How To Argue Theism Effectively

[Questerr]

Like I say, you bore me asking the same leading questions.

God didn't really send me here to talk, he told me I need to stop trying to convince you people right from wrong, and to stop talking politics.

He sent me hear to lead his army in the final battle between heaven and hell, here on Earth as you people call it.

I'm the Messiah ben Joseph, but just ben Joseph is fine for non-believers because it just means Son of Joseph, and Joseph was my fathers name here.

Way I've been told by the prophets, I die one final time in the battle of Armageddon, but that's really just a place in Israel where the battle takes place.

I lose my life, but win the war.

Later, not sure how long, I am resurrected by the Messiah ben David, but that is after this world ends and becomes the Kingdom of Heaven.

@Revelation You still think this guy claiming to be the Messiah had an "interesting experience"? Are you going to follow your resurrected "Messiah ben Jospeh"? Or is he a false messiah/prophet like David Koresh?

BTW, thank you for confirming you are a whackjob.

 

[Revelation]

@Revelation You still think this guy claiming to be the Messiah had an "interesting experience"? Are you going to follow your resurrected "Messiah ben Jospeh"? Or is he a false messiah/prophet like David Koresh?

no i follow Jesus.

and you?

BTW, thank you for confirming you are a whackjob.

yep, the bible calls it the 'foolishness of preaching'.

i don't expect you to understand. some day you will........it will be stunning.

 

[Questerr]

no i follow Jesus.

and you?




yep, the bible calls it the 'foolishness of preaching'.

i don't expect you to understand. some day you will........it will be stunning.

But you were quick to believe his experience until he gave details? Why is that? Why weren't you skeptical from the beginning as I am? I demanded actual evidence, you immediately agreed with him.

That says everything about the difference between us: you are gullible.

I won't believe anything the Bible says or accept it as an authority until someone can provide objectively verifiable evidence of its claims.

 

[nvflash]

@Revelation You still think this guy claiming to be the Messiah had an "interesting experience"? Are you going to follow your resurrected "Messiah ben Jospeh"? Or is he a false messiah/prophet like David Koresh?

BTW, thank you for confirming you are a whackjob.

You think I care even a little what you think with the weight on me?

At least I have an inventive imagination, something lacking in Goyim. Anyway, everything in the last 50 years have lead me to have utter faith in my conclusions and judging be events here of late the time is soon, so somebody ought know. So let all with ears hear, and all with eyes see.

If you are not right with God, work it out, he's your dad too, and he loves you. Satan has nothing for you but death, final and complete, spare yourself that if you can.

 

[Questerr]

You think I care even a little what you think with the weight on me?

At least I have an inventive imagination, something lacking in Goyim. Anyway, everything in the last 50 years have lead me to have utter faith in my conclusions and judging be events here of late the time is soon, so somebody ought know. So let all with ears hear, and all with eyes see.

If you are not right with God, work it out, he's your dad too, and he loves you. Satan has nothing for you but death, final and complete, spare yourself that if you can.

One day you will stop posting and somewhere there will be a news article about a person being involuntarily committed for believing they are the Messiah and committing an act of violence with their "army of God".

 

[nvflash]

One day you will stop posting and somewhere there will be a news article about a person being involuntarily committed for believing they are the Messiah and committing an act of violence with their "army of God".

zzzzzzzzz..................

Anyway, won't happen here, you'll have to read the Israeli newspapers. Do you think that I have not been jailed before for my beliefs?

Do you think Israel can jail a man who died protecting them from an army on their doorstep?

What will they jail David's corpse for the crime of defense?

You want verifiable proof, the time is soon these things will come to pass, tho you are not likely to ever understand it or know it long.

If you do not see these things come to pass, then you will know I am just a crazy person, well meaning as I maybe, but if you do see these things, what will you believe then.

Maybe within the next year, but surely before the end of the decade, my body grows old and I'll be too old to lead an army anywhere but the geriatric home.

 

[Revelation]

zzzzzzzzz..................

Anyway, won't happen here, you'll have to read the Israeli newspapers. Do you think that I have not been jailed before for my beliefs?

Do you think Israel can jail a man who died protecting them from an army on their doorstep?

What will they jail David's corpse for the crime of defense?

