How To Justify Capitalism?

[bave]

No attempt at communism on a national scale has been democratic. Democratic socialism has been implemented on a sub-national scale and is working where it has been.

Again, all the other times had it wrong, you got it right, and you figured out a way to subdue basic human nature.

The closest humanity has come to your model has resulted in more human suffering than any other experiment in human history. You didn't get enough the last time millions died and you want to give it another shot?

All the while living in hypocrisy. You had no problem learning how to use the system, become more valuable, increase your earnings and then use those earnings to your own benefit while declining to actually spend any time or resources in advancing an economic system that you ramble about aimlessly on the internet incessantly.

 

[Questerr]

Are you comparing meth to a 1000 acre tract of private property?

Two people voted this away.
Luckily, Bruen may fix things so that you can own you own machine gun.

Are you going to be addressing the questions in post #459?

What's the threshold for when a government can vote away property rights?

I will answer your questions when you admit you lied about the Soviets being democratic.

 

[Questerr]

Again, all the other times had it wrong, you got it right, and you figured out a way to subdue basic human nature.

All other times were not democratic.

Are you saying there isn't a significant difference between democracy and authoritarianism?

 

[Questerr]

Again, all the other times had it wrong, you got it right, and you figured out a way to subdue basic human nature.

The closest humanity has come to your model has resulted in more human suffering than any other experiment in human history. You didn't get enough the last time millions died and you want to give it another shot?

All the while living in hypocrisy. You had no problem learning how to use the system, become more valuable, increase your earnings and then use those earnings to your own benefit while declining to actually spend any time or resources in advancing an economic system that you ramble about aimlessly on the internet incessantly.

When exactly did humanity "come close to my model"?

 

[bave]

All other times were not democratic.

Are you saying there isn't a significant difference between democracy and authoritarianism?

I am saying that there is no scenario where a large group of people voluntarily give up their property rights and live in an equality outcome situation. Top performers and capital will leave and the system will collapse. If you imprison people in the system, they will only perform at the minimum level with no motivation to perform better.

Why did you get those certificates and additional training? So you could make more money. In your world that motivation won't meaningfully exist. The top and the bottom will be similarly compensated, unless you are part of the power structure, at which point you will live like a king.

 

[bave]

When exactly did humanity "come close to my model"?

Every single time Marxism or Communism was tried. They all started out the same way, with the same idea, your parrotings. It was all about the common man, the worker, equality and it always ended up the same way.

 

[Questerr]

I am saying that there is no scenario where a large group of people voluntarily give up their property rights and live in an equality outcome situation. Top performers and capital will leave and the system will collapse. If you imprison people in the system, they will only perform at the minimum level with no motivation to perform better.

Why did you get those certificates and additional training? So you could make more money. In your world that motivation won't meaningfully exist. The top and the bottom will be similarly compensated, unless you are part of the power structure, at which point you will live like a king.

Who said anything about an "equality outcome situation"?

And who said that in my system all compensation is similar?

 

[Questerr]

Every single time Marxism or Communism was tried. They all started out the same way, with the same idea, your parrotings. It was all about the common man, the worker, equality and it always ended up the same way.

My system hinges on democracy. Democracy is at its core. Which time was Marxism or Communism tried where democracy was at its core?

 

[Rucker61]

What's the threshold for when a government can vote away property rights?

I will answer your questions when you admit you lied about the Soviets being democratic.

They said they were. Isn't that what you're claiming for your plan?

 

[Questerr]

They said they were. Isn't that what you're claiming for your plan?

No they didn't. A "republic" is not synonymous with democracy. The Soviet Union did not claim to be democratic nor were they democratic.

Admit you lied and I'll address your other questions.

 

[braindrain]

When you work for Walmart pay you can't afford Patagonia.

And the taxpayers have to subsidies those wages.

Corporations didn't move manufacturing to China to offer consumers lower prices. They moved for greater profits

You think the only people who shop at Walmart are those that make Walmart pay. How naive

They moved there because the cost of labor is much lower and you can’t compete with products made with cheap labor if you are paying American labor wages.

Because Americans care more about prices then quality.

 

[Rucker61]

No they didn't. A "republic" is not synonymous with democracy. The Soviet Union did not claim to be democratic nor were they democratic.

The US is a republic, and we've been told for yonks that republics are democracies are the same. Is it the "socialist" part that your plan has in common with the USSR?

Admit you lied and I'll address your other questions.

I actually don't give a rat's ass what you address.

 

[Questerr]

The US is a republic, and we've been told for yonks that republics are democracies are the same. Is it the "socialist" part that your plan has in common with the USSR?

I actually don't give a rat's ass what you address.

Have I claimed for years that republics are democracies? The US is a democracy and a republic. They aren't mutually exclusive. A republic can also be a dictatorship. Lots of dictatorial republics exist all over the world.

If you want me to answer your questions, admit you lied about the Soviet Union being democratic. My plan hinges on democracy. I know you are probably ignorant of this, but there isn't just one form of socialism. There are lots of them and "my" socialism has basically nothing in common with the USSR.

 

[noonereal]

Solid rebuttal sport



*I* can afford to live anywhere in the country with ease. He was raised there in the 80's. It was a ghetto then, and sorta is now.



One of the programs he went to was in fact Columbia, but not for residency/fellowship.



Lol. This is something a loser would say. There are three Ivy degrees in my home right now. Now quota love here either.



I never said anything of the sort and am frankly confused how you think I said anything of the sort.



No, I have seen in first hand, repeatedly.



I sacrificed a ton of free time. Time with my family. I almost certainly played a negative role in my health at times.



I love it, too smart for you and suddenly I am a Trumper? Stop being a punch line.

I lived in NYC in the 80s, my cousin lived there. He was interning at Columbia Presbyterian after graduating from Harvard. Medical degree from Baylor.
Yeah, I know what I am taking about unlike your posts that thinks its all "hard work."

The hardest job I ever had i was exempt from minimum wage, ot and basically every worker protection.
The easiest job I ever had put me in the top 2%.

You can't afford to live in Manhattan. Face it. No need to make shit up you know nothing about.

Lots of studies have been done on this. Look at the data.

Luck and who you know are far more impactful than is hard work. Fact.

As to your great great great grand parents nonsense.
America was differant then. My great grandparents got here about 1900.
Same deal. They worked and my great grandmother wound up owning the valley.
Helped tons of family to come here.

Nothing special about that. Come here from Honduras today and see how that works out.

You don't know what hard work is. But that us off the point.

 

[Peacenik]

As opposed to what other system in practice, Peacenik?

A better system would be Democratic Socialism with a bigger more powerful government. That would be preferable to poorly regulated exploitative capitalism coupled with a legally corrupted government firmly in the control of big money. There should be good rules and the rules should be well enforced.

Good = what is beneficial to society. Bad = what is detrimental to society.

Society must take preference over individual freedom. Without order we are reduced to nothing more than dog eat dog and warlords. We kind of have a lord society as it is. The lords being those with big enough money to corrupt our government and bend it to their will.

Now look at us. We've got a billionaire who thinks his money is so powerful and he is so special that the law doesn't even apply to him.

 

[Rucker61]

Have I claimed for years that republics are democracies? The US is a democracy and a republic. They aren't mutually exclusive. A republic can also be a dictatorship. Lots of dictatorial republics exist all over the world.

Are you the final arbiter of language here? If society claims for years that republics are democracies, shouldn't you go along?

If you want me to answer your questions, admit you lied about the Soviet Union being democratic. My plan hinges on democracy. I know you are probably ignorant of this, but there isn't just one form of socialism. There are lots of them and "my" socialism has basically nothing in common with the USSR.

The Soviets claimed to be democratic. That's my point.

Actually, your ideas aren't even entertaining anymore. I'll come back in 200 years when you may have actually been successful.

The entire premise of this thread is moot. You're just wasting your six figure talents here.

 

[braindrain]

Then I become homeless and starve to death. That would be the coercion that forces me to participate.

People not giving you what you want is not coercion

 

[Questerr]

Are you the final arbiter of language here? If society claims for years that republics are democracies, shouldn't you go along?



The Soviets claimed to be democratic. That's my point.

Actually, your ideas aren't even entertaining anymore. I'll come back in 200 years when you may have actually been successful.

The entire premise of this thread is moot. You're just wasting your six figure talents here.

Society has claimed that? There aren't dozens of republics that are dictatorships in the world?

Source for your claim that the Soviets claimed to be democratic?

 

[Questerr]

People not giving you what you want is not coercion

For instance if society refused to give capitalists the ownership rights they want?

 

[noonereal]

Solid rebuttal sport



*I* can afford to live anywhere in the country with ease. He was raised there in the 80's. It was a ghetto then, and sorta is now.



One of the programs he went to was in fact Columbia, but not for residency/fellowship.



Lol. This is something a loser would say. There are three Ivy degrees in my home right now. Now quota love here either.



I never said anything of the sort and am frankly confused how you think I said anything of the sort.



No, I have seen in first hand, repeatedly.



I sacrificed a ton of free time. Time with my family. I almost certainly played a negative role in my health at times.



I love it, too smart for you and suddenly I am a Trumper? Stop being a punch line.

Another point.
The people who "sacrifice" when they come here to get ahead are not scarrificing a damned thing. They are living better than they were in the old country as they were able to save.
That is far differant from giving up what you are accustomed to to get ahead. People are simply not engineered to do that. That is bullshit.

You need to stop repeating rhetoric that makes you feel good and do some academic work. Your posts will benefit.

 

[braindrain]

For instance if society refused to give capitalists the ownership rights they want?

You mean the ownership rights they have payed for.

 

[Questerr]

You mean the ownership rights they have payed for.

If I buy stolen goods do I own them?

 

[Super Chief]

We all know that capitalism is a system of exploitation.

The further up the food chain one is the more they benefit from the exploitation of others.

Jesus would never approve.

But Jesus isn't here.

We all have to justify our part in it somehow.

Thoughts?

My thoughts....

Will this mean that somebody who believes like you should be donating their laptop or other device used to post here to somebody who is "lower on the food chain" so that they don't feel exploited?

Will folks who follow YOUR way of thinking give up everything THEY have, or is your appeal for social fairness only directed at people who you feel don't deserve the fruits of their own labor and/or success?

Just curious?

 

[bave]

I lived in NYC in the 80s, my cousin lived there. He was interning at Columbia Presbyterian after graduating from Harvard. Medical degree from Baylor.
Yeah, I know what I am taking about unlike your posts that thinks its all "hard work."

For someone claiming to know what they talk about, physicians don't intern, they do a residency or a fellowship. Your first PGY is your "intern year".

The hardest job I ever had i was exempt from minimum wage, ot and basically every worker protection.
The easiest job I ever had put me in the top 2%.

Pretending that is true for a moment, the exception doesn't make the rule.

You can't afford to live in Manhattan. Face it. No need to make shit up you know nothing about.

I lived in Manhattan, in Tribeca, and owned my own home there. Tribeca is *slightly* more expensive than the Heights. Please, 'splain more to me.

Lots of studies have been done on this. Look at the data.

Luck and who you know are far more impactful than is hard work. Fact.

Actually, no. All the data suggests that your financial outcome is going to be predicted primarily by your marital status, having children in a stable marriage, criminal record, and educational level more than anything else. Tons of studies have been done on this, anyone who has ever studied basic economics would know this, guess that's not you though. Oh wait, you already demonstrated that it isn't you.

As to your great great great grand parents nonsense.
America was differant then. My great grandparents got here about 1900.
Same deal. They worked and my great grandmother wound up owning the valley.

Are you ok? Do you need help? This is the second time you started rambling about something I never even remotely mentioned.

Nothing special about that. Come here from Honduras today and see how that works out.

Again, my wife came to this country as a penniless refugee who didn't speak the language. English is her *third* language. She went to premier schools in the US, became a sub-specialist physician (in her own right) and would have been in the top 1% even without me.

What part of that was luck or who she knew? What part of it was grueling hard work and determination? Then note the same thing, more or less, happened for a large chunk of her family. Again, what was the driving factor?

You don't know what hard work is. But that us off the point.

I'm sorry things aren't working out for you and you can't stay on topic or even respond to *actual* statements I made. However what I will tell you is that I can guarantee I worked harder than you and achieved more. Guarunteed.

Seriously, 45,000 posts in 4 years and change and you are going to tell me you are a hard worker? lul.

 

[braindrain]

I lived in NYC in the 80s, my cousin lived there. He was interning at Columbia Presbyterian after graduating from Harvard. Medical degree from Baylor.
Yeah, I know what I am taking about unlike your posts that thinks its all "hard work."

The hardest job I ever had i was exempt from minimum wage, ot and basically every worker protection.
The easiest job I ever had put me in the top 2%.

You can't afford to live in Manhattan. Face it. No need to make shit up you know nothing about.

Lots of studies have been done on this. Look at the data.

Luck and who you know are far more impactful than is hard work. Fact.

As to your great great great grand parents nonsense.
America was differant then. My great grandparents got here about 1900.
Same deal. They worked and my great grandmother wound up owning the valley.
Helped tons of family to come here.

Nothing special about that. Come here from Honduras today and see how that works out.

You don't know what hard work is. But that us off the point.

Oh look our resident genius is also rich.

But if course other people couldn’t do as he does and afford to live in manhattan.

Do you think anyone believes your BS.