I wish Cruz Trump exhange on tariffs would have went a step further.

[RBIII]

They almost got to the root of the issue which i believe why Trump would have ultimately loss that issue The root issue would have came down to slave labor had they continued.

Trump said he would increase tariffs on imports in order to get, lets say China, to behave.
Cruz responds that would be a tax on the American people as the cost would just get passed to US citizens.
Trump responded saying, "no what would happen is if they don't behave then we will build factories here and produce our own products."

He gets large applause and the moderators moved on.

China has over a billion people and many of the ones who make our products are working in slave like conditions, i remember seeing a documentary of a factory that had suicide nets surrounding the building because people would jump out of windows from time to time.

They would have to address slave labor in order to properly discuss trade deals and tariffs.
Our throw away society would drastically change if we start building things here and the prices of electronics jump up astronomically.


Yes? Amiright?

 

[OrphanSlug]

The elephant in the room is not the tariffs, or even the threat of it (as Trump put it.)

The biggest issue we face is political decisions causing massive economic consequences. Like it or not, agree with it or not... it took time to develop this economic model we run of "globalization," working with emerging markets, international labor competition, offshoring production and manufacturing of various goods, etc. Not just cheep goods and products at Walmart and Target, but production equipment and electronics, multinational organizations producing many goods, core materials for products, automotive industry labor movements, etc. The list is damn near endless.

To change these trends means making gradual changes to influence an different economic outcome, and neither Trump or Cruz were really speaking on that level. The generalities they are going with, the rhetoric of these debates, clouds the issue.

Politics is again colliding with economics, and if we are not careful we will cause real harm very fast.

 

[Frank Apisa]

They almost got to the root of the issue which i believe why Trump would have ultimately loss that issue The root issue would have came down to slave labor had they continued.

Trump said he would increase tariffs on imports in order to get, lets say China, to behave.
Cruz responds that would be a tax on the American people as the cost would just get passed to US citizens.
Trump responded saying, "no what would happen is if they don't behave then we will build factories here and produce our own products."

He gets large applause and the moderators moved on.

China has over a billion people and many of the ones who make our products are working in slave like conditions, i remember seeing a documentary of a factory that had suicide nets surrounding the building because people would jump out of windows from time to time.

They would have to address slave labor in order to properly discuss trade deals and tariffs.
Our throw away society would drastically change if we start building things here and the prices of electronics jump up astronomically.


Yes? Amiright?

Actually...Trump is right.

Only thing he has to figure out is how to get American workers to accept 65 cents an hour as a wage...and all those jobs we've lost to China will come back here in a trice.

Americans are so materialistic, though. They want to earn more than 65 cents an hour.

I'm sure Donald Trump, with all his business experience, should be able to figure out how to reason with them...and make sanity prevail in this country once again.

Don'tcha think?

 

[laska]

I also thought that was the most interesting part of the debate and wished it would have continued.

I am no fan of Cruz but it almost made me like him. Besides lower prices from free trade that benefit consumers a lot of people do not realize cheaper prices further creates new jobs. For example if a Japanese tv costs $400 less than an American made one, the American consumer has $400 more to spend on something else.Maybe they use these savings to buy an American made lawnmower to go with the tv. Without these savings maybe the lawnmower manufacturer doesn't exist and the American consumer is stuck with a lower quality higher cost TV and no lawnmower. Multiply that by billions of transactions and you can begin to see how free trade makes nations wealthier.The smart thing policy wise to do is not have trade wars and tarrifs but eliminate all taxes direct and indirect on corporations and business including companies having to provide employee health insurance and drastically lower companies accounting and legal fees through much smarter tax and regulation policy. No one wants to have low employee slave type salaries so if we were smart and taxed dividends and owner salaries and eliminate the other business costs, U.S. companies would be way more competive even with higher employee salaries. There would be other advantages for the U.S. compared to Third world slave labor like good infrastructure, good financial system, rule of law, safety, liw shipping costs being in a huge market, wide array of emoloyee skill sets available. Do the changed above and I'm confident we'd have no high paying job problem but a surplus. Going the tariff no free trade route may put us in a depression or at least lower living standards imho.

 

[274ina]

Actually...Trump is right.

Only thing he has to figure out is how to get American workers to accept 65 cents an hour as a wage...and all those jobs we've lost to China will come back here in a trice.

Americans are so materialistic, though. They want to earn more than 65 cents an hour.