You want verifiable proof, the time is soon these things will come to pass, tho you are not likely to ever understand it or know it long.

If you do not see these things come to pass, then you will know I am just a crazy person, well meaning as I maybe, but if you do see these things, what will you believe then.

Maybe within the next year, but surely before the end of the decade, my body grows old and I'll be too old to lead an army anywhere but the geriatric home.

not sure what you are thinking.

i am interested in Bible Prophecy and Israel

• Israel will be fine, currently they are finishing the war Prophesied in Obadiah which is about gaza. gaza will be toast.
• 
  
• next is the Psalm 83 war with Hezballah and nearby countries, Israel wins.
• 
  
• the Isaiah 17 Damascus war, where Damascus is toast.
• 
  
• then Ezekiel 38 war with Russia and friends, russia loses.
• 
  
• finally we end with Armageddon.

is this basically what you see for the middle east and Israel or how do you see the next prophetic news?

 

[Daisy]

1) don’t insist science is lies, and/or a vast conspiracy against religion
2) don’t be condescending
3) don’t be childish
4) don’t be sanctimonious
5) don’t threaten
6) don’t try to frighten people
7) don’t use your religion like a hammer

lol...you should take your own advice...

 

[Sweden]

Because you are free to believe whatever you want.

I have faith that there’s life somewhere else in our universe besides Earth.
Why can’t that be “acceptable”?

Expecting that extra-terrestial life exists is not 'faith' but an opinion - which I share - based on reason. 'Faith' is blind belief based on wishful thinking unsupported by any evidence.

 

[Mithrae]

Provide verifiable empirical evidence for a god.

Full stop. That’s all they have to do.

You've outlined a particular epistemic approach there. We could contrast that approach (A) with a couple of alternatives:
A - Accepting things for which there is (some 'X' standard of) verifiable empirical evidence
B - Accepting things which are the most reasonable/likely given available information
C - Accepting things you're told by those more knowledgeable than you (eg. parents), unless and until you find sound reasons to challenge them

Can you provide verifiable empirical evidence to justify your approach over one of these others?

 

[Overitall]

Explain exactly and specifically what is “nonsense” about it?

I quote: "Best thing for theists to do is NOT argue at all."

It's nonsense for the simple reason that if theist followed your advice you'd have no one to challenge you. It's silly to want no one to challenge you on a debate board.

Do you suggest it’s perfectly reasonable to be condescending and childish when arguing for theism?

 

[butterfly]

How do you know your “personal relationship” isn’t some kind of delusion?

Muslims claim to have personal relationships with their god. How do you know they are wrong and you are right?

Who would think they were wrong and we were right? Muslims identify faith in the same God as Jews and Christians. All envision that same God differently.

 

[nvflash]

not sure what you are thinking.

i am interested in Bible Prophecy and Israel

• Israel will be fine, currently they are finishing the war Prophesied in Obadiah which is about gaza. gaza will be toast.
• 
  
• next is the Psalm 83 war with Hezballah and nearby countries, Israel wins.
• 
  
• the Isaiah 17 Damascus war, where Damascus is toast.
• 
  
• then Ezekiel 38 war with Russia and friends, russia loses.
• 
  
• finally we end with Armageddon.

is this basically what you see for the middle east and Israel or how do you see the next prophetic news?

Those are battles in the greater war that ends at the valley of Megiddon. Satan's armies vs the 12 tribes of Israel.

As far as I can say you are pretty much reading things right, but I'm not a prophet, so my skill you read these things is fast and loose.

Remember the two Tribes in Israel are Judah and Benjamin( Jews ). The remaining 10 Tribes known as Joe's are spend throughout the western world alliance. So the Western armies will gather to protect Israel not fight against it, but it's the final battle of good and evil, so good people gather to protect Israel and bad people gather to defeat her. Doesn't matter where they were born, or live now. If they believe their soul is marked and damned anyway they will fight with Satan's army, and if they believe in the God of Abraham they will fight to defend Israel.

Doesn't matter if you are a Muslim, Christian, or Jew, if you believe in the God of Abraham you will be called his people. Those are the 12 tribes of Israel, for the 12 sons of Jacob. Israel is not a nation on a map alone, it is the 12 sons of Jacob.

