I’m hoping, and I still have hope, that it’s simply that you just don’t get it.

[Nickyjo]

But people such as Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Chuck Schumer, or Nancy Pelosi are the kind of people you need to support to show high quality character and morals, lol.....

A ridiculous OP, another....."mine are good, yours are bad" petty comparisons, anything to disparage Trump at all costs........it's literally all they have left.

How many felony counts do the democrats you listed carry with them? How many allegations and findings of sexual abuse? How many of their crooked universities and foundations have been shut down? List the times they have insulted and lied about immigrants and Blacks, the post election riots they have sparked.

 

[CLAX1911]

I’m not giving anyone a pass. I’m noting differences in equivalence you folks are refusing to DISCERN.

Generally speaking the man's personal life isn't relevant. Bill Clinton taught us that

That you think that (it’s called situational ethics) is decidedly part of the problem. Wrong is wrong.

It's too bad you don't get to vote for the perfect person that's not the way the world works.

If he lives a wring personal life the guy is a bad person. He’ll carry that into any place he is. If he lives a wring professional life he’s a bad person. He take that with him..etc.

So you want perfect to be the enemy of good that seems foolish to me.

Trump is a bad person. He’s been unethical in his personal life. He’s been unethical in his business life. Why do you not DISCERN he’ll be unethical in his political life.

Compared to who he's up against he's a saint. Do you realize why they don't release the Epstein files it's because all of those people there are in them.

Especially with everything he’s doing right before your eyes, or do you not see the crypto fraud and the scam of the real estate backdoor quid pro quo deals with foreign Princes?

No I don't know about that it sounds like it could easily be a lie. We're going to have to come with some very substantial proof because you people have been lying about this man for 10 years.

If my claiming to be someone who uses facts to DISCERN matters of import equivalent to claiming “godhood”, we can see evidence of what very well could be the problem. (Sorry, but you went there not me)

You want a perfect man to run for office I'm sorry Jesus is busy.

 

[CLAX1911]

That’s simply not a factual statement.

Bad people, when tested by circumstance, are apt to do the wrong thing. It’s in their nature.

But you haven't shown him to be a bad person seems like you like to believe he is but I don't share your belief

Good people, when tested by circumstance, are apt to do the right thing.

I give you the example of Pence. Perfect example. A weasel standard issue political hack, but at his core a good person.

No he wasn't.

When push came to shove and right and wring were on the line in a very real way, Pence did the right, Constitutional, thing.

False. Now that I know what caliber of politician you go for everything you say about ethics is just off the table.

Trump wouldn’t have. If fact, it was he who wanted to have Pence nullify an Electoral College vote.

Would that have been right or wrong to show evidence for your reasoning.

Proof is in the public record and the DISCERNMENT of its historical findings. Trumps record paints an accurate picture of who he is.

Yes it does your opinion seems to be colored by supporting neocons and this guy isn't a neocon and that upsets you I'm sorry but the neocon era is over.

 

[Pyrite]

For me, it's not even that Trump presents as being a "bad person". If we judged all great leaders by the moral standards of the general population, we would come to the conclusion that they were grossly immoral people. I'm positive many of the past presidents had the same exact appetites and moral failings that Trump has, we just don't know about them.

The thing that's particularly unsettling and disturbing about Trump is this insistence by him and his supporters that we should indulge in the sadism and cruelty that comes with governing. We can't simply have a program where illegals are deported, but the worst aspects of that program have to be emphasized and it has to be carried out in as publicly and inhumanely as possible and that, apparently, is funny.dw