I'm sure Donald Trump, with all his business experience, should be able to figure out how to reason with them...and make sanity prevail in this country once again.

Don'tcha think?

Solution is simple.
Don't trade at all with slave based economy's.

 

[274ina]

Correct. 100% spot on.

America needs a full discussion of trading with slave based economy's.

See, even Julius Caesar, made sure to keep 1/2 of the cattlemen jobs for freed men............and gave land
to his retiring soldiers. Protecting the free men from the cheaper slave labor.

USA says FU to both.............

 

[274ina]

I also thought that was the most interesting part of the debate and wished it would have continued.

I am no fan of Cruz but it almost made me like him. Besides lower prices from free trade that benefit consumers a lot of people do not realize cheaper prices further creates new jobs. For example if a Japanese tv costs $400 less than an American made one, the American consumer has $400 more to spend on something else.Maybe they use these savings to buy an American made lawnmower to go with the tv. Without these savings maybe the lawnmower manufacturer doesn't exist and the American consumer is stuck with a lower quality higher cost TV and no lawnmower. Multiply that by billions of transactions and you can begin to see how free trade makes nations wealthier.The smart thing policy wise to do is not have trade wars and tarrifs but eliminate all taxes direct and indirect on corporations and business including companies having to provide employee health insurance and drastically lower companies accounting and legal fees through much smarter tax and regulation policy. No one wants to have low employee slave type salaries so if we were smart and taxed dividends and owner salaries and eliminate the other business costs, U.S. companies would be way more competive even with higher employee salaries. There would be other advantages for the U.S. compared to Third world slave labor like good infrastructure, good financial system, rule of law, safety, liw shipping costs being in a huge market, wide array of emoloyee skill sets available. Do the changed above and I'm confident we'd have no high paying job problem but a surplus. Going the tariff no free trade route may put us in a depression or at least lower living standards imho.

A cheaper TV, while you live on the street, or live on the street and work a PT min wage job
is a recipe for ................


We have listened to your free trade lies for 30 years.

The result is here.



You will note the "Free Trade" cartoon is from the 1980's.

TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[laska]

A cheaper TV, while you live on the street, or live on the street and work a PT min wage job
is a recipe for ................
View attachment 67198519

We have listened to your free trade lies for 30 years.

The result is here.

View attachment 67198520View attachment 67198521View attachment 67198522

You will note the "Free Trade" cartoon is from the 1980's.

TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah and the Mayans cut down the rainforest and eliminated much of their future water supply. Point being there is many unintended consequences to protectionism. Maybe I'm the only blue collar guy that supports free trade but I've taken econ 101. If you think of it in the most simple terms, a trade that is completely transparent for both sides, is not done unless both sides benefit. Freedom. My strategy is just stop giving U.S. companies such a disadvantage with such huge costs because of stupid tax and regulatory codes(and the added costs of providing employee health insurance). Take these added costs away from American products and we'd kill it on exports and having tons of high paying blue collar jobs. Its easy math. Instead of American companies selling to only like 5% of the world market, it opens up to hundreds of millions of more consumers. If we do that and make sure all countries involved in free trade agreements play by the rules, its win win. Then maybe after everyone figures out materialism doesn't lead to happiness and that the word Mormon means love established forever in Egyptian, not by coincidence, we can all freely adopt a higher economic order-the law of consecration. Oh yeah [emoji111]

 

[Frank Apisa]

Yeah and the Mayans cut down the rainforest and eliminated much of their future water supply. Point being there is many unintended consequences to protectionism. Maybe I'm the only blue collar guy that supports free trade but I've taken econ 101. If you think of it in the most simple terms, a trade that is completely transparent for both sides, is not done unless both sides benefit. Freedom. My strategy is just stop giving U.S. companies such a disadvantage with such huge costs because of stupid tax and regulatory codes(and the added costs of providing employee health insurance). Take these added costs away from American products and we'd kill it on exports and having tons of high paying blue collar jobs. Its easy math. Instead of American companies selling to only like 5% of the world market, it opens up to hundreds of millions of more consumers. If we do that and make sure all countries involved in free trade agreements play by the rules, its win win. Then maybe after everyone figures out materialism doesn't lead to happiness and that the word Mormon means love established forever in Egyptian, not by coincidence, we can all freely adopt a higher economic order-the law of consecration. Oh yeah [emoji111]

So your solution is to give corporations greater tax breaks...and fewer regulations.

