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I finally understand what forgiveness is...and is not

2distracted

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I never could fully understand how forgiveness worked... Because if u just let everything evil go, saying I forgive, I forgive, no problem, I forgive......and everyone else in society does the same..u have anarchy.

Someone kills someone and the victim's family forgives the killer but of course justice still has to be done. So I just seeed to be missing some piece of the forgiveness puzzle.

So I did 2 thing

I did a search

And then, I got enlightened by the daily scripture rgs on Thursday at Mass

I can't quite recall the author of the article I found when I Searched but it was good. It was about how forgiving doesn't mean...( Not sure that I ever accepted that it did)..staying involved w the abusive person. It means you give up on ideas of revenge...

Then there was the ready ng at Mass

Mt 1823 in which a person is brought before a judge and is not able to pay a debt. But he asks for time to pay it. The judge has compassion and forgives the whole debt. Then the absolved o one goes out and finds someone who owes him a lesser amount. Give me time, the guy says, and I will pay u back-- the same words the other guy had just said to the judge but the absolved one wouldn't give him time to pay back the debt. He demanded he pay back all asap.

People told the judge..or was it a king? ..about this and the..I'll say King got angry at the unforging servant

I forgave your whole debt, said the king, but u refused to forgive a smaller debt..

So the king revokes the forgiveness ( my words) and makes him pay back the entire debt that had once been written off

Well, only God has the right to do that kind of thing so the king is analagous to God.

in any case, here is a part of that psg i always overlooked

The part about saying

I will pay you back or I will pay the debt

If given time

Ok..so what if someone says he she is sorry for ABC but you see the apology is insincere? It is insincere bc the person keeps doing the same thing, doesn't exhibit the least bit of remorse..and most importantly, doesn't offer to pay the debt incurred by the selfish , evil action he or she took against u?


Domestic abuse survivors are often wrongly told to forgive the abuser bc that's the Christian way, and that forgiveness always seems to involve staying in the relationship

Forget it...

I've heard..plus observed..that very rarely do domestic abusers ever change

There are other abusers who also do not change.. bad, narcisstic parents, friends, etc

I say stay away from them

Of course sometimes staying away enrages the abuser..so I cannot give advice in a blanket kind of way but I myself stay away from abusive people if possible
 
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2distracted

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So basically, if someone is not willing to make some ki.nd of restitution, or amens, the apologies can be written off as insincere and worthless

Some debts can technically never be paid..the damage a neglecting parent inflicts for example, but there are ways to pay back debts in some small way.


Also, this psg is said by some theologians to be about purgatory, where our unfinished expiation ..debt paying. is done before entering heaven..

But some theologians say the one who refused to give time to the other servant to pay the debt off went to hell..Jesus said

If u don't forgive u will not be able to forgiven
 

Valery

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Everybody forgiving makes anarchy?!? How???

Sir, you are making things complicated when they are simple.
 

Dragonfly

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I never could fully understand how forgiveness worked... Because if u just let everything evil go, saying I forgive, I forgive, no problem, I forgive......and everyone else in society does the same..u have anarchy.

So it's perfectly clear from the very first sentence that your thread title is 100% undeniably wrong.

Therefore I see no reason to read the rest of this rambling screed.
 

bongsaway

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I never could fully understand how forgiveness worked... Because if u just let everything evil go, saying I forgive, I forgive, no problem, I forgive......and everyone else in society does the same..u have anarchy.

Someone kills someone and the victim's family forgives the killer but of course justice still has to be done. So I just seeed to be missing some piece of the forgiveness puzzle.

So I did 2 thing

I did a search

And then, I got enlightened by the daily scripture rgs on Thursday at Mass

I can't quite recall the author of the article I found when I Searched but it was good. It was about how forgiving doesn't mean...( Not sure that I ever accepted that it did)..staying involved w the abusive person. It means you give up on ideas of revenge...

Then there was the ready ng at Mass

Mt 1823 in which a person is brought before a judge and is not able to pay a debt. But he asks for time to pay it. The judge has compassion and forgives the whole debt. Then the absolved o one goes out and finds someone who owes him a lesser amount. Give me time, the guy says, and I will pay u back-- the same words the other guy had just said to the judge but the absolved one wouldn't give him time to pay back the debt. He demanded he pay back all asap.

People told the judge..or was it a king? ..about this and the..I'll say King got angry at the unforging servant

I forgave your whole debt, said the king, but u refused to forgive a smaller debt..

So the king revokes the forgiveness ( my words) and makes him pay back the entire debt that had once been written off

Well, only God has the right to do that kind of thing so the king is analagous to God.

in any case, here is a part of that psg i always overlooked

The part about saying

I will pay you back or I will pay the debt

If given time

Ok..so what if someone says he she is sorry for ABC but you see the apology is insincere? It is insincere bc the person keeps doing the same thing, doesn't exhibit the least bit of remorse..and most importantly, doesn't offer to pay the debt incurred by the selfish , evil action he or she took against u?