"The thing that's particularly unsettling and disturbing about Trump is this insistence by him and his supporters that we should indulge in the sadism and cruelty that comes with governing. We can't simply have a program where illegals are deported, but the worst aspects of that program have to be emphasized and it has to be carried out in as publicly and inhumanely as possible and that, apparently, is funny.dw"

```````````````

This has struck me as well. A significant segment of our society has allowed itself - has chosen - to indulge in, to take satisfaction in, inflicting cruelty on others. Glorying in sadism.

I don't know how our society recovers from this degradation.

 

[Shrink726]

The way to deal with it is to elect Donald Trump so he can protect us from the Democrats.

Yeah sure. But who's going to protect you from him, the most amoral, brazenly corrupt politician in the entire history of our country?

Riddle me that, Batman.

 

[rickc]

Well
Thinking Americans know trump is not the person we need to run our federal government. They know he is against everything that makes America the greatest country on earth.

Trump will be gone in a few years. But those that elected him will still be here. If they truly believe in what trump is doing that does not bode well for the future of America. Those trump supporters are the real and present danger to America!

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Yeah sure. But who's going to protect you from him, the most amoral, brazenly corrupt politician in the entire history of our country?
Riddle me that, Batman.

Trump is not trying to violate the Second Amendment.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Would DeSantis have protected you from Democrats? Yes, he would have. Why did you pick the criminal?

He is hardly a criminal. The Democrats just abuse the law to try to destroy people who disagree with them. I didn't pick him however.

I did recognize that Trump was going to be our next president as soon as he won the New Hampshire primary in 2016. But when the 2016 Michigan Republican primary rolled around, I voted for John Kasich even though I knew he was destined to lose. It wasn't so much that I dislike Trump (I think he's all right). It was that I like John Kasich even better.

I didn't vote in the Republican primary in 2024. I voted for Joe Biden in the Democratic primary. It actually wasn't so much a vote for Joe Biden as it was a vote against neonazis.

I don't know if you are familiar with all the neonazis currently infesting the Democratic Party, but they were pulling a stunt to get people to vote against Joe Biden in the Michigan primary to punish him for supporting Israel. I guess there are a bunch of Islamic terrorists who vote in one of Detroit's suburbs or something, and they teamed up with the neonazis to pull this stunt against Joe Biden.

I'm not a huge fan of Joe Biden (he did do a few things that I agreed with, but mostly not), but I really really REALLY dislike neonazis. I'm also not terribly fond of Islamic terrorists. So when Michigan's 2024 primary came around I voted for Joe Biden as the lesser evil.

Voted all Republican in the general election of course.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Trump is a bad person. Sorry, that’s simply a truthful statement born out but the very public, well documented, actual facts of the very public record.

1) BUH BUH BUH LIBZ
2) policy not personality
3) Repeat 1 and 2

This is all you will get from MAGAs concerning Taco's immorality.

 

[Simpletruther]

Sorry, bulls#it. I clearly point to the acts he’s committed, and the findings upon them, that are proof of what I’m “accusing” Trump if.

What "findings"?

I ask yet again, was he ever charged or convicted about the university thing?

I never said he was charged with a crime. I stated, and correctly so, that if we’d fine what he has we’d be charged with a crime.

And what is your evidence of this? So far it's just your claims.

What I did say was he was sued, admitted clearly being culpable of fraud, and paid damages to make his victims whole. To the tune of $25 MILLION dollars to over SIX THOUSAND victims.

Sorry no. Settling out of court does not entail admitting guilt.

I dint rant. I state a case and present evidence from the public record, as I just did above. You, and others, don’t like what that public record clearly states, so you choose to ignore it. That won’t make it go away.

See above. That doesn't constitute proof of a crime. Which you claimed was a "fact"

There is an equivalence issue you MAGA folk simply refuse to DISCERN. You equate differently than most folks I know who, when they do comparative analysis, use things like facts and such to differentiate between the things being taken measure of.

It seems it is you ignoring the fact that there is no proof he committed a crime. Nor was he charged.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

