sudan
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When I sat with George Galloway, a politician and the Respect Member of Parliament, at the Al Salam Rotana Hotel lobby, Khartoum, in a response to his invitation to have a historic cup of coffee with him, I recalled old philosophical views saying that: a politician is born a “politician” and a leader is born a “leader”
In fact, you don’t have stare at the man and listen to his powerful voice and ability to speak and narrate situations and challenge to feel that you are in front of a world top class leader and politician. This London-based man with Irish roots and Scottish by birth, would have taken a different course and easily made his way to become a prime minister because his talent is inferior to none of those who have held this post; however, his principles molded him into a different person to engrave his name in Western history to represent wakeful and human conscience unyielding to international imperialism in the name civilization. He is the man who sees that all sons of human family are equal.
Q: As far as my knowledge is concerned, this is your second visit to Sudan. Were there other visits? When was the first visit? And, what is your new impression?
A: Actually, this is my second visit after a long time almost half of my age. I was in Sudan in early eighties due to my work in Eritrea to distribute humanitarian relief aid as director of Radical Support Organization. I visited Khartoum and Kassala from where got into Eritrea during the war famine. In Khartoum, I was a witness to the Intifada of 1985. That is why in my second visit to the country I told them that when I last visited Sudan the regime was overthrown and I hope my current visit will be light on Sudanese this time. in fact, Sudan has become very different, or more precisely, Khartoum has change a great deal - manifested in infrastructures, roads and many structures – to become very big and vast city. However, what makes me unhappy is Sudan split into two countries. I wish division stopped at this limit.
Q: Did expect to leave Sudan and never get back until it divides into two states?
A: Honestly, I would have never predicted. But, the reasons for targeting Sudan are no different to those of targeting Venezuela, or Iraq or others: presence of oil that will lay basis for a strong economy and strong state in the presence of dignity, honor and independent orientation. I know Sudanese. I think are most dignified nation in the Arab world although I have not visited Sudan over the past long period, but there are many Sudanese in London and other cities of Britain. Also there are many of them in Ireland. All of them are qualified, distinguished and respectful cadres with dignity, honor and clear personality.
A British Professor said that Sudanese left stereotypical image in the minds of Brits since the time of Mahdist who fought the British and that Sudanese are now footing the bill of their forefathers’ actions.
I don’t think this is true. When Kitchener’s troops committed some disgraceful acts toward Al-Mahdi’s grave, Kitchener appeared angry and was clearly critical of those troops. Britain respects Sudan and Sudanese very much. The Sudanese embassy is currently located near the Queen’s premises, a status not available for many states. As I said earlier, Sudanese presented an honorable model for their country. I have never heard a single bad word about them. Those who I got acquainted with in Britain are well-cultivated and fluent in English better than other Arabs. For instance, the Sudanese medical personnel are most outstanding.
Q: Did you mean that the historical stereotype was hostile to Western Interests?
A: Maybe, but the reality is that after the Cold War, Islam emerged or we can say the Imperialist forces rendered it as alternative enemy to Communism and that Islam becomes a danger that is threatening Western civilization in the view of some. Here, the phenomena of targeting some countries have started to grow. In this context, Sudan along with other Third World oil rich nations are being targeted. The fact is such force was latent for them even if they were not Muslims. Take for example, Venezuela and its president Hugo Chavez; he is my big and dear friend. This man is elected and enjoys overwhelming popularity in a democratic system. But they are dealing with as a dictator just because he says “No”. There are many examples like Saddam Hussein who was a good person when he was allying with them against Iran. He turned a bad guy when the alliance was over. Their position on you is determined by submission to imperialistic polices not other things.
Q: Earlier you mentioned that Sudan’s real crimes were extraction of oil by Chinese companies in addition to Sudanese dignity and honor. Could Sudan’s positions in support of Palestinians be part of the reasons? Also, there the issue of International Criminal against Al-Bashir, in particular, which evoked huge reactions across the globe over targeting not only Sudan or Al-Bashir but also Africa. Don’t you thing that Al-Bashir’s real crimes are that you have mention but they are using the ICC and human rights to cover the real bill of indictment?
A: Of course, these are the crimes of Sudan. We can also add to them Sudan’s position supporting the Palestinian cause and their rights. As for the ICC, it one of imperialism tools because if the court was serious about chasing war criminals it should have started with Tony Blair and Gorge W. Bush because they committed crimes whose effects have continued even after their going out of power. Up to the moment, Iraq is living in a state of instability, terror and killing because of Tony Blair’s and Bush’s crimes. Who would hold them accountable? Nobody! Therefore, when they pursuit Al-Bashir, whose real crimes are his country’s dignity, extraction of oil by Chinese companies, his support for Palestinian cause, etc. they would have never thought of him - for any reason - if he had not done those things.
Q: In this context, came the recent Israeli attack. What do you make of it?