My way is better...and gets to same point easier.

Just get the greedy American workers to work for 65 cent an hour...and we not only get all the jobs we've lost back, we'd probably get job orders coming in from Bangladesh.

Simplest solution I can come up with.

 

[laska]

So your solution is to give corporations greater tax breaks...and fewer regulations.

My way is better...and gets to same point easier.

Just get the greedy American workers to work for 65 cent an hour...and we not only get all the jobs we've lost back, we'd probably get job orders coming in from Bangladesh.

Simplest solution I can come up with.

Well if you attack job creation with high governmental costs a business may have the only choice of paying workers slave labor or closing. Under my plan I favor raising minimum wage to say $15/hr which a business is more likely able to do if they have lower costs in taxes, insurance, accounting, and legal fees.

 

[laska]

See how say a Bernie's desire to stick it to business really just takes resources away for working people's wages. My policies would differentiate between a businesses revenue and owner's salaries and dividends. Under my plan I raise real taxes on the top 1% on their personal income to a real 30% which I believe is currently around 20% after all the deductions. I tax capital gains like regular income except when companies offer stock to raise capital, and then it would be 15%. Hedge fund managers wilk likely be paying a real 30% instead of rates something like half that in current system. I have 0% rate in first $25, 000 of personal income and want states to exempt wholefoods, rent, ect from sales tax. I want to raise minimum wage to living wage. See my desire to lower business taxes is not your typical GOP establishment save money for the rich, it is to help the working poor.

 

[274ina]

Yeah and the Mayans cut down the rainforest and eliminated much of their future water supply. Point being there is many unintended consequences to protectionism. Maybe I'm the only blue collar guy that supports free trade but I've taken econ 101. If you think of it in the most simple terms, a trade that is completely transparent for both sides, is not done unless both sides benefit. Freedom. My strategy is just stop giving U.S. companies such a disadvantage with such huge costs because of stupid tax and regulatory codes(and the added costs of providing employee health insurance). Take these added costs away from American products and we'd kill it on exports and having tons of high paying blue collar jobs. Its easy math. Instead of American companies selling to only like 5% of the world market, it opens up to hundreds of millions of more consumers. If we do that and make sure all countries involved in free trade agreements play by the rules, its win win. Then maybe after everyone figures out materialism doesn't lead to happiness and that the word Mormon means love established forever in Egyptian, not by coincidence, we can all freely adopt a higher economic order-the law of consecration. Oh yeah [emoji111]

Trouble is, China is doing neo mercantilism. They even say USA can only release 10 (?) movies a year in China.
And your econ 101 says the Huiku slave at $1 hr, will steal all the jobs. Along with currency manipulation. Obama says DOUBLE USA exports. They have been REDUCED in 8 years.

Does this look like fair trade to you?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100392717
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/22/business/energy-environment/22iht-rare.html?src=busln&_r=0
China's college grads toil in 'ant tribes' - World news - Asia-Pacific - China | NBC News
Jobless and hopeless in America - CNN.com
http://www.newsweek.com/makings-trade-war-china-71999
14 MORE movies a YEAR allowed in China! Good job US trade REP! (Hang the moron)
"
China has remained mostly closed to Hollywood, with a quota of 20 foreign films per year, most of them being from the United States. Under the agreement, announced during U.S. Vice President Joe Biden’s trip to Los Angeles with his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping, 14 additional IMAX or 3D films would be allowed. Foreign film companies will also be permitted to take a 25% cut of the box office, nearly double the current 13%-17%."

TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!vTRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!TRUMP!!!

 

[laska]

Do Chinese consumers benefit with this protectionist policy? Maybe, given what comes out of Hollywood. I've never stated we shouldn't do things differently with China. I've floated the idea of subtracting copyright infringement costs that China steals from American companies from our Chinese debt. We likely need to do something to open up Chinese markets to American products. I'm not saying Trump is completely wrong. I havent formed opinions here yet. What I am saying is where countries are playing by the same rules and there is no tarifs on all sides, and if the U.S. would eliminate stupid costs on our products our government has placed on them that make us less competitive and that drive down our wages, free trade benefits all sides.

I do think we need to be careful and think things through carefully with China as both sides economy is so dependant on the other. For example in an already sluggish economy and high consumer debt what will it do to the U.S. economy if most prices rise significantly because of high tariffs on Chinese made goods. With so many people living pay check to pay check enjoying low cost products made by Chinese slave labor maybe it causes rampant bankruptcies and leads to a depression. Unintended consequences most Trump supporters likely never even considered.