The way to deal with it is to elect Donald Trump so he can protect us from the Democrats.

Sorry, but that is truly like electing a wolf to protect you from the foxes. That MAGA folks can't DISCERN that is precisely why I state they have a DISCERNING issue.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Sorry, but that is truly like electing a wolf to protect you from the foxes. That MAGA folks can't DISCERN that is precisely why I state they have a DISCERNING issue.

Not at all. Trump is not trying to violate the Second Amendment.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Jobs are evaluated based on the work product. There is not a word about accomplishments here.

I have stated a good deal about accomplishments.

Trump has accomplished hundreds of millions in crypto fraud while in office. He has also accomplished billions in backroom quid pro quo real estate deals with foreign Princes with the weight of they Oval Office behind him.

Are you able to separate the policy from the person?

I point out that the character and the ethicacy of the person makes vast difference with the policy emanating from the person. Especially at points where the rubber truly meets the road, like in a crisis. When the right thing is what is best for everyone concerned. the bad person will choose what it right for themselves and the expense of everyone else.

We can count on Trump to do precisely that, I promise you.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Generally speaking the man's personal life isn't relevant. Bill Clinton taught us that

The commision of fraud and cheating people for profit is NOT one's "personal life". This isn't a guy fooling around on his wife. It is a con artist bilking tens of thousands of victims for hundreds of millions of dollars. That MAGA folk don't perceive that difference is EXACTLY why I keep saying you have a DISCERNING problem.

Thank you for making my point for me so decisively.

It's too bad you don't get to vote for the perfect person that's not the way the world works.

Not while no one is demanding any better of the two major political parties. That is for sure.

 

[madman]

Trump is a bad person. Sorry, that’s simply a truthful statement born out but the very public, well documented, actual facts of the very public record.

He’s literally stolen hundreds of millions from tens of thousands of victims. He didn’t use a gun. He used lies, deceit, fraud. His tools were a bogus charity and university among other things. If you or I did such things we’d rightly be serving prison time for them. Trump, if he was where justice says he ought to be, could never be President. He’d have died in prison where Bernie Madoff, a similar unethical human being, wound up.

You MAGA folk need to know, because it’s true, if you knowingly support this behavior in leadership that there is something off in your character and personal ethics.

Im sorry, Hate me for saying so but I don’t say it out of hate. Not even dislike. You don’t try to save people you hate or dislike.

I’m hoping it’s just that you have gotten so bogged down in this us vs them thing that you’ve missed this very real, valid, point. That there is a battle of right vs. wrong, good vs. evil, ethical vs. unethical going in here buried in this quagmire of a political argument It’s not about the politics folks. Want what you want politically. Don’t let that cause you to lose sight of the character and ethics battle going on within it.

If you support a truly unethical and character challenged BAD PERSON to get what you want politically than something in YOUR ethics and character is off.

For yourself, your kids, your society; fix that before it’s too late.

business people are usually corrupt and immoral.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

But you haven't shown him to be a bad person seems like you like to believe he is but I don't share your belief

You mean my continually pointing out the VAST array of bad things he has done and been found culpable of both in the civil courts, the criminal court, and the court of public opinion hasn't been proof to you non-discerning types? The theft with the fraudulent charity and the bogus university, the finding of the court that he lied when he said he didn't sexually molest that women in a public dressing room, that he cheated his bankers and insurers, etc., etc., etc... None of any of that, and the so much more that is there to point to, isn't proof that he is a bad person?

 

[ModernDiogenes]

What "findings"?

I ask yet again, was he ever charged or convicted about the university thing?

{sigh} It is a matter of public record. Look it up. $29 Million to over 6000 victims. I said that if you or I had done the same thing WE would have been criminally charged. Same if WE had run a bogus charity. If WE had cheated banks and insurers out of hundreds of millions we would be doing VERY long stints in federal prison. Yet Trump walks between the raindrops.

