How to ban guns without firing a single shot!

[jaeger19]

It would be for anybody who has the knowledge, background record, abilities and mental health to pass it. No more difficult than standing in line at the DMV.

And you lie again. You already admitted it would be way more difficult than standing in line at the dmv. .

So let’s just stick to this.
STOP LYING .
Do you have to show mental competence at the dmv?
No.
Finger prints? No
Doing an intensive driving safety course and doing a driving test for competency? No .

Yet all these things you want for a firearm license.
So stop lying and start with acknowledging that your requirements will be much more time consuming and expensive than “standing in line at the dmv”

Let’s start with you stating THE TRUTH first once .

But it would be excruciatingly difficult for anybody who doesn't. Just like it would be difficult for somebody who doesn't know how to drive to get a driver's license. Clearly some of these would need to be monitored more closely. Especially mental health.

Not sure why you're obsessed with this. I assume it's because YOU would find it difficult to pass.

Let me tell you one thing: when I posted this the first time on another forum, I didn't have that point about the license. This was suggested by a pro-gun poster. I thought it was very reasonable.

In any case, whatever you think this "lie" is, is irrelevant to the point that it would work!

 

[Feynman Lives!]

There is no constitutional authority for Federal red flag laws.

Huh? If there is constitutional authority for STATE red flag laws, there is constitutional authority for....

Never mind. This is the dumbest excuse I've heard so far. And that's a lot!

 

[Feynman Lives!]

And you lie again. You already admitted it would be way more difficult than standing in line at the dmv. .

Of course! So is getting a driver's license if you don't know how to drive!

The only reason this post are of any value is that it demonstrates to any independent reader the ABSURD nonsense these guy come up with to avoid attempting to rebut ANY of my proposals.

 

[RF667799]

Huh? If there is constitutional authority for STATE red flag laws, there is constitutional authority for....

Never mind. This is the dumbest excuse I've heard so far. And that's a lot!

Couldn't get your thoughts together for a rebuttal, obviously.

You haven't considered that the jury is still out on red flag laws being constitutionally compliant.

Neither have you considered that the federal government is constitutionally limited in ways the states are not, except when it comes to rights that have been incorporated to the states.

 

[RF667799]

Of course! So is getting a driver's license if you don't know how to drive!

The only reason these posts are of any value is that it demonstrates to any independent reader the ABSURD nonsense these guy come up with to avoid attempting to rebut ANY of my proposals.

A driver's license is required to use public roads with a motor vehicle. Not to purchase, possess, or use a motor vehicle on private property.

 

[CLAX1911]

Huh? If there is constitutional authority for STATE red flag laws, there is constitutional authority for....

Never mind. This is the dumbest excuse I've heard so far. And that's a lot!

A federal government that can willy-nilly disarm people for any reason it likes is a direct route to dictatorship.

 

[CLAX1911]

A driver's license is required to use public roads with a motor vehicle. Not to purchase, possess, or use a motor vehicle on private property.

Also you can purchase a vehicle and have someone else drive it I drove a vehicle for somebody for a number of months. The owner didn't need a license I did.

 

[CLAX1911]

Of course! So is getting a driver's license if you don't know how to drive!

Driving in traffic is a very complicated thing. Even people who do it professionally have accidents.

If you really think you need to be trained not to blow your own brains out or somebody else's you probably not only should you be around guns shouldn't be around anything sharper than a boiled egg.

The only reason these posts are of any value is that it demonstrates to any independent reader the ABSURD nonsense these guy come up with to avoid attempting to rebut ANY of my proposals.

You don't robot proposals you make counter proposals or reject them. You're really not in a position declare something absurd.

 

[RF667799]

Driving in traffic is a very complicated thing. Even people who do it professionally have accidents.

If you really think you need to be trained not to blow your own brains out or somebody else's you probably not only should you be around guns shouldn't be around anything sharper than a boiled egg.


You don't robot proposals you make counter proposals or reject them. You're really not in a position declare something absurd.

LOL @ sharper than a boiled egg.

 

[Feynman Lives!]

You haven't considered that the jury is still out on red flag laws being constitutionally compliant.

If they're not... they're not... But this poster claiming that the constitution doesn't apply to state laws is something even YOU might consider complete nonsense.

