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The HS2 high-speed rail project could cost more than £80bn - almost double the current estimated cost of £42.6bn, a free-market think tank has said.The Institute for Economic Affairs (IEA) expects lobbying by local councils for extra infrastructure and design changes will inflate the cost.
It wants HS2 to be scrapped and the money spent on other transport schemes. Link.
Ex-Chancellor Alistair Darling has warned of a potential "nightmare" on England's existing railways if the multibillion-pound HS2 line is built.He was in the cabinet when the high speed rail scheme was approved in principle but has now changed his mind.
A rise in its budget from £32bn to £42.6bn would drain cash from other lines, he said. Link.
I think £80 billion on the East Coast, West Coast and link to Wales would do much more good for the whole country.
If you mean the East-West rail link, I agree. Constantly improving north-south links at the expense of improvement to infrastructure in and between regions means that the flight to the capital will continue, to no one's benefit.
Here is Spain there a major issue nowadays with the enormous web of privately-run, publically-funded toll roads, principally around Madrid, that are losing money had-over-fist because nobody is using them. They sucked up billions of EU subsidy and government match-funding then handed them over to private companies who contributed nothing to the construction costs. Those companies are now demanding government subsidies in order to keep these roads open.
Yea, the toll road here on the costa has had its prices go up by 40+%.. it costs over 7 euros by me now.. wtf? It use to be 5 euros during the summer (tourist prices), and 2.45 during the winter. And since there is a free alternative, which takes more time and is technically the most dangerous road in Europe, then most people choose this route.
What they should do, is nationalize the toll roads and lower the price.. bet they would suddenly see more traffic and maybe even a bit of profit.
Yes, I never use that road unless I'm driving for work. There's a newish toll road that runs from Vera in Almería to Cartagena in Murcia. I've used it a couple of times and you rarely see another vehicle on it.
If you mean the East-West rail link, I agree. Constantly improving north-south links at the expense of improvement to infrastructure in and between regions means that the flight to the capital will continue, to no one's benefit.
Here is Spain there a major issue nowadays with the enormous web of privately-run, publically-funded toll roads, principally around Madrid, that are losing money had-over-fist because nobody is using them. They sucked up billions of EU subsidy and government match-funding then handed them over to private companies who contributed nothing to the construction costs. Those companies are now demanding government subsidies in order to keep these roads open.
I used the Cercania system every day for a few months when i lived in Mostoles and they were normally packed by the time they got to the center (and this was during the winter), I dread to think what would happen to the Metro if they were abolished leading to even more overcrowding. I agree that the funding is dodgy as anything though.
As for the UK maybe we should be putting the money into making the fares slightly less ridiculous.
Well I smell someone speaking in someone's ear...
Let me guess, soon someone will suggest you invest it in new airports ..
The principle of a high speed rail road is a brilliant one. The problem as I see it, is that the cost is being pushed up and up for no reason what so ever. There is no transparency what so ever in why 45 billion or more is needed. Sure it will cost money, and lots of money, but 45 billion? --
The HS2 high-speed rail project could cost more than £80bn - almost double the current estimated cost of £42.6bn, a free-market think tank has said.
The Institute for Economic Affairs (IEA) expects lobbying by local councils for extra infrastructure and design changes will inflate the cost.
The £45 billion or even £80 billion includes covering cover for legal challenges in all the areas affected and by lobbying for extra changes by local councils. I think the actual building of a track itself will be around £32 billion. There have already been changes to the proposed route such as the requirement for ultra high speed trains to travel slowly through Sheffield because the track bends around a steelworks which MP's fought and won the defence for.
I "get" your claim regarding air travel however in this case I feel the money is better spent upgrading and or redesigning existing networks for higher speed.
LOL bending and high speed rail do not fit together...seriously this looks more and more like a political "price push up" than an actual price increase due to new tech.
Well to have a true highspeed rail, you need dedicated lines that are pretty much straight. So upgrading bendy old tracks where other trains run on.. not an option. They did this in the US and called it high speed rail, despite the average speed is like 80 miles an hour, with burst speeds on small areas of 200 miles an hour... because it uses existing rail tracks and has to wait for other traffic.
This is why the costs are likely to double. Even if there was expropriation, I'm fairly sure there would still be many costly legal battles.
Well, we are at a point (sorry) where as a country we either agree to fund a £32 billion build at real cost of £80+ billion or we work with what we have and improve it that way. I think there are enough major sections which we can use and develop. There isn't enough empty rural space to just bulldoze brand new straight line tracks.
The point of expropriation is to avoid the legal battles.
Look at what I wrote above.
Okay something does not make sense. I have been looking at the total cost of the French TGV network, and it is a hard number to find, but I found one from 1994.. 12 billion dollars. That is 19 billion dollars in today's money.. that is 12 billion pounds... for a network that is covers 3610 km at the time..
How can a rail system that is much less in distance cost so much more in the UK?
I know that, but legal battles help fund legal firms, keep your friends companies afloat etc. Why are so many MPs former lawyers?
Lobbying, environmental protests, trains built by overseas companies, labour costs, hostile UK populace, complacency, London centric thinking etc etc.
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