And what is your evidence of this? So far it's just your claims.

Bogus. I point to the evidence. It is all documented in the public account of the unfolding of the actions being discussed. In black and while, in court documents, the transcripts, interrogatory and all other manner of documentation that makes up the vast public record on Donald J Trump.

Its not like this guy hasn't lived a VERY public life.

Sorry no. Settling out of court does not entail admitting guilt.

Yeah, folks always going around paying out hundreds of millions of dollars because they've done nothing wrong. {LOL}

No, they pay hundreds of millions in settlements when they know that fighting it to the end would cost them billions instead.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Not at all. Trump is not trying to violate the Second Amendment.

No, just dissolve your Constitutional Republic, fatten his wallet while lining his pockets and keep himself out of prison. Nothing serious.

 

[Michael Cole]

He is hardly a criminal.

He is. DeSantis is not. Haley is not. You chose the criminal.

That's the point of the thread: lack of discernment.

The Democrats

DeSantis isn't a Democrat.

just abuse the law to try to destroy people who disagree with them. I didn't pick him however.

I did recognize that Trump was going to be our next president as soon as he won the New Hampshire primary in 2016. But when the 2016 Michigan Republican primary rolled around, I voted for John Kasich even though I knew he was destined to lose. It wasn't so much that I dislike Trump (I think he's all right). It was that I like John Kasich even better.

I didn't vote in the Republican primary in 2024. I voted for Joe Biden in the Democratic primary. It actually wasn't so much a vote for Joe Biden as it was a vote against neonazis.

I don't know if you are familiar with all the neonazis currently infesting the Democratic Party, but they were pulling a stunt to get people to vote against Joe Biden in the Michigan primary to punish him for supporting Israel. I guess there are a bunch of Islamic terrorists who vote in one of Detroit's suburbs or something, and they teamed up with the neonazis to pull this stunt against Joe Biden.

I'm not a huge fan of Joe Biden (he did do a few things that I agreed with, but mostly not), but I really really REALLY dislike neonazis. I'm also not terribly fond of Islamic terrorists. So when Michigan's 2024 primary came around I voted for Joe Biden as the lesser evil.

Voted all Republican in the general election of course.

 

[SavannahMann]

Trump is not trying to violate the Second Amendment.

You do know there are other Amendments that are just as important right?

 

[CLAX1911]

You mean my continually pointing out the VAST array of bad things he has done and been found culpable of both in the civil courts, the criminal court, and the court of public opinion hasn't been proof to you non-discerning types?

I get it you are a neocon I'm not

The theft with the fraudulent charity and the bogus university, the finding of the court that he lied when he said he didn't sexually molest that women in a public dressing room, that he cheated his bankers and insurers, etc., etc., etc... None of any of that, and the so much more that is there to point to, isn't proof that he is a bad person?

TDS

 

[CLAX1911]

The commision of fraud and cheating people for profit is NOT one's "personal life".

Show the convictions please.

This isn't a guy fooling around on his wife. It is a con artist bilking tens of thousands of victims for hundreds of millions of dollars. That MAGA folk don't perceive that difference is EXACTLY why I keep saying you have a DISCERNING problem.

Then you can show convictions.

Thank you for making my point for me so decisively.

your point is orange man bad

Not while no one is demanding any better of the two major political parties. That is for sure.

You'll always be able to find faults with people

 

[ModernDiogenes]

I get it you are a neocon I'm not

Not at all. I keep telling you I am a classic fiscal conservative and moderate social politics. I have no desire for nation building, etc. You truly don't pay close attention.

TDS

Truly? You think that which is supported by the pubic record is "delusional"?

 

[Plasmaball]

There is and we saw it in FULL view with Obama, Hillary, Comey, Brennan, Clapper, and more. The more we learn about the depths and extent of that "unethical, evil, and wrong" - the more important this "battle" becomes.

Its amazong you can even post this nonsense with a what I assume straight face.

You are the problem with politics.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

your point is orange man bad

My point is the common sense appreciation of the likely predictable behavior born out by long term patterns. I person who is consistently bad is a person and can be counted upon to do bad things.