Domestic abuse survivors are often wrongly told to forgive the abuser bc that's the Christian way, and that forgiveness always seems to involve staying in the relationship

Forget it...

I've heard..plus observed..that very rarely do domestic abusers ever change

There are other abusers who also do not change.. bad, narcisstic parents, friends, etc

I say stay away from them

Of course sometimes staying away enrages the abuser..so I cannot give advice in a blanket kind of way but I myself stay away from abusive people if possible

Bad narcissistic parents like donald trump?
 

d0gbreath

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Forgiving is the blessing unto oneself.
 

2distracted

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Should have said

Virtually everyone.. bc if everyone forgave and meant it there would be no more crime or sin

But anyhow..

From what I gather, we are to forgive when someone is sincerely sorry and trying to make amends

If a person keeps walking over the flowers in your garden every day but says I'm sorry every day, only to do it again...

I don't think we should just say Oh, I forgive, no problem!

The anarchists in Portland and elsewhere are counting on ppl having the wrong ideas on forgiveness

And other things
 

Stealers Wheel

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I never could fully understand how forgiveness worked... Because if u just let everything evil go, saying I forgive, I forgive, no problem, I forgive......and everyone else in society does the same..u have anarchy.

Someone kills someone and the victim's family forgives the killer but of course justice still has to be done. So I just seeed to be missing some piece of the forgiveness puzzle.

So I did 2 thing

I did a search

And then, I got enlightened by the daily scripture rgs on Thursday at Mass

I can't quite recall the author of the article I found when I Searched but it was good. It was about how forgiving doesn't mean...( Not sure that I ever accepted that it did)..staying involved w the abusive person. It means you give up on ideas of revenge...

Then there was the ready ng at Mass

Mt 1823 in which a person is brought before a judge and is not able to pay a debt. But he asks for time to pay it. The judge has compassion and forgives the whole debt. Then the absolved o one goes out and finds someone who owes him a lesser amount. Give me time, the guy says, and I will pay u back-- the same words the other guy had just said to the judge but the absolved one wouldn't give him time to pay back the debt. He demanded he pay back all asap.

People told the judge..or was it a king? ..about this and the..I'll say King got angry at the unforging servant

I forgave your whole debt, said the king, but u refused to forgive a smaller debt..

So the king revokes the forgiveness ( my words) and makes him pay back the entire debt that had once been written off

Well, only God has the right to do that kind of thing so the king is analagous to God.

in any case, here is a part of that psg i always overlooked

The part about saying

I will pay you back or I will pay the debt

If given time

Ok..so what if someone says he she is sorry for ABC but you see the apology is insincere? It is insincere bc the person keeps doing the same thing, doesn't exhibit the least bit of remorse..and most importantly, doesn't offer to pay the debt incurred by the selfish , evil action he or she took against u?


Domestic abuse survivors are often wrongly told to forgive the abuser bc that's the Christian way, and that forgiveness always seems to involve staying in the relationship

Forget it...

I've heard..plus observed..that very rarely do domestic abusers ever change

There are other abusers who also do not change.. bad, narcisstic parents, friends, etc

I say stay away from them

Of course sometimes staying away enrages the abuser..so I cannot give advice in a blanket kind of way but I myself stay away from abusive people if possible

Forgiveness is not the same as rejecting consequences. You can forgive someone for committing a crime against you, but that does not mean they don't have to make restitution or pay other penalties. One can forgive an abusive spouse, but that does not mean that spouse gets to continue abusing. God does not expect anyone to be a doormat. You can say "I forgive you. Now pack up you **** and get out." Move on with your life and do not burden yourself with their abuse ever again.
 

HK.227

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I never could fully understand how forgiveness worked...

It gives you peace.
Psychologically speaking, it is a way of fixing unresolved issues bouncing around inside your skull and lowering your quality of life.
So it can be recommended whether you are a believer or not, even if only out of enlightened self-interest.

Of course so does revenge to some extent, but it tends to be more destructive to both yourself and society at large. All things being equal, forgiveness is probably the healthier option of the two.
 

2distracted

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It gives you peace.
Psychologically speaking, it is a way of fixing unresolved issues bouncing around inside your skull and lowering your quality of life.
So it can be recommended whether you are a believer or not, even if only out of enlightened self-interest.

Of course so does revenge to some extent, but it tends to be more destructive to both yourself and society at large. All things being equal, forgiveness is probably the healthier option of the two.

Y s but

Forgiveness rightly understood
 
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