 

[Questerr]

You've outlined a particular epistemic approach there. We could contrast that approach (A) with a couple of alternatives:
A - Accepting things for which there is (some 'X' standard of) verifiable empirical evidence
B - Accepting things which are the most reasonable/likely given available information
C - Accepting things you're told by those more knowledgeable than you (eg. parents), unless and until you find sound reasons to challenge them

Can you provide verifiable empirical evidence to justify your approach over one of these others?

Using verifiable empirical evidence provides the most accurate results.

 

[Questerr]

Who would think they were wrong and we were right? Muslims identify faith in the same God as Jews and Christians. All envision that same God differently.

The Muslim and Jewish god is most definitely not the same god as Christians. Muslims and Jews don’t believe Jesus is god.

 

[Questerr]

Those are battles in the greater war that ends at the valley of Megiddon. Satan's armies vs the 12 tribes of Israel.

As far as I can say you are pretty much reading things right, but I'm not a prophet, so my skill you read these things is fast and loose.

Remember the two Tribes in Israel are Judah and Benjamin( Jews ). The remaining 10 Tribes known as Joe's are spend throughout the western world alliance. So the Western armies will gather to protect Israel not fight against it, but it's the final battle of good and evil, so good people gather to protect Israel and bad people gather to defeat her. Doesn't matter where they were born, or live now. If they believe their soul is marked and damned anyway they will fight with Satan's army, and if they believe in the God of Abraham they will fight to defend Israel.

Doesn't matter if you are a Muslim, Christian, or Jew, if you believe in the God of Abraham you will be called his people. Those are the 12 tribes of Israel, for the 12 sons of Jacob. Israel is not a nation on a map alone, it is the 12 sons of Jacob.

If I don’t believe in Jesus or god, are going to order your army to kill me?

 

[nvflash]

If I don’t believe in Jesus or god, are going to order your army to kill me?

No, only if you arm yourself and attack Israel in the valley of Megiddon.

That's pretty specific.

 

[Questerr]

No, only if you arm yourself and attack Israel in the valley of Megiddon.

That's pretty specific.

So if I resist the attempted imposition of an autocratic theocracy over the world, you will have me killed?

 

[nvflash]

So if I resist the attempted imposition of an autocratic theocracy over the world, you will have me killed?

If you armed yourself and attacked Israel at the valley of Megiddon.

Otherwise I'll be too dead to care and by the time I return all the evil people will be gone. Won't be any need of anymore killing, the lion will lay with the lamb.

Hunger, greed, homelessness, war, sickness, death, all will be things gone from man.

Won't be much need of David after that, but God lets me liger anyway. I imagine I'll retire to my home and only give advice when asked. I do not imagine I'll venture more than 20 miles from my home, as I really have there everything I need and music is close by, good food, and fun people.

Do come down and see for yourself someday.

 

[butterfly]

The Muslim and Jewish god is most definitely not the same god as Christians. Muslims and Jews don’t believe Jesus is god.

I said they perceive God differently, but it is the same God: Yahweh, the LORD, Allah, same God.

 

[butterfly]

If I don’t believe in Jesus or god, are going to order your army to kill me?

Not all Christians see the Revelation of John as a preview of future history with the millennial lying ahead of us. No armies.

 

[Questerr]

I said they perceive God differently, but it is the same God: Yahweh, the LORD, Allah, same God.

The same god can’t be Jesus and not Jesus at the same time.

 

[Questerr]

Not all Christians see the Revelation of John as a preview of future history with the millennial lying ahead of us. No armies.

The poster I was replying to believes they are the Messiah who will lead gods armies.

 

[butterfly]

The poster I was replying to believes they are the Messiah who will lead gods armies.

I know. And I disagree that's what is being told in Revelation.

 

[butterfly]

The same god can’t be Jesus and not Jesus at the same time.

God isn't Jesus. To Christians God is God just as with Jews and Muslims. Christians add the Spirit of God and Jesus the Savior as parts of the triune godhead. Thus, they view the nature of God differently. But God is still God--creator of all, source of all, knower of all, all powerful, all wise. Not all Christians would put it that way, but that picture of God is still very mainstream in Christianity.