except, instead of simply assuming anyone who disagrees with him is MAGA, he assumes anyone who disagrees with him is:

Yeah, you are lying.

I suspected you would embrace fascism; your racist approval of summarily executing Black people and dehumanizing of women was a tell.

A fascist, racist, murdering, misogynist liar.

 

[Luce]

But @Luce isn't able (or willing) to understand anyone who doesn't signal membership in Blue Tribe by going into hysterics over raids on buildings not being MAGA Tribe, so, he accuses me of being MAGA.

Nonsense.

You're just doing the Susan Collins version of MAGA. You aren't fooling anyone.