 

[RF667799]

If they're not... they're not... But this poster claiming that the constitution doesn't apply to state laws is something even YOU might consider complete nonsense.

Post rejected on the basis of selective editing of another member's post.

 

[Feynman Lives!]

A federal government that can willy-nilly disarm people for any reason it likes is a direct route to dictatorship.

If you had READ my proposals, you would have known that my proposals disarm NOBODY.

 

[Feynman Lives!]

Driving in traffic is a very complicated thing. Even people who do it professionally have accidents.

So is operating a gun. But people who can demonstrate a basic knowledge are less likely to have them.

 

[RF667799]

If you had READ my proposals, you would have known that my proposals disarm NOBODY.

If I take away gasoline and your ability to buy more, and take away oil, filters, and spare parts- then I have de facto taken away your ability to use your car. I mean, it's probably on blocks in your backyard anyway...but see what I'm saying?

 

[CLAX1911]

If you had READ my proposals, you would have known that my proposals disarm NOBODY.

That's normally how it starts you can't go directly to the extreme you have to make people think it's a good idea then once you get them there you disarm them all you have to do is not be completely ignorant when it comes to history.

Sorry your proposal is rejected. No point in debunking it it's like debunking the flat Earth's opinion on how this head works no point he's wrong from the get-go just like you.

 

[CLAX1911]

So is operating a gun.

No it's not. Maybe don't talk about something you have no experience in.

But people who can demonstrate a basic knowledge are less likely to have them.

A requirement of demonstrating basic knowledge is a s*** test to have your rights.

It would be far more important to society for you to be licensed to speak so let's do that with the First amendment first.

 

[rahl]

Huh? If there is constitutional authority for STATE red flag laws, there is constitutional authority for....

Never mind. This is the dumbest excuse I've heard so far. And that's a lot!

This is why you shouldn’t discuss topics you know nothing about.

 

[rahl]

If you had READ my proposals, you would have known that my proposals disarm NOBODY.

So your proposal to ban “assault weapons” doesn’t disarm the tens of millions of people who own them?

 

[Maidenrules29]

Ok. All this has been explained and I will attempt for one final time to explain it again to you.

You have refused to recognize that teaching children not to handle guns is different from hunter safety course.
You conflate two programs that have entirely different purposes. Hunter safety involves, as you know, discussion of firearms (care and feeding), regulations, hunting culture, funding of conservation programs... which essentially promotes the hobby of hunting. Since hunting is primarily with firearms, essentially this hobby promotes firearm ownership and use. Hunter safety is not equivalent to teaching Eddie Eagle caution about guns. Essentially, hunting promotion is firearm promotion and promoting firearms increases the prevalence of firearms in America. As an example, firearm death and injury increases during hunting season.

The rest of your rant does not address the points I have made which you refuse to assimilate and you have chosen to distort. More firearms add to the death and injury in America and, since promotion of hunting promotes firearms, that hobby contributes to the firearm violence problem.

As concerns "gun safety" for both children AND adults. There is no evidence that these programs impact significantly the storage of and risks to children of firearms. I have posted multiple studies in support of my position. You have posted claims that short term impact exists for some education, but no evidence that there is an impact on overall reduction of problems from firearm storage. You have danced around the importance of these programs which you know very well will not allow adults to reliably trust unsupervised young children around loaded firearms. Handguns remain hypnotically attractive to young children (especially boys) and NO amount of safety training has long term and reliable impact on children in a fashion that prevents the threat from firearms to children. Rationally, the American Academy of Pediatrics acknowledges that fact and states that NO firearms is the safest home. I believe is useless to waste school time on extended "gun safety" (which you might call "hunter safety") because it is futile and as firearms become a part of school education, that prominence becomes a firearm promotion campaign.

Even training for adults, as currently structured, is likely useless to impact habits about secure storage of firearms (RAND corp study).

The entire overt agenda of the NRA is to promote firearms, reduce firearm regulation, and object to safe storage and Eddie Eagle feeds into that goal.

If you cannot understand this repeated message, there is no need for further discussion.