 

[reinoe]

They almost got to the root of the issue which i believe why Trump would have ultimately loss that issue The root issue would have came down to slave labor had they continued.

Trump said he would increase tariffs on imports in order to get, lets say China, to behave.
Cruz responds that would be a tax on the American people as the cost would just get passed to US citizens.
Trump responded saying, "no what would happen is if they don't behave then we will build factories here and produce our own products."

He gets large applause and the moderators moved on.

China has over a billion people and many of the ones who make our products are working in slave like conditions, i remember seeing a documentary of a factory that had suicide nets surrounding the building because people would jump out of windows from time to time.

They would have to address slave labor in order to properly discuss trade deals and tariffs.
Our throw away society would drastically change if we start building things here and the prices of electronics jump up astronomically.


Yes? Amiright?

I don't care how China treats their citizens. If China wants slavery then it's up to the Chinese citizens to do something about it.

 

[laska]

Another unintended consequence of a high tariff on Chinese made products is that U.S. consumers because of higher prices they will have less money and this will have an effect on them buying the products they had been buying that are American made. In this way it will cost U.S. jobs.

As a consumer it's not so bad if someone wants to sell you something at a lower cost. I'd rather be an American who can watch a movie or listen to music from anywhere than be a Chinese citizen and have to listen to say Chinese rap or metal. We have a higher living standard, cleaner air and water, can have as many kids that we want. Freedom not so bad.

 

[SocialD]

They almost got to the root of the issue which i believe why Trump would have ultimately loss that issue The root issue would have came down to slave labor had they continued.

Trump said he would increase tariffs on imports in order to get, lets say China, to behave.
Cruz responds that would be a tax on the American people as the cost would just get passed to US citizens.
Trump responded saying, "no what would happen is if they don't behave then we will build factories here and produce our own products."

He gets large applause and the moderators moved on.

China has over a billion people and many of the ones who make our products are working in slave like conditions, i remember seeing a documentary of a factory that had suicide nets surrounding the building because people would jump out of windows from time to time.

They would have to address slave labor in order to properly discuss trade deals and tariffs.
Our throw away society would drastically change if we start building things here and the prices of electronics jump up astronomically.


Yes? Amiright?

Slave labor as you refer to it is a result of a bad trade deal. Adding a tariff wouldn't be the solution that's true.
The trade agreements need to be renegotiated and include a requirement that have to have some kind of civil working and labor conditions in any factory that produces goods that exports to the usa. There will need to be inspections and oversight on this and it would need to be a joint effort on both governments and China ( or any other country we have agreements with ) should have to share in the cost of that oversight as well.
All our trade agreements need to be done this way. yes the cost of goods will likely rise, but at the same time it will be less attractive for that offshoring and at least some jobs will come back here.

 

[reinoe]

Another unintended consequence of a high tariff on Chinese made products is that U.S. consumers because of higher prices they will have less money and this will have an effect on them buying the products they had been buying that are American made. In this way it will cost U.S. jobs.

As a consumer it's not so bad if someone wants to sell you something at a lower cost. I'd rather be an American who can watch a movie or listen to music from anywhere than be a Chinese citizen and have to listen to say Chinese rap or metal. We have a higher living standard, cleaner air and water, can have as many kids that we want. Freedom not so bad.

Prices haven't gone down as a result of Free Trade as it is...The American dollar isn't buying more products and it isn't going further. There hasn't been some huge decrease in products as a result of all this cheap labor. It's just the American people getting fleeced.

 

[RBIII]

I don't care how China treats their citizens. If China wants slavery then it's up to the Chinese citizens to do something about it.

What lol? I'm sure the slaves don't want slavery.

 

[reinoe]

What lol? I'm sure the slaves don't want slavery.

There's over a billion Chinese citizens who aren't part of the bureaucracy. If they wanted to do something I'm sure they could.

 

[laska]

Prices haven't gone down as a result of Free Trade as it is...The American dollar isn't buying more products and it isn't going further. There hasn't been some huge decrease in products as a result of all this cheap labor. It's just the American people getting fleeced.

Here you go my friend:

 

[laska]

Eeek@$# didn't realize the video header would do that. Not intended.

 

[274ina]

fact is we made all our own stuff before. And we could afford it.

Time to do it again.

Because America will not be slaves. War first.