How to solve the military recruitment crisis

[Port & Starboard]

I suppose if you're in the rear with the gear, or far away from any two way range the military does offer those with little chance of making a tidy retirement nest egg outside the military pension plan a good career path....

To parents whose child is now represented by a triangle flag, to those who are missing limbs the 'plenty' of 2nd career might not be as 'plenty' or as rosy. To those with issues they bring back while trying to 'gift' the American way of life to those who still want to stone their wives for showing an ankle....
I guess the good or bad of the gig depends on what you do for GAWD n Country...

When we start making Congressmen & Senators carry the caskets off the jets at Dover AFB...................there will be fewer useless wars.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

Never gonna happen...

Vietnam.

Despite all the force multipliers, it came down to boots on the ground. And we found that conscripts were really bad for morale, even though they weren't the majority of troops.

And the worst collapse of "morale" was at home. The Vietnam war was lost at home: partly by the empathy of voters for civilians in Vietnam, but partly also by resistance to the draft. People who would be proud if their son had volunteered, were instead resentful that he had been drafted.

18 year olds got the vote, by Constitutional amendment. When what SHOULD have happened, is the draft being outlawed by Constitutional amendment.

 

[notquiteright]

When we start making Congressmen & Senators carry the caskets off the jets at Dover AFB...................there will be fewer useless wars.

Again, never will happen- BushII hid the caskets from 'we the people'... think anything will change.... Think those advocating for a draft will volunteer to escort the casket to the family... thank them personally for the loss of a cherished child????

Still, many service members are killed each year never to be at Dover. For those where they are civilians who dress funny and know how to salute, for those who are not as likely to build a good retirement in the civilian sector retirement from a REMF MOS does sound good. There are branches, MOSs where the odds of being sealed into an aluminum casket are much lower...
But sadly, everyone who enlists can't serve in the rear with the gear...

 

[bave]

For those griping about the military quality of life, it isn't that bad, particularly if you are single or married without kids.

You get a lot of allowances and perks, free healthcare, and a lot of tax breaks. Moreover, you get benefits outside of your service contract as well.

Here's the one thing that is hard to quantify, respect. The overwhelming portion of the population respects someone who served in the military. That turns into a far wider number of opportunities.

I would have never managed to get into my field and survive my professional field without my service record. People put their trust in me that no other twenty-something was going to get, period.

As to why we can't recruit? It's simple, lazy, fat drug addled, and entitled kids. Look at the PT requirements and how they have been lowered so much and the majority of kids still can't get close to them.

 

[Port & Starboard]

Still, many service members are killed each year never to be at Dover.

Was just a example.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

When we start making Congressmen & Senators carry the caskets off the jets at Dover AFB...................there will be fewer useless wars.

Before that even, how about returning the power to declare war to Congress, as specified in the Constitution?

No more AUMF's. The situations where the President HAS to react with military force, before the heads of Committee in Congress can give a thumbs up or thumbs down, are limited only to terrorist attacks on US soil. There is no justification for putting entire theaters of war under the President's control. In fact, I would draw the line there: if there is an attack on US soil, it's the President's business. If it's a retaliatory or aggressive strike beyond the borders, he/she needs consent of key members of Congress.

 

[notquiteright]

Vietnam.

Despite all the force multipliers, it came down to boots on the ground. And we found that conscripts were really bad for morale, even though they weren't the majority of troops.

And the worst collapse of "morale" was at home. The Vietnam war was lost at home: partly by the empathy of voters for civilians in Vietnam, but partly also by resistance to the draft. People who would be proud if their son had volunteered, were instead resentful that he had been drafted.

18 year olds got the vote, by Constitutional amendment. When what SHOULD have happened, is the draft being outlawed by Constitutional amendment.

Vietnam was 50's technology and doctrine. Conscripts fought WWI, WWII, and the Korean War. They are not bad for morale, the rudderless war planning, the ability to opt out for the middle class (Cheney is a perfect example), fight a major battle then never go back into the area again. Prop up a corrupt government so the native people don't want to fight their own war....
Don't need a Constitutional amendment, we the people are not going to stand for a draft unless there is a severe, TRUE national threat...

 

[Port & Starboard]

If you think “excellent” is a program where this percentage of doctors accept an insurance plan…ok?

I don’t find that “excellent”. And friends who have children that need to see specialists and can’t find ones that accept TriCare don’t either.

So?

Many doctors reject Medicare, Medicaid, and various Obamacare plans too.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

As to why we can't recruit? It's simple, lazy, fat drug addled, and entitled kids. Look at the PT requirements and how they have been lowered so much and the majority of kids still can't get close to them.

Is this the majority of kids who apply, or a majority of all kids?

See, I'm thinking that young people who aren't "drug addled" etc, may not be applying because for good reasons or bad, they think they can do better in the private sector.

 

[RogueWarrior]

You have got to be joking. The military is a glorified social program with palatial benefits and on teh job training.

If the government was doing such a great job, why does the Wounded Warrior Project charity exist?

 

[Port & Starboard]

Is this the young people WHO APPLY? Or does the military have some special insight into young people which no-one else does?

You think they don't know?

Actually.......my numbers were off. It's even worse.


Only about 13% of young people consider the Military a option today...................... if the link in the article is correct.

Addressing the U.S. Military Recruiting Crisis

The all-volunteer force may finally have reached its breaking point. During the first years of the recent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, many military

warontherocks.com

 

[justabubba]

The most recent data indicates that only 23-percent of Americans between the ages of 17 and 24 would meet the necessary qualifications to enlist.

https://www.ktsm.com/local/el-paso-news/only-23-of-americans-17-24-qualify-for-military-service/

 

[bave]

Is this the majority of kids who apply, or a majority of all kids?

See, I'm thinking that young people who aren't "drug addled" etc, may not be applying because for good reasons or bad, they think they can do better in the private sector.

I don't think we have the data for that honestly.

If you walk into a recruiter's office and you are 275lbs, they aren't even going to let you apply. Or if you are diabetic, asthmatic, etc. Then you would have to have a clean drug panel etc. A huge number of kids are disqualified without even applying, formally or otherwise, so your pool is so much smaller to begin with.

There has always been a portion who felt they could do better in the private sector, however in the past we have had a lot of people from poorer backgrounds see it as a way to improve their station in life, that has seemingly diminished immensely. Now, people seem to be scared of hard work, discipline, and responsibility more than previously.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

Vietnam was 50's technology and doctrine. Conscripts fought WWI, WWII, and the Korean War. They are not bad for morale, the rudderless war planning, the ability to opt out for the middle class (Cheney is a perfect example), fight a major battle then never go back into the area again. Prop up a corrupt government so the native people don't want to fight their own war....

I notice you're not disputing "the Vietnam war was lost at home." It really was: LBJ wanted to win (because he was a hardass) but he really couldn't increase conscription because Democrats wouldn't stand for it. Nixon cheated (bombing Cambodia) but he couldn't do that openly, because it was an act of war (widening the war.) Neither of them had the option to do whatever it took to win.

It could have been won, if the standards of winning were to totally devastate the North and then stand guard for decades. Actually occupying North Vietnam would have been a nightmare, so what was the US actually fighting for? An armistice, like Korea?

Don't need a Constitutional amendment, we the people are not going to stand for a draft unless there is a severe, TRUE national threat...

"We the People" overwhelmingly approved the Iraq war. We the People now admit we were wrong.

I'd like something a bit more lasting, and a bit harder to repeal. A Constitutional Amendment would also be a further step in outlawing slavery.

 

[BirdinHand]

Now, people seem to be scared of hard work, discipline, and responsibility more than previously.

Or they don't want to go and get shot at in the desert somewhere so they can get job training.

Heck, I've known individuals that joined the National Guard who had multiple war time deployments to the Middle East.

 

[bave]

Or they don't want to go and get shot at in the desert somewhere so they can get job training.

Heck, I've known individuals that joined the National Guard who had multiple war time deployments to the Middle East.

The overwhelming majority of man-hours getting shot at are people who specifically went out of their way to sign up for those units. Yes, in a war, everyone can get put in harms way but that's life and service to your nation. Now, I don't agree with how our military is used and what we get into (largely because of my time in) but that doesn't change the overal patriotic nature of service and the value it brings.

I go out of my way to hire veterans, many others do as well, both because of respect for their service and my confidence in their inherent responsibility and dedication.

I don't disagree with your overall point though, the overall percentage of total ******s in our society has skyrocketed.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Unless something changes, at some point the U.S. will have no other option than to bring back the draft.

To many obstacles have been placed which clog the path towards military service.

2022 numbers are the worst ever.

===========================

How to solve the military recruitment crisis

The All-Volunteer Force faces the worst military recruitment crisis in its history. There is no single explanation for this urgent problem

thespectator.com

Only a declared war would bring the draft back, period.

Anyone purporting otherwise is clueless.

 

[bave]

Only a declared war would bring the draft back, period.

There is no scenario where the US reinstitutes a draft.

First, the populace would revolt.
Second, the populace is largely incapable with their current bag of maladies.
Third, the conflict necessitating that kind of manpower would be nuclear before the draft.

 

[BirdinHand]

The overwhelming majority of man-hours getting shot at are people who specifically went out of their way to sign up for those units.

My friends that were trained in tanks and armor divisions, etc. wound up driving around in Humvees with piss-poor and/or no armor in the desert. Called back for multiple deployments. Oh, and then “stop loss” them from leaving.

They'd be the first to dissuade or discourage anyone from joining the military in any capacity.

If you want to figure out why the US military has a recruitment problem - perhaps look at the conditions we subjected soldiers to during the course of the past 2 decades of continual wars. And the absolute disgrace that has been mental healthcare, etc. once they returned home.

We treat our soldiers horribly - and don’t give them the tools necessary for their jobs - way too frequently…and then lament about why the military can’t get enough recruits.

I don't disagree with your overall point though, the overall percentage of total ******s in our society has skyrocketed.

I didn't say that at all. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

I don't think we have the data for that honestly.

If you walk into a recruiter's office and you are 275lbs, they aren't even going to let you apply. Or if you are diabetic, asthmatic, etc. Then you would have to have a clean drug panel etc. A huge number of kids are disqualified without even applying, formally or otherwise, so your pool is so much smaller to begin with.

There has always been a portion who felt they could do better in the private sector, however in the past we have had a lot of people from poorer backgrounds see it as a way to improve their station in life, that has seemingly diminished immensely. Now, people seem to be scared of hard work, discipline, and responsibility more than previously.

Providing opportunity to poor kids is actually something in favor of having a large volunteer military. They gain an income they can save from, specialist training and a degree if they want it, and the respect you mentioned earlier.

There must be a ton of young people who have never touched drugs, aren't overweight, and don't have a criminal record. They're not choosing the military for some reason and it could be as simple as the recruiting ads failing to appeal to them. Or actually scaring them off, by telling them all the good things about being in the military: it might seem "too good to be true."

There's a whole other thing though, it's generational reputation. Iraq and Afghanistan vets are proud of their service, as any combat vets are. But their children might not want to fight in any similar war. And I'm pretty sure that having an older relative in military service is the strongest indicator of whether a young person will volunteer.

 

[notquiteright]

Was just a example.

Still dodges 90% of what I typed...

I notice you're not disputing "the Vietnam war was lost at home." It really was: LBJ wanted to win (because he was a hardass) but he really couldn't increase conscription because Democrats wouldn't stand for it. Nixon cheated (bombing Cambodia) but he couldn't do that openly, because it was an act of war (widening the war.) Neither of them had the option to do whatever it took to win.

It could have been won, if the standards of winning were to totally devastate the North and then stand guard for decades. Actually occupying North Vietnam would have been a nightmare, so what was the US actually fighting for? An armistice, like Korea?



"We the People" overwhelmingly approved the Iraq war. We the People now admit we were wrong.

I'd like something a bit more lasting, and a bit harder to repeal. A Constitutional Amendment would also be a further step in outlawing slavery.

What I am disputing is conscripts were bad for morale.

I agreed the war was a rudderless hot mess. LBJ didn't want the sudden world stage conscience Republicans screaming 'who lost SE Asia' like they did about China.

We the people were lied to about why we should go into Iraq. Republicans bashed anyone who dared dispute the lies told- claiming they hated America. Curveball, yellowcake, centrifuge tubes for GW2.

A girl who was in the States claiming to have seen Iraqi soldiers snatching babies out of incubators and throwing them against walls for GW1.
I'd like to see an amendment to protect a woman's right to choose way before 'protecting' us from a draft...

 

[Hari Seldon]

Is any elected official anywhere calling for a draft or is it just DP nonsense?

DP nonsense.

 

[bave]

My friends that were trained in tanks and armor divisions, etc. wound up driving around in Humvees with piss-poor and/or no armor in the desert. Called back for multiple deployments. Oh, and then “stop loss” them from leaving.

To which my response would be, that's what you signed up for. Every war in history results in sub-optimal conditions and extensions.

If you want to figure out why the US military has a recruitment problem - perhaps look at the conditions we subjected soldiers to during the course of the past 2 decades of continual wars. And the absolute disgrace that has been mental healthcare, etc. once they returned home.

Oh, as though I didn't see it first hand? Again, this is what happens in war. When you sign up for the military you should realize that the uniform comes with some downside potential as well.

We treat our soldiers horribly - and don’t give them the tools necessary for their jobs - way too frequently…and then lament about why the military can’t get enough recruits.

Oof. Spoken like someone who has never seen theatre. The US military is the best equipped and trained military in the world, period, full stop. You can never have real time perfection in a war zone and you would have to be a naive idiot to believe otherwise.

I didn't say that at all. Don't put words in my mouth.

Got it. Kids afraid of danger, who need the perfection in training and equipment, in a warzone, aren't ******s? Look at those who volunteered for WW1 and WW2, in droves, in a disaster. Now, look at todays kids. Who would you rather deal with, at any level, the average 21 year old in 1944 or the average 21 year old in 2023? One of them is a fat, lazy, entitled, and likely drug user. The other, not so much.

Providing opportunity to poor kids is actually something in favor of having a large volunteer military. They gain an income they can save from, specialist training and a degree if they want it, and the respect you mentioned earlier.

There must be a ton of young people who have never touched drugs, aren't overweight, and don't have a criminal record. They're not choosing the military for some reason and it could be as simple as the recruiting ads failing to appeal to them. Or actually scaring them off, by telling them all the good things about being in the military: it might seem "too good to be true."

Sure, but the folks who are in that bucket are far less likely to need the opportunity. If you are healthy, drug free, no record then you are more likely coming from a good background and have advantages going into the private sector. However when you get into the bottom half of society, where enlistees have often come from, the rate of drug use/convictions has gone through the roof.

There's a whole other thing though, it's generational reputation. Iraq and Afghanistan vets are proud of their service, as any combat vets are. But their children might not want to fight in any similar war. And I'm pretty sure that having an older relative in military service is the strongest indicator of whether a young person will volunteer.

I don't disagree with your last. My issue is more with the kids who claim there are no opportunities, college costs are too high, and they can't get a good career path but would never consider the military and instead go to a shitbox university to get a worthless degree which sets them on a ruinous path of life.

 

[bave]

We the people were lied to about why we should go into Iraq. Republicans bashed anyone who dared dispute the lies told- claiming they hated America. Curveball, yellowcake, centrifuge tubes for GW2.

Revisionist history. It wasn't just the GOP who was on the war-wagon. It was pretty damned broad.

 

[notquiteright]

Revisionist history. It wasn't just the GOP who was on the war-wagon. It was pretty damned broad.

I was awake for this. Bashing anyone who disputed the 'facts' Neo-Cons presented. Congress busting French wines, Freedom Fries. Attacking democrats who didn't leap to arms. I remember, my memory isn't revisionist. The GOP went to great lengths to create a false narrative... Gen Powell at the UN with 'yellow cake', buying Curveball's story that the Germans didn't buy, calling galvanized tubes centrifuge tubes....