A: Israeli was dependent on dictatorial governments but the winds of Arab Spring blew against their want – in the sense of threatening their existence, and also its international presence has begun to evaporate. Accordingly, it will launch such assaults to make up for some of its power it has lost, but it is useless. The reality around it [Israel] and the international situation have changed. Everything has changed…even monopolizing information and control on media is no longer possible. The information revolution has removed all iron barriers. Arab peoples have begun to find their way. Their will shall win eventually…even in the West people’s view on Palestinian –Israeli conflict has started to change day after day.
Q: You were expelled from Egypt while trying to enter Ghaza through Rafah Crossing to deliver relief on Freedom Convoy. How did you feel at that moment?
A: I really felt proud of what happened. I was popular among Egyptians and got more popular than before. Even at the airport while guards were trying to board me on the plane, some personnel approached me and kissed me on the head.
Q: Could you tell us a bit about the repercussions of the expulsion?
A: Around twenty Egyptian intelligence or security personnel came forward and took me by force into a car. When I called the British ambassador in Cairo and told him that I was a British MP and wan taken to an unknown place without any reason, they took the phone from me and transferred me to another location. Those twenty guys followed me where I went…even when I wanted to go the bathroom they went in with me. Maybe, they received tough instructions to do so, but they behaved like that. When somebody from the Foreign Ministry came to tell me that I was “persona non grata”, and that they would never allow my entry in Egypt, I told him “forever” is a long time and that I will enter and your president would turn out “persona non grata”. I recall those words up to the moment. Days passed by and Mubarak got overthrown. I have visited five times after the revolution.
Q: Do you think your expulsion in addition to weak and disappointing positions by governments might have triggered the Arab Spring?
A: Certainly, Arab governments’ absence from their people’s concern was a major cause of their end. Imperialistic Western nations want weak, stooge and powerless government while people refuse that.
Q: Earlier you spoke of “Sykes-Picot 2”. Could you give us a brief explanation?
A: Ironically, I spent my entire life criticizing the “Sykes-Picot Agreement” and now I think “Sykes-Picot 2” has emerged. In my view, it would far worse than the previous because it aims to divide big nations into emirates and tiny on ethnic and ideological basis so that they would continue to fight one another.
Q: How can we stand up against the second Sykes-Picot?
A: The seeds of the second Sykes-Picot are in the first one. If we did not understand what happened in the past, we would not understand what they are plotting presently. But generally speaking, Arab countries should plan for their unity – or at least sinking their differences that were actually created by the West. How come two state fight over borders demarcated by strangers?! Besides, dividing and undermining identity, all of these plots stem from “divide and rule” policy, continuing up to the moment.
By Mekki Al Maghrebi
In fact, you don’t have stare at the man and listen to his powerful voice and ability to speak and narrate situations and challenge to feel that you are in front of a world top class leader and politician. This London-based man with Irish roots and Scottish by birth, would have taken a different course and easily made his way to become a prime minister because his talent is inferior to none of those who have held this post; however, his principles molded him into a different person to engrave his name in Western history to represent wakeful and human conscience unyielding to international imperialism in the name civilization. He is the man who sees that all sons of human family are equal.
Q: As far as my knowledge is concerned, this is your second visit to Sudan. Were there other visits? When was the first visit? And, what is your new impression?
A: Actually, this is my second visit after a long time almost half of my age. I was in Sudan in early eighties due to my work in Eritrea to distribute humanitarian relief aid as director of Radical Support Organization. I visited Khartoum and Kassala from where got into Eritrea during the war famine. In Khartoum, I was a witness to the Intifada of 1985. That is why in my second visit to the country I told them that when I last visited Sudan the regime was overthrown and I hope my current visit will be light on Sudanese this time. in fact, Sudan has become very different, or more precisely, Khartoum has change a great deal - manifested in infrastructures, roads and many structures – to become very big and vast city. However, what makes me unhappy is Sudan split into two countries. I wish division stopped at this limit.
Q: Did expect to leave Sudan and never get back until it divides into two states?
A: Honestly, I would have never predicted. But, the reasons for targeting Sudan are no different to those of targeting Venezuela, or Iraq or others: presence of oil that will lay basis for a strong economy and strong state in the presence of dignity, honor and independent orientation. I know Sudanese. I think are most dignified nation in the Arab world although I have not visited Sudan over the past long period, but there are many Sudanese in London and other cities of Britain. Also there are many of them in Ireland. All of them are qualified, distinguished and respectful cadres with dignity, honor and clear personality.
A British Professor said that Sudanese left stereotypical image in the minds of Brits since the time of Mahdist who fought the British and that Sudanese are now footing the bill of their forefathers’ actions.
I don’t think this is true. When Kitchener’s troops committed some disgraceful acts toward Al-Mahdi’s grave, Kitchener appeared angry and was clearly critical of those troops. Britain respects Sudan and Sudanese very much. The Sudanese embassy is currently located near the Queen’s premises, a status not available for many states. As I said earlier, Sudanese presented an honorable model for their country. I have never heard a single bad word about them. Those who I got acquainted with in Britain are well-cultivated and fluent in English better than other Arabs. For instance, the Sudanese medical personnel are most outstanding.
Q: Did you mean that the historical stereotype was hostile to Western Interests?
A: Maybe, but the reality is that after the Cold War, Islam emerged or we can say the Imperialist forces rendered it as alternative enemy to Communism and that Islam becomes a danger that is threatening Western civilization in the view of some. Here, the phenomena of targeting some countries have started to grow. In this context, Sudan along with other Third World oil rich nations are being targeted. The fact is such force was latent for them even if they were not Muslims. Take for example, Venezuela and its president Hugo Chavez; he is my big and dear friend. This man is elected and enjoys overwhelming popularity in a democratic system. But they are dealing with as a dictator just because he says “No”. There are many examples like Saddam Hussein who was a good person when he was allying with them against Iran. He turned a bad guy when the alliance was over. Their position on you is determined by submission to imperialistic polices not other things.
Q: Earlier you mentioned that Sudan’s real crimes were extraction of oil by Chinese companies in addition to Sudanese dignity and honor. Could Sudan’s positions in support of Palestinians be part of the reasons? Also, there the issue of International Criminal against Al-Bashir, in particular, which evoked huge reactions across the globe over targeting not only Sudan or Al-Bashir but also Africa. Don’t you thing that Al-Bashir’s real crimes are that you have mention but they are using the ICC and human rights to cover the real bill of indictment?
A: Of course, these are the crimes of Sudan. We can also add to them Sudan’s position supporting the Palestinian cause and their rights. As for the ICC, it one of imperialism tools because if the court was serious about chasing war criminals it should have started with Tony Blair and Gorge W. Bush because they committed crimes whose effects have continued even after their going out of power. Up to the moment, Iraq is living in a state of instability, terror and killing because of Tony Blair’s and Bush’s crimes. Who would hold them accountable? Nobody! Therefore, when they pursuit Al-Bashir, whose real crimes are his country’s dignity, extraction of oil by Chinese companies, his support for Palestinian cause, etc. they would have never thought of him - for any reason - if he had not done those things.
Q: In this context, came the recent Israeli attack. What do you make of it?
A: Israeli was dependent on dictatorial governments but the winds of Arab Spring blew against their want – in the sense of threatening their existence, and also its international presence has begun to evaporate. Accordingly, it will launch such assaults to make up for some of its power it has lost, but it is useless. The reality around it [Israel] and the international situation have changed. Everything has changed…even monopolizing information and control on media is no longer possible. The information revolution has removed all iron barriers. Arab peoples have begun to find their way. Their will shall win eventually…even in the West people’s view on Palestinian –Israeli conflict has started to change day after day.
Q: You were expelled from Egypt while trying to enter Ghaza through Rafah Crossing to deliver relief on Freedom Convoy. How did you feel at that moment?
A: I really felt proud of what happened. I was popular among Egyptians and got more popular than before. Even at the airport while guards were trying to board me on the plane, some personnel approached me and kissed me on the head.
Q: Could you tell us a bit about the repercussions of the expulsion?
A: Around twenty Egyptian intelligence or security personnel came forward and took me by force into a car. When I called the British ambassador in Cairo and told him that I was a British MP and wan taken to an unknown place without any reason, they took the phone from me and transferred me to another location. Those twenty guys followed me where I went…even when I wanted to go the bathroom they went in with me. Maybe, they received tough instructions to do so, but they behaved like that. When somebody from the Foreign Ministry came to tell me that I was “persona non grata”, and that they would never allow my entry in Egypt, I told him “forever” is a long time and that I will enter and your president would turn out “persona non grata”. I recall those words up to the moment. Days passed by and Mubarak got overthrown. I have visited five times after the revolution.
Q: Do you think your expulsion in addition to weak and disappointing positions by governments might have triggered the Arab Spring?
A: Certainly, Arab governments’ absence from their people’s concern was a major cause of their end. Imperialistic Western nations want weak, stooge and powerless government while people refuse that.
Q: Earlier you spoke of “Sykes-Picot 2”. Could you give us a brief explanation?
A: Ironically, I spent my entire life criticizing the “Sykes-Picot Agreement” and now I think “Sykes-Picot 2” has emerged. In my view, it would far worse than the previous because it aims to divide big nations into emirates and tiny on ethnic and ideological basis so that they would continue to fight one another.
Q: How can we stand up against the second Sykes-Picot?
A: The seeds of the second Sykes-Picot are in the first one. If we did not understand what happened in the past, we would not understand what they are plotting presently. But generally speaking, Arab countries should plan for their unity – or at least sinking their differences that were actually created by the West. How come two state fight over borders demarcated by strangers?! Besides, dividing and undermining identity, all of these plots stem from “divide and rule” policy, continuing up to the moment.
By Mekki Al Maghrebi