When talking about kids and firearms safety and how it is taught, and even if it is taught, you have to break it down into segments according to demographics. If we broke down all of the incidents of children being injured or killed by a firearm in the home, it is important to note what type of household situation they are in. Without researching for any studies on the subject, I'm pretty sure that more than 75% of all children being injured or killed by a firearm in the home has to do with their parents being involved in criminal activity. If we look at households where neither parent in the household has any type of criminal record or is involved in criminal activity, I'm sure that incidents of death or injury from firearms to their children is very, very low. Put it this way, do common criminals and/or gang members teach their kids gun safety? or do they just leave guns around the house willy nilly? Hell, they probably teach their kids to "grab that gat and smoke any fool if Im not here".

 

[jaeger19]

Of course! So is getting a driver's license if you don't know how to drive!

Except if you do know how to handle firearms safely it’s STILL not like simply standing in line to renew your drivers license.

So you just keep lying.

The only reason this post are of any value is that it demonstrates to any independent reader the ABSURD nonsense these guy come up with to avoid attempting to rebut ANY of my proposals.

Actually you are right , your posts are valuable because they show how absolutely ABSURD your ideas are and how much you have to lie to try and support them.

you’ve just gotten caught lying that getting a gun license will be just like standing line at the dmv.

So. Let’s talk about how much more difficult.

Tell us all how you expect the person to demonstrate competency with firearms and what exactly does being competent mean.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Huh? If there is constitutional authority for STATE red flag laws, there is constitutional authority for....

Never mind. This is the dumbest excuse I've heard so far. And that's a lot!

Under what constitutional authority would the Federal government be authorized red flag laws?

Commerce clause? The commerce clause is how the Feds can regulate commercial firearms sales and interstate private party sales but NOT intrastate private party sales.

State red flag laws work because of the 10A. Let me remind you of it.

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

You really don’t understand how Federal laws work, do you?

 

[JMB1911A1]

If they're not... they're not... But this poster claiming that the constitution doesn't apply to state laws is something even YOU might consider complete nonsense.

That is not what I said. I said that the FEDERAL government has no authority for red flag laws.

But keep lying about what I said. It is a good look for you.

 

[Spock]

When talking about kids and firearms safety and how it is taught, and even if it is taught, you have to break it down into segments according to demographics. If we broke down all of the incidents of children being injured or killed by a firearm in the home, it is important to note what type of household situation they are in. Without researching for any studies on the subject, I'm pretty sure that more than 75% of all children being injured or killed by a firearm in the home has to do with their parents being involved in criminal activity.

The majority of gun owners surveyed admit that the store firearms unsecured and many children in firearm households know how to access firearms regardless of storage technique.

Gun Safety Programs Do Not Prevent Children from Handling Firearms, Rutgers Study Finds

When it comes to teaching gun safety to children, it does not seem to work. Kids – especially boys – who come in contact with a gun, no matter what they have been told, are too curious not to pick it up, according to a Rutgers study. The only way to keep kids safe is to lock guns up or not have...

www.rutgers.edu

If we look at households where neither parent in the household has any type of criminal record or is involved in criminal activity, I'm sure that incidents of death or injury from firearms to their children is very, very low.

I doubt that. But, provide the data.

Put it this way, do common criminals and/or gang members teach their kids gun safety? or do they just leave guns around the house willy nilly? Hell, they probably teach their kids to "grab that gat and smoke any fool if Im not here".

The error is to believe that most children can be reliably taught to be around loaded firearms and resist the temptation to play with the guns.

 

[rahl]

The majority of gun owners surveyed admit that the store firearms unsecured and many children in firearm households know how to access firearms regardless of storage technique.

So what?

The error is to believe that most children can be reliably taught to be around loaded firearms and resist the temptation to play with the guns.

The data shows they can be. It’s why such a small percentage of children are killed by firearms.

 

[CLAX1911]

The majority of gun owners surveyed admit that the store firearms unsecured and many children in firearm households know how to access firearms regardless of storage technique.

How often do children find their parents' guns and use them I don't think it's very often.

Gun Safety Programs Do Not Prevent Children from Handling Firearms, Rutgers Study Finds

When it comes to teaching gun safety to children, it does not seem to work. Kids – especially boys – who come in contact with a gun, no matter what they have been told, are too curious not to pick it up, according to a Rutgers study. The only way to keep kids safe is to lock guns up or not have...

www.rutgers.edu

I doubt that. But, provide the data.

The error is to believe that most children can be reliably taught to be around loaded firearms and resist the temptation to play with the guns.

Depending on how old the child is playing with a gun can be deadly and within a certain